Opinions of the new BASS Open's format

[1simplemann]

Have you guys seen the new Open's format? Instead of 3 Open"s per division.(North,south,and central) BTW Where's the West division?, there will be a Central and Eastern division w/ 4 Open's per division and a championship of the 2 divisions. Sounds great. Not!  Most of the Opens are in the southern half of each division. 1 Open out of 8 in the North and once again 0 events in the West. If any of you guys want a shot at the Classic, You'd better have deep pockets and a lot of time on your hands regardless of where you live. If you live out West, you'd better buy Lucas Oil grease by case because your gonna need it for all the miles they expect you to put on your trailer. LOL Seriously though, when is BASS is gonna wake up and make these things feasible to fish for everybody in the country and not just the Southeast? Aren't the Open's supposed to be about angling ability and not financial/time commitment ability?

[Oregon Native]

They never have been to partial to "Out West".  I fished BASS many years ago when they were out west but didn't really care for the pro on pro formula.  Guess their reasoning was not much participation or whatever...."it's there show"

 

[RichF]

It's a step on the "right" direction for BASS but a wrong one for the majority of amateur anglers.  The only thing this new format does is provide more of an advantage to established touring pros looking for an extra chance at the Classic or re-qualification into the Elites.  I think it's safe to say that BASS makes the majority of their money from the Elites so it only makes sense for them to do all they can to keep those guys around.  They're a sure thing when it comes to ponying up the cash for entry fees.  

 

I get that it's a business but BASS needs to wake up.  What are they gonna do when their poster boys all retire? Sure there are a few good young guns mixed in, but the mainstays are all in the same year class or older.  I can't imagine the pool of incredibly wealthy but also extremely talented bass anglers is very deep.  The future looks bleak to me if BASS keeps up with their current business plan.

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, RichF said:

It's a step on the "right" direction for BASS but a wrong one for the majority of amateur anglers.  The only thing this new format does is provide more of an advantage to established touring pros looking for an extra chance at the Classic or re-qualification into the Elites.  I think it's safe to say that BASS makes the majority of their money from the Elites so it only makes sense for them to do all they can to keep those guys around.  They're a sure thing when it comes to ponying up the cash for entry fees.  

 

I get that it's a business but BASS needs to wake up.  What are they gonna do when their poster boys all retire? Sure there are a few good young guns mixed in, but the mainstays are all in the same year class or older.  I can't imagine the pool of incredibly wealthy but also extremely talented bass anglers is very deep.  The future looks bleak to me if BASS keeps up with their current business plan.

Their "poster boys" don't need the opens to requalify for the Elites the majority don't anyways. I'm not a business man by any means so I could very well be off in left field here, but I'm guessing an overwhelming majority of the open anglers are looking to make it to the Elites so I don't really understand where you're coming from when you say the "future looks bleak for BASS". 

 

Somebody brought up having to be a millionaire or extremely wealthy to fish the Elites a few months back on Bassmaster and it was either Jordan or Matt Lee quickly responded and said neither were wealthy. He went on to say that their dad was a Veterinarian but hasn't footed the bill for their career choice. Brandon Palaniuk just won AOY, while speaking right after winning AOY, if I remember correctly he said he sold his boat he won at the Federation championship to foot the bill for his first year on the Elites. Gerald Swindle last years AOY did construction, hardly wealthy. 

 

There are some great examples that totally put the misconception that you have to be wealthy to fish the Elites to bed. It would help. But these three examples (and there's way more) show that if you put in the long days, hard work, skill, and a little luck anyone can do it. There's no denying that most who try fall short and end up broke, which is where being wealthy would help, but your bank account isn't going to buy your way in or keep you in, because there are hundreds of anglers across the country waiting for you to slip up and have their shot. 

[Megastink]

It's always been my dream to qualify for the Elites. Still is. But after this rule change, I realize it won't happen through the opens, at least for me.

 

My new plan: begin a path to qualify for the FLW Tour. If I'm successful, it's much more affordable and the season is shorter. I'm a working man, and the tour is the "Working Mans' Tour". 

[RichF]

3 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

Their "poster boys" don't need the opens to requalify for the Elites the majority don't anyways. I'm not a business man by any means so I could very well be off in left field here, but I'm guessing an overwhelming majority of the open anglers are looking to make it to the Elites so I don't really understand where you're coming from when you say the "future looks bleak for BASS". 

 

Somebody brought up having to be a millionaire or extremely wealthy to fish the Elites a few months back on Bassmaster and it was either Jordan or Matt Lee quickly responded and said neither were wealthy. He went on to say that their dad was a Veterinarian but hasn't footed the bill for their career choice. Brandon Palaniuk just won AOY, while speaking right after winning AOY, if I remember correctly he said he sold his boat he won at the Federation championship to foot the bill for his first year on the Elites. Gerald Swindle last years AOY did construction, hardly wealthy. 

 

There are some great examples that totally put the misconception that you have to be wealthy to fish the Elites to bed. It would help. But these three examples (and there's way more) show that if you put in the long days, hard work, skill, and a little luck anyone can do it. There's no denying that most who try fall short and end up broke, which is where being wealthy would help, but your bank account isn't going to buy your way in or keep you in, because there are hundreds of anglers across the country waiting for you to slip up and have their shot. 

You're right that the mainstays will likely not have to re-qualify because they consistently perform well enough to stay put.  Obviously, many anglers competing in the Opens are looking for a chance to make the Elites, so sure, there will be fresh recruits.  I say it looks bleak because it appears (to me anyway) that BASS puts nearly all of its effort, attention, backing, whatever, etc. into a handful of anglers that won't be in the sport forever. Not only will they not be around forever, they will all likely be leaving at or around the same time.  

 

Of course not all Elite anglers are wealthy.  I know many come from humble beginnings and have worked extremely hard to get where they're at.  It's incredibly respectable (Steve Kennedy comes to mind).  However, I'm not sure if you can compare the Swindle/VanDam/Reese/Iaconelli era to today's, from a cost/difficulty perspective.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to say participating, qualifying, and just affording to play the game was quite a bit more manageable back then.  Boats didn't cost 80K, trucks, weren't 40K, and fuel was much cheaper.  I'm not saying it was easy, just that it was likely much easier than today.  So yes, your examples of the Lee bros and Palaniuk do indeed show that you don't "have" to be wealthy to make it, but this new Opens format will make it much more of a necessity.  Here's why I think that...

 

It was already incredibly difficult to compete in them when you factored in the cost and the time off necessary to complete a circuit, but it was manageable, provided you had a decent job that gave you three weeks vacation (which I'd say is pretty standard).  I don't know of many "regular" jobs that are going to give you the now five weeks of vacation time necessary to complete a circuit.  That will eliminate a lot of folks from participation even if they have the cash to buy in.  Let's say you can muster up the vacation time. Only having two divisions will not only require another $1500 entry fee, it will also increase travel costs, drastically in my estimation (Champlain to Okeechobee for example), which again will likely deter potential participants. 

 

I just don't see the pool of potential anglers waiting to "slip in" growing with this new format.  Just look at prior Opens rosters.  Year after year, they're mostly filled with Elite pros, FLW tour pros, and a handful of repeat amateurs (many of whom, I'm guessing, have deep pockets).  And it's not like the fields are always full.  I certainly don't think the future of competitive bass fishing is bleak but I definitely don't think these new changes will help grow higher level event participation within the BASS organization.

 

13 minutes ago, Megastink said:

It's always been my dream to qualify for the Elites. Still is. But after this rule change, I realize it won't happen through the opens, at least for me.

 

My new plan: begin a path to qualify for the FLW Tour. If I'm successful, it's much more affordable and the season is shorter. I'm a working man, and the tour is the "Working Mans' Tour". 

I was likely going to fish at least one Open next year for the first time on the "Pro" side.  Definitely not happening now.  I'm guessing FLW is going to see a drastic influx in participation next year.  You better sign up EARLY!!

 

Good Luck!

[12poundbass]

18 hours ago, RichF said:

You're right that the mainstays will likely not have to re-qualify because they consistently perform well enough to stay put.  Obviously, many anglers competing in the Opens are looking for a chance to make the Elites, so sure, there will be fresh recruits.  I say it looks bleak because it appears (to me anyway) that BASS puts nearly all of its effort, attention, backing, whatever, etc. into a handful of anglers that won't be in the sport forever. Not only will they not be around forever, they will all likely be leaving at or around the same time.  

 

Of course not all Elite anglers are wealthy.  I know many come from humble beginnings and have worked extremely hard to get where they're at.  It's incredibly respectable (Steve Kennedy comes to mind).  However, I'm not sure if you can compare the Swindle/VanDam/Reese/Iaconelli era to today's, from a cost/difficulty perspective.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to say participating, qualifying, and just affording to play the game was quite a bit more manageable back then.  Boats didn't cost 80K, trucks, weren't 40K, and fuel was much cheaper.  I'm not saying it was easy, just that it was likely much easier than today.  So yes, your examples of the Lee bros and Palaniuk do indeed show that you don't "have" to be wealthy to make it, but this new Opens format will make it much more of a necessity.  Here's why I think that...

 

It was already incredibly difficult to compete in them when you factored in the cost and the time off necessary to complete a circuit, but it was manageable, provided you had a decent job that gave you three weeks vacation (which I'd say is pretty standard).  I don't know of many "regular" jobs that are going to give you the now five weeks of vacation time necessary to complete a circuit.  That will eliminate a lot of folks from participation even if they have the cash to buy in.  Let's say you can muster up the vacation time. Only having two divisions will not only require another $1500 entry fee, it will also increase travel costs, drastically in my estimation (Champlain to Okeechobee for example), which again will likely deter potential participants. 

 

I just don't see the pool of potential anglers waiting to "slip in" growing with this new format.  Just look at prior Opens rosters.  Year after year, they're mostly filled with Elite pros, FLW tour pros, and a handful of repeat amateurs (many of whom, I'm guessing, have deep pockets).  And it's not like the fields are always full.  I certainly don't think the future of competitive bass fishing is bleak but I definitely don't think these new changes will help grow higher level event participation within the BASS organization.

 

I was likely going to fish at least one Open next year for the first time on the "Pro" side.  Definitely not happening now.  I'm guessing FLW is going to see a drastic influx in participation next year.  You better sign up EARLY!!

 

Good Luck!

I agree with you it's getting more difficult but it can be done. And maybe the FLW route is a better way to go to start out (I don't know I don't follow the FLW closely). College bass fishing is exploding and BASS played a big role in that. Only time will tell.

[BassNJake]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think that it is great.

It is another move towards making the Elite series the very best of Professional fishing.

This prevents some local who is on the right bite at the right time to win and you're in.

This prevents a touring pro from fishing his home lake and getting a berth into the classic.

This will mean to qualify for the Elite series you will need to be consistent over 5 events not just 3.

 

This new format eliminates those who are not financially able to fish the Elite series.

This will eliminate the guys that qualify and then drop out after a couple events because they dont have the sponsors.

If you are serious about making it to the Elite series you better have the financial backing to do so.

It's 40 grand in entrance fees + hotels/camping for a week + gas for 3 days of practice and at least 2 days of fishing + food and that does not account for the travel it took to get to the event.

If you make a check that barely covered your expenses for that week.

 

There is a reason that there are all these guys trying to jump ship from FLW to BASS.

It's sponsorship dollars.

The same sponsor will pay more for an Elite angler than they will for an FLW angler.

I think it was Brent Ehrler that said something about it when he was making the switch and he's someone that won over 2 million fishing FLW.

 

An FLW win = $125,000 for an entry fee of $4500

A BASS win = $100,000 for an entry fee of $5000

Both a Classic win or a Forrest Wood Cup win = $300,000

So it costs less and you can win more money but every year several FLW pros make the switch.

 

Anybody can fish FLW, you pay, you play.(there are some that get priority but not enough to fill all 150 spots)

You have to qualify to make the elites and you have to finish well enough throughout your first 2 years to stay qualified. Otherwise, you have to go back to the opens to qualify.

 

I think in the last 10 years there has been a clear separation between the #1 tour and the #2 tour.

With the new rules for the Opens, I think it makes the divide even greater.

To qualify for the Elites you will need to be consistent over 5 events at different lakes using different techniques.

I do believe there are some excellent fisherman in FLW, however they are BIG fish in a small pond.

 

John Cox has qualified for the Classic and for the Elite series and here is what he said...

Cox hasn’t written off fishing the Elite Series should he qualify for it. It will come down to which schedule is more favorable to him.

“I like fishing new places, but I do much better on lakes that I’ve been to several times,” Cox said. “It’s almost like having a home field advantage.”

Thats a big fish in a small pond answer if you ask me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BassNJake]

I also want to add I think there should be a Western Open division.

However, I have read that when there was stuff out west the support was minimal.

Supply and demand comes into play and then figure that against the cost benefit ratio and BASS has decided not to invest into that market when it comes to tournaments.

 

[WRB]

3 hours ago, BassNJake said:

I also want to add I think there should be a Western Open division.

However, I have read that when there was stuff out west the support was minimal.

Supply and demand comes into play and then figure that against the cost benefit ratio and BASS has decided not to invest into that market when it comes to tournaments.

 

B.A.S.S. Hasn't been supported by local communities, poor turn outs for the events, good angler participation with excellent fishing at the Columbia River, Lake Shasta, Califorina Delta and Clear Lake. There are Western Bass Opens, just not sponsored or sanctioned by B.A.S.S. although several Elites fish them. US Open at lake Mead is Oct 16-18 2017, for example.

Tom

[12poundbass]

23 minutes ago, WRB said:

B.A.S.S. Hasn't been supported by local communities, poor turn outs for the events, good angler participation with excellent fishing at the Columbia River, Lake Shasta, Califorina Delta and Clear Lake. There are Western Bass Opens, just not sponsored or sanctioned by B.A.S.S. although several Elites fish them. US Open at lake Mead is Oct 16-18 2017, for example.

Tom

What do you think is the reason for the lack of support and turnout? I still scratch my head when I hear you and others say it isn't supported out west. Is it anglers as well or mainly communities and spectators?

23 minutes ago, WRB said:

B.A.S.S. Hasn't been supported by local communities, poor turn outs for the events, good angler participation with excellent fishing at the Columbia River, Lake Shasta, Califorina Delta and Clear Lake. There are Western Bass Opens, just not sponsored or sanctioned by B.A.S.S. although several Elites fish them. US Open at lake Mead is Oct 16-18 2017, for example.

Tom

What do you think is the reason for the lack of support and turnout? I still scratch my head when I hear you and others say it isn't supported out west. Is it anglers as well or mainly communities and spectators?

[WRB]

Bass anglers support the events, no problem getting 300 boat entries, big problem getting spectator partipation at any bass fishing contest out west, the public isn't interested in fishing.

Tom

[1simplemann]

Rich F, You right on target. Before, A guy had to have decent job, 3 weeks vacation and a dream. Now he needs truthfully, a great job o, 5 weeks vacation (which is rare) and a dream. And also some angling ability in both cases. Also before IMHO, a guy had to live geographically near the Opens to be competitive. Now, a SE or midwest angler has the advantage. It's possible a Northern angler can be competitive but he is at a financial disadvantage when trying to reach the Big O in FL. Also a Western angler doesn't stand a chance. It would take him days to get to ANY of the scheduled events. Why BASS doesn't have a Western division is beyond me. It's simple. Divide the country in 4 or 5 sections and have a championship if you want . maybe add a few Classic for the additional Opens. I don't this format will last long. Also why do Elites get to fish the Opens anyway? I view the Opens as the Minor leagues and the Elites as the Majors. Open guys can't just jump in elite's They have to earn their way in. Elite's shouldn't be able to jump down a level just so they can have a shot at the Classic because they didn't qualify.

[SWVABass]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there away to qualify for the elites through the nation? Similar to the flw living the dream package? I have always wanted to fish the opens don't know if I will or not. Yes the new format makes it tough but you have to be committed if you want a shot at the big leagues. I disagree with the idea that elites can't fish the opens, it's an open just that open to any one. It's another chance for those guys to make a payday. Just my 2 cents 

[RichF]

@BassNJake,

 

I don't think the new format is a step in the right direction at making the Elites the "very best in bass fishing."  To me, it appears as though you're saying, as a prerequisite to becoming one of the best of the best, you need to be "financially able." That's just absurd.  There are plenty of "financially able" anglers that regularly compete in the Opens, who are just not that good.  Nowhere near Elite level. I've fished with several.  But, they will have an exponentially better chance at making the Elites simply because they can afford to play the game over and over each year versus the much better, but less "financially able" angler that saves every penny and vacation day for one shot (one season) at his/her dream. How does this promote the very best of the best?  You eliminate hundreds, if not thousands, of anglers fully capable of competing among the "Elites" simply because they can't afford to even try.

 

I totally get wanting to try and get rid of the local advantage/Classic berth dynamic.  Here's the thing, it was addressed by making the Classic berth available to winners ONLY if they fished all events in a circuit.  Was it perfect? Well, no.  But you're never going to get rid of the "local advantage."  I will certainly admit that the new format will be better at preventing this but there's still a problem...touring pros. They make up a decent portion of Opens anglers and will always have the advantage just about anywhere they go (not necessarily based on talent).  The Opens are held on basically the same waters every year.  On top of that, the FLW tour and Elite tour schedule many of those same bodies of water every year as well.  Those touring guys will have far more of an advantage over their non-touring competitors simply because they fish those place far more often.

 

You're are 100% correct about needing the financial backing if you choose to fish the Elites should you qualify.  I think we can agree that sponsorship dollars are crucial to anglers that aren't independently wealthy.  The problem for me is..how does an angler get the sponsorships that will help them thru the Elite schedule?  I would say you'd have to fish several high level tournaments and do well to get noticed.  That platform is the Opens.  With the new format, it's nearly impossible for anglers that are less financially able to compete regularly and gain the exposure needed to draw in potential sponsors.  You're just not going to get lucrative deals by fishing anything beneath this level.  So again, we're back to all the anglers that may not be that great but have the cash to play.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's 100% impossible for an average joe (who happens to be an incredible angler), with a modest income, to make and live out a dream in the Elites.  It can certainly happen, if the stars align.  I just think it's important to point out that competitive bass fishing has become less about  the "best of the best" and more about "the best with the most money."  There's a big difference there.  There's no arguing that BASS wants to make this a mainstream sport.  I'm just not so sure that can happen when you eliminate your potential stars before they even get a chance to shine.

 

@1simplemann

 

"Also why do Elites get to fish the Opens anyway? I view the Opens as the Minor leagues and the Elites as the Majors. Open guys can't just jump in elite's They have to earn their way in. Elite's shouldn't be able to jump down a level just so they can have a shot at the Classic because they didn't qualify."

 

I think this is spot on.  BASS wants to be a mainstream sport, but what other mainstream sport allows their pros to drop a level to compete against amateurs?  

[BassNJake]

11 hours ago, 1simplemann said:

 Also why do Elites get to fish the Opens anyway? I view the Opens as the Minor leagues and the Elites as the Majors. Open guys can't just jump in elite's They have to earn their way in. Elite's shouldn't be able to jump down a level just so they can have a shot at the Classic because they didn't qualify.

It is an open event, anyone can fish.

This is a way to qualify for the Elite Series as well.

If you have 2 sub par years fishing the Elite Series you lose your spot and have to re-qualify through the opens or BASS Nation.

 

I think it was Chad Pipkins(definitely could be mistaken) qualified through the opens the same year he would have been replaced on the tour. So he did not have to spend a year out of the Elite Series before re-qualifying.

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, BassNJake said:

It is an open event, anyone can fish.

This is a way to qualify for the Elite Series as well.

If you have 2 sub par years fishing the Elite Series you lose your spot and have to re-qualify through the opens or BASS Nation.

 

I think it was Chad Pipkins(definitely could be mistaken) qualified through the opens the same year he would have been replaced on the tour. So he did not have to spend a year out of the Elite Series before re-qualifying.

It was Chad Pipkins last year who did this. 

2 hours ago, RichF said:

think this is spot on.  BASS wants to be a mainstream sport, but what other mainstream sport allows their pros to drop a level to compete against amateurs?  

Golf does this with the U.S. Open. That's why they're called Opens. They're open to anybody. You have to qualify and it's extremely tough considering you're up against pros but it can be done. 

[BassNJake]

15 minutes ago, RichF said:

@BassNJake,

 

I don't think the new format is a step in the right direction at making the Elites the "very best in bass fishing."  To me, it appears as though you're saying, as a prerequisite to becoming one of the best of the best, you need to be "financially able." That's just absurd.  There are plenty of "financially able" anglers that regularly compete in the Opens, who are just not that good.  Nowhere near Elite level. I've fished with several.  But, they will have an exponentially better chance at making the Elites simply because they can afford to play the game over and over each year versus the much better, but less "financially able" angler that saves every penny and vacation day for one shot (one season) at his/her dream. How does this promote the very best of the best?  You eliminate hundreds, if not thousands, of anglers fully capable of competing among the "Elites" simply because they can't afford to even try.

 

 

 

Just want to make it clear, I am just giving my opinion.

Below I use you and your but I mean anyone that fishes the opens not you specifically.

I have always seen tournament bass fishing as 2 fold; having the skills and having the money.

One of the best fisherman I ever met fished out of a john boat, had 2 rods and a handful of lures.

Could he have competed against even the best local guys? I know he could have, he could catch a bass in a mud puddle.

However, we'll never know because he couldn't afford to fish in tournaments.

 

What I am saying is that winning an open doesn't dump enough sponsors in your lap to fish the Elite Series the next year.

Using your example of the person saving every penny and uses all their vacation time just to fish the opens.

What are they going to do next year, if they qualify?

Quit their jobs all of a sudden because of the financial windfall that comes with qualifying for the Elite Series?

 

If your are fishing the opens to make the Elite Series you better have sponsors already in place and then pick up more when you qualify.

 

Randall Tharp turned down 3 invitations to the Elite series because he was not financially able to afford it.

He had some sort of team sponsorship with FLW that allowed him to fish that trail.

Once he made a name for himself, he was encouraged to fish the elite Series by his sponsors.

https://www.bassmaster.com/blog/third-times-charm

 

 

If your fishing the opens to make the Classic who are you going to fish against when you get there?

The same pros that you are complaining about fishing the opens.

If you cant hang with a bunch of "financially able" anglers and a dozen or so pros, how are you going to hang in the biggest event in bass fishing?

 

Which pros do you want to eliminate from fishing the opens just the BASS guys or should the FLW guys be excluded as well? What about guys that fish Costa and BFL or BASS Nation?

 

BASS used to have a lot more guys that always donated and never really competed.

Now they have to stay qualified or re-qualify and that makes the tour more competitive top to bottom.

Not allowing the win and your in makes the classic more competitive because of the variety of lakes you have to fish to qualify for it.

 

 

[RichF]

1 hour ago, BassNJake said:

What I am saying is that winning an open doesn't dump enough sponsors in your lap to fish the Elite Series the next year.

I never said winning an Open will dump enough sponsors into an angler's lap.  I specifically said that an angler would need to fish several and consistently do well to attract sponsors.  The new Opens format will drastically hinder this for non-wealthy/non-established (more or less touring pros) anglers.  Yes, I've heard the argument of "how will a qualifying angler hope to fish in the Elites if they've barely met the financial and time commitment of the Opens?"  The fact is, some anglers would sacrifice it all if given that chance (Jamie Hartman comes to mind).  But that's beside the point anyway.  This is my problem..."What are they going to do next year, if they qualify?  Quit their jobs all of a sudden because of the financial windfall that comes with qualifying for the Elite Series?"  This is the problem with the sport.  If you qualify for the Elites, I'd say you're probably a pretty d**n good angler, agreed?  When the financial burden is so extreme, that most of these great anglers simply can't even take that opportunity...well that's a problem with the sport (in it's current form).  I reiterate...how can one say that this new Opens format is a move toward making the Elites the best in bass fishing if the majority of potential "bests" never get a shot, strictly because of financial reasons?

 

I'm not sure I see the Randall Tharp example as relevant within the context of this debate.  He had a good sponsorship deal with the FLW that allowed him to gain exposure to other sponsors who finally provided him with the financial backing to accept the Elite series invitation.  If anything, this is a huge aspect of my point.  He had the right platform in the FLW to give him the necessary exposure to sponsors who ultimately provided him the financial backing to pursue the Elites.  But in order for the average angler (to be clear, I'm using "average" to describe a very good angler that's not wealthy) to do that, he/she would need a platform that's at least somewhat reachable.  The Opens, in their new form, are no longer that.  I suppose then, the answer to this would be, fish the Costas/FLW.

 

Personally, I see fishing the Opens just for a Classic berth and fishing for an Elite invite as two separate animals.  I'm not even totally sure I'm on board with Classic berths being given out in the Opens (maybe for top anglers in points but certainly not for a win).  I'm in total agreement that eliminating the "win and in" will make the Classic more competitive.  I'm viewing this through the perspective of mainstream sports (which is what BASS is aiming for their organization to become).  A triple-A division should be the platform aspiring amateurs use to try and qualify for the big leagues, not for an arguably easier chance at a Classic berth for a seasoned Pro.  Think about this...Iaconelli and Ish didn't make the Classic this year.  That means they didn't perform all that well in the big leagues.  Why should they be allowed to drop down to a lesser league in order to try and re-qualify?  Sure you can argue that "just because they're Elite pros doesn't necessarily mean they'll win an Open" and "if you can't hang with a couple pros, how are you going to compete against them in the Classic?" Is there some truth in those arguments? Sure.  But just take a look at the Opens stats.  At least half of the top 12 at nearly every event is either an Elite or FLW pro.  There's a reason for that, and only half is that they are "better" than everyone else.  They tour for a living and fish these bodies of water EVERY year! That's almost like having homefield advantage on every lake you fish.  

 

Look, if BASS wants to bring bass angling into the world of mainstream sports, they have some major work to do, IMO.  If they wanna continue to run an elite club for a select few, that's completely fine too, just quit claiming to wanna make it a mainstream sport.  I'll just have to wait and show my prowess after I win the Powerball

 

[1simplemann]

Jake, you make some valid points. FLW pro's do fish the Opens and how can you restrict BASS pros but not the others? I'm not sure what the answer is. I do understand the concept that an Open is an Open and should be open to everybody. Maybe if a Classic berth wasn't on the line? As I'm typing this an idea came to mind. A pro division and an amateur division? Just throwing that out there. In my mind I still view the that Opens are for the guys trying to make to the next level. Triple A Minor leagues was a good analogy. Some Major league'rs do get sent down so AAA have to deal with it. So you are right that if a you can't handle a few Pro's at an Open then how do you expect to handle a full roster of them. I guess what bother's me about it that some of these guys voluntarily step down looking for that easy payday and/or that Classic berth. The guys that have to re-qualify don't bother me so much because they wouldn't be there if they didn't have to. the FLW guy's dont bother me so much either they are trying to find out if they are "Elite Material" or not. To me though, the bigger issue is the new format. I don't desire to fish the Elites so I'm not  trying to qualify. However, I do have that dream to someday fish the Classic. Notice I said fish it, not win it. 3 weeks vacation, some $$, some angling ability, a few great days on the water and it's a possible dream. I bet there are thousands out there just like me. My dream just got a LOT harder. Most likely it's out of my reach now because not only is a huge $$ commitment, but it's also a huge time commitment away from my family. I can't justify either to my family. The Opens are supposed to be a test of Angling Ability and nothing else. Now it's about financial ability, availability, and then angling ability. If a guy doesn't have all 3 then he shouldn't ever bother to apply. Also why is BASS is crying about turnout in the West, when anglers pay the fee's! the events are free to the public but the roster's are full. Are they losing money when they come West? Lot's of prime fisheries out here. A local guy here just caught 29lb in one day. smallmouth! 52lb for 2 days. If that's not world class, then I don't know what is. And that's in my home state. The Columbia River is Outstanding, Idaho has some lakes that are awesome at times. California has some amazing fisheries. All of these fisheries and several that I haven't mentioned could easily sustain a BASS Open. Why make guys travel half way across the country to fish an Open when there are plenty of excellent fisheries here in the West. Look at all the Pro's that have to move East just so they can compete. If they don't, they will get left behind.  I'm done for the night. I'll check in tomorrow

[OCdockskipper]

A couple of my thoughts/opinions on the above posts:

• I would argue that the Elite series has a healthy future.  Of the top 15 in the AOY this year, you had three anglers in their 20's (Wheeler, Lee & Connell), four anglers in their 30's (Palanuik, Ashley, Defoe & Feider), seven anglers in their 40's (Christie, Evers, Hackney, Combs, Ehler, Hartman & Swindle) and one at 50 (KVD).  I recall Hackney saying bass anglers prime is 35 to 45, so you only have 3 anglers past that prime, 5 in the middle and 7 still entering it.  Between the Opens, the College circuit and the nation system, they have a good feeder system to keep new & younger talent flowing in.
   
• I have heard the argument against Elite anglers fishing Opens and I find it to be sour grapes.  In baseball, bowling & poker (to name a few off the top of my head), the top professionals will compete in the leagues or divisions that feed the major league level.  To try to limit the field by excluding top talent is a weak way to compete.
   
• While I can't speak for the entire West, I can give some insight as to the lack of B.A.S.S. influence in Southern California.  Despite a population of over 23 million people, there is exactly one (1) Bass Pro Shop to cover the area from L.A. to the Mexican border.  You can bet Johnny Morris has crunched the numbers and figured out that despite the huge numbers of people, serious interest in the outdoors just does not exist in this area.  To further grind that down, a majority of folks who are interested in the outdoors here either fish the ocean for tuna or other species or the mountain lakes & streams for stocked trout.  Having fished for largemouth for over 40 years here, I find that difficult to believe, but it is the reality - there just aren't that many bass fishermen here & it is not even a blip on our cultures radar.  Brent Ehler led this years Classic for the first two days and there wasn't even a mention anywhere in his hometown paper (The Orange County Register).  I live in a neighborhood that has over 250 homes, all lakefront, and not a single person owns a bass boat (myself included).  I'd bet you couldn't go down a street in most southern parts of the country and not find at least 1 bass boat for every 10 houses.  Bass fishing is part of the culture in the south, hence it draws the biggest crowds despite having smaller population numbers.
  
   

[RichF]

In baseball, you get sent down to the minors because you're not performing at the top level (or you're rehabing an injury).  That's not the same thing as Ott Defoe signing up for his home lake Open and crushing everyone with his special boat.  He was already qualified for the Classic and certainly didn't have to re-qualify for the Elites.  

 

That being said, I don't even think the pros dropping down to fish the Opens bothers me all that much. It's the new format and cost of the circuit I really dislike.  Personally, I would prefer to fish against those guys.  I just don't think you can make an argument about top level talent competing when so few anglers that actually have massive talent will ever get a chance to show it, simply because of cost limitations.  It's just frustrating to hear: "the best in the world" and "top level talent" when that's simply not 100% accurate.  If people just labeled it what it really is, I wouldn't be so salty about it.  

[12poundbass]

8 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

A couple of my thoughts/opinions on the above posts:

• I would argue that the Elite series has a healthy future.  Of the top 15 in the AOY this year, you had three anglers in their 20's (Wheeler, Lee & Connell), four anglers in their 30's (Palanuik, Ashley, Defoe & Feider), seven anglers in their 40's (Christie, Evers, Hackney, Combs, Ehler, Hartman & Swindle) and one at 50 (KVD).  I recall Hackney saying bass anglers prime is 35 to 45, so you only have 3 anglers past that prime, 5 in the middle and 7 still entering it.  Between the Opens, the College circuit and the nation system, they have a good feeder system to keep new & younger talent flowing in.
   
• I have heard the argument against Elite anglers fishing Opens and I find it to be sour grapes.  In baseball, bowling & poker (to name a few off the top of my head), the top professionals will compete in the leagues or divisions that feed the major league level.  To try to limit the field by excluding top talent is a weak way to compete.
   
• While I can't speak for the entire West, I can give some insight as to the lack of B.A.S.S. influence in Southern California.  Despite a population of over 23 million people, there is exactly one (1) Bass Pro Shop to cover the area from L.A. to the Mexican border.  You can bet Johnny Morris has crunched the numbers and figured out that despite the huge numbers of people, serious interest in the outdoors just does not exist in this area.  To further grind that down, a majority of folks who are interested in the outdoors here either fish the ocean for tuna or other species or the mountain lakes & streams for stocked trout.  Having fished for largemouth for over 40 years here, I find that difficult to believe, but it is the reality - there just aren't that many bass fishermen here & it is not even a blip on our cultures radar.  Brent Ehler led this years Classic for the first two days and there wasn't even a mention anywhere in his hometown paper (The Orange County Register).  I live in a neighborhood that has over 250 homes, all lakefront, and not a single person owns a bass boat (myself included).  I'd bet you couldn't go down a street in most southern parts of the country and not find at least 1 bass boat for every 10 houses.  Bass fishing is part of the culture in the south, hence it draws the biggest crowds despite having smaller population numbers.
  
   

I think another reason there isn't a western swing is sponsorship. If the crowd isn't there no big company is going to pony up money to sponsor an event if there's only a slim chance at exposure and return.

 

What in the heck do people in California do in their free time? Look at the top 25 bass caught 3,4, maybe 5 bass on their aren't from California (I haven't looked in forever)! You guys have awesome largemouth and spotted bass fishing and only a handful are taking advantage of it. It's good for you guys who do fish, but sad for the state as a whole. 

 

Here in Michigan 5-6lb LMB are pretty big and something you'll only come across once a year maybe? Smallmouth are a different story, we've all seen the blimps A-Jay is pulling out of Lake Menderchuck on a weekly basis. You drive down my road alone,  1 mile all but 2 houses have a boat. It's Michigan and you're literally no more than 5 miles from a lake and at any spot in the state no more than 30 miles from a Great Lake so it's not apples to apples with California. It just boggles my mind bass fishing isn't bigger in California. 

[IndianaFinesse]

23 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Smallmouth are a different story, we've all seen the blimps A-Jay is pulling out of Lake Menderchuck on a weekly basis.

Is that the one that's right down the road from lake vanderchuck?

[12poundbass]

11 minutes ago, IndianaFinesse said:

Is that the one that's right down the road from lake vanderchuck?

Nope. The one down the road from Lake Vanderchuck is Lake MAnderchuck. Menderchuck and MAnderchuck people get confused all the time. It's pretty easy for me to tell them all apart from his videos by looking at the clouds. ?

I gave out too much info. A-Jay is going to kill me!