What is the true definition? Yes Another Ned Thread

[Cgolf]

Recently when I posted about having issues with tail grabbers with the Ned either Indiana of Team9 suggested I shorten the Zinkerz to catch those bass that are grabbing the tail. The issue I have with that is I thought having a small hook allowed the plastic to move more. Yes I could shorten it and then leave a 1/4" from the hook to the tail, and still be a Ned because of the hook size. What if I kept the 2.5" 1/2 Zinkerz and used a longer shank hook leaving again 1/4" from the hook to the tail? I accomplish the same thing keeping the same bait profile they hit before, but the second is not a Ned rig. I assume that in order jig weight, hook size, plastic size, jig shape, and finally plastic beyond the hook define whether or not a bait is a Ned rig. 

 

Since we no longer have the pinned Ned Thread, I really wish that @Team9nine would do a one post thread of the definition and then it could be locked and pinned. This would help a lot of us out, and also anyone new that comes here since this is becoming a hot rig on the tourney scene, though they aren't really tossing a true Ned rig, and I am seeing it a lot more on social media. Many companies are also marketing Ned heads that really don't fit the definition. 

[Raul]

How do you know they are bass and not panfish biting your bait ?

[smalljaw67]

Cgolf, every angler adapts a presentation to fit their needs and the Ned rig is no different. The difference is that a lot of anglers are adapting the rig in a way that it isn't a Ned rig but a shaky head or jig worm and there is a profound difference. A Ned rig will seldom be heavier than 3/32oz and the normal range is 1/32oz to 1/8oz with 1/16oz being the most popular size. The mushroom head jig is the standard as is a small 2.5" to 3" stick worm but a small ball head can work as well, the reason for the mushroom shape is that the bottom of the head is flat allowing the head to sit on top of the worm flush. The light weight and light tackle used to fish the rig makes it tough for power anglers to use as it is often referred to as a "no feel" type of technique so anglers accustom to heavier power oriented techniques tend you use heavier heads and bounce or hop the bait on the bottom which is a typical shaky head or jig worm approach. Ned rigs are either ticking the bottom or off the bottom and while there are retrieves that have the worm on bottom, they are normally pulled with a drift and not reeled. The places Ned rigs are used are more often open water or very sparse cover, and the reason is the fish that are suspended or cruising open water tend to be difficult to make bite which is why the smaller profile baits, when fish are in cover they can be made bite more traditional offerings like a worm fished on a heavier jig head or shaky head, so that is why you really don't need a weed guard with the technique, purists will tell you the fish that you are targeting with the rig aren't active and are light biters so a weed guard can hamper the rig more than help but if you find fish are in cover there is probably a better method to get them than a ned rig.

[HookRz]

My personal definition isn't based on the type of head or the bait as much as the light weight and "no feel" presentation. Like I've said a few times what most call a Ned Rig is just a short jigworm on a mushroom head. Fantastic bait, and very productive, but not true Midwest Finesse IMHO. 

[andywbass]

The Ned Rig, I believe should just be called a Ned JIG.  Rigs are generally made of several components--sinker(s), leader, snells, hook(s), beads, the bait (natural or artificial) and so on, such as a Carolina Rig, the famed Lindy Rig, Dakota Rig (bottom bouncer), and many others.

[Cgolf]

2 hours ago, Raul said:

How do you know they are bass and not panfish biting your bait ?

I am only 90% sure I can tell a bass from a panfish. What I feel are bass grab on and hang on and fight like a Smallie. I shore fish in the morning on the way to work and have caught smallies anywhere from 4" up to 20", I just take what I can get. Usually panfish will be a machine gun style hit, and the fight will be less than what I am seeing. With the number of smaller fish in the system it is very likely that I will catch smallies in the 7-14" range than a bigger fish, and the mouths on those little smallies are not all that big. I don't want to complain about the little guys too much because the smallies reproduce very well on this system 

[Cgolf]

5 hours ago, smalljaw67 said:

Cgolf, every angler adapts a presentation to fit their needs and the Ned rig is no different. The difference is that a lot of anglers are adapting the rig in a way that it isn't a Ned rig but a shaky head or jig worm and there is a profound difference. A Ned rig will seldom be heavier than 3/32oz and the normal range is 1/32oz to 1/8oz with 1/16oz being the most popular size. The mushroom head jig is the standard as is a small 2.5" to 3" stick worm but a small ball head can work as well, the reason for the mushroom shape is that the bottom of the head is flat allowing the head to sit on top of the worm flush. The light weight and light tackle used to fish the rig makes it tough for power anglers to use as it is often referred to as a "no feel" type of technique so anglers accustom to heavier power oriented techniques tend you use heavier heads and bounce or hop the bait on the bottom which is a typical shaky head or jig worm approach. Ned rigs are either ticking the bottom or off the bottom and while there are retrieves that have the worm on bottom, they are normally pulled with a drift and not reeled. The places Ned rigs are used are more often open water or very sparse cover, and the reason is the fish that are suspended or cruising open water tend to be difficult to make bite which is why the smaller profile baits, when fish are in cover they can be made bite more traditional offerings like a worm fished on a heavier jig head or shaky head, so that is why you really don't need a weed guard with the technique, purists will tell you the fish that you are targeting with the rig aren't active and are light biters so a weed guard can hamper the rig more than help but if you find fish are in cover there is probably a better method to get them than a ned rig.

I do customize it as well to the situation, but I know some of those changes move it to something else, shakey head or jig worm. The thing I am looking for to educate others and me on some of the more subtle points, is where is that line. The is it a Ned rig or not discussions can get interesting on here;) For the most part I have given up calling what I fish anything specific, just a jig and small plastic is what I toss a lot now. 

 

Do do have someone trying to get a gopher tackle order of 3/32 and 1/16 heads in for me with #2 hooks. Hoping he has better luck than others have had. Most mushroom head jigs on the market now are a #1 hook or bigger. I have read enough bad about the Zman heads that keep me away from them, and the cost is high knowing I will lose a lot of them on the river. 

3 hours ago, andywbass said:

The Ned Rig, I believe should just be called a Ned JIG.  Rigs are generally made of several components--sinker(s), leader, snells, hook(s), beads, the bait (natural or artificial) and so on, such as a Carolina Rig, the famed Lindy Rig, Dakota Rig (bottom bouncer), and many others.

I think it works, because they couple the jig with like three or so specific retrieves. So maybe the Ned system?

 

[OkobojiEagle]

I prefer one of the Charlie Brewer techniques... more fishing, less defining.

 

 

oe

[Russ E]

if you want the true definition of the ned rig. learn from Ned himself. just do a search for Ned Kahde. there are videos and blogs of him sharing the technique

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Weedwhacker
trying to obey the rules

[Team9nine]

4 hours ago, cgolf said:

For the most part I have given up calling what I fish anything specific, just a jig and small plastic is what I toss a lot now.

 

And that is probably the safest bet. "Ned Rig" is an ambiguous and ever changing term. It has been captured by Zman and the masses, and is constantly evolving. Even Ned himself has no control over the term. It has been interesting (and sad) watching the whole thing play out.

 

Quote

So maybe the Ned system?

 

 

Fortunately, there is a Ned system  It is called "Midwest Finesse," and it has more defined boundaries. The media hasn't been able to screw that one up yet, and probably won't. It is where Ned himself lives and plays, along with the rest of us 'originalists.'

[IndianaFinesse]

I'm not going to lay it out the way I have in the past.  That has not gone over well with some people taking it as being unnecessarily nitpicky, as opposed to what my goal is which is to help people utilize the system as effectively as possible, and in an attempt to keep the true definition. I pretty much state in the Basics of the ned rig thread what jighead/plastic/line/rod/retrieve etc is generally accepted by the Midwest finesse community as being the most conducive to catching the most bass possible, in the conditions commonly faced by anglers fishing Midwestern flatland impoundments (which I also wrote about in the above linked thread).

[Cgolf]

9 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

And that is probably the safest bet. "Ned Rig" is an ambiguous and ever changing term. It has been captured by Zman and the masses, and is constantly evolving. Even Ned himself has no control over the term. It has been interesting (and sad) watching the whole thing play out.

 

 

Fortunately, there is a Ned system  It is called "Midwest Finesse," and it has more defined boundaries. The media hasn't been able to screw that one up yet, and probably won't. It is where Ned himself lives and plays, along with the rest of us 'originalists.'

I am still trying in most cases. Right now I am down to using 1/16 minnow heads with a #2 hook because I am almost out of mushroom head jigs. If we can't get my next order from gopher, not sure where I am going to get a jig with a #4 or #2 hook, most Ned heads are on a #1 hook now. You guys that pour your own should start selling them.

8 hours ago, IndianaFinesse said:

I'm not going to lay it out the way I have in the past.  That has not gone over well with some people taking it as being unnecessarily nitpicky, as opposed to what my goal is which is to help people utilize the system as effectively as possible, and in an attempt to keep the true definition. I pretty much state in the Basics of the ned rig thread what jighead/plastic/line/rod/retrieve etc is generally accepted by the Midwest finesse community as being the most conducive to catching the most bass possible, in the conditions commonly faced by anglers fishing Midwestern flatland impoundments (which I also wrote about in the above linked thread).

I vaguely remember reading that thread and that is what I am talking about that should be pinned. I will risk the wrath of the mods by saying that I was bummed that the Ned thread was unpinned.

[MickD]

Why does it matter what we call it (Ned rig)  or what we are doing?

 

I also liked the pinned Ned series of posts because it gave a single place to find info on the Ned, or "Ned-lite," or "almost Ned," or . . .

[Cgolf]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

Why does it matter what we call it (Ned rig)  or what we are doing?

 

I also liked the pinned Ned series of posts because it gave a single place to find info on the Ned, or "Ned-lite," or "almost Ned," or . . .

Some on here and rightfully so are very protective of Ned's technique and setup.Trust me I have been corrected a few times when I went astray or tried to use a fly I tied as a Ned rig. So to honor both the traditionalists and the rest of us that fall somewhere in between having that thread up there may make it easier for all of us. I fall into the Ned category most of the time but do dabble a fair amount in the almost Ned category depending on the situation.

[IndianaFinesse]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

Why does it matter what we call it (Ned rig)  or what we are doing?

The same reason you wouldn't call a pegged Texas rig a shaky head.  Calling a rig something it isn't just creates confusion.

[Team9nine]

15 hours ago, OkobojiEagle said:

I prefer one of the Charlie Brewer techniques... more fishing, less defining.

 

 

oe

 

Only because everybody and their brother has forgot about slider fishing. If it was getting even half the attention the Ned Rig has, you'd be having to explain just what is or isn't proper "slider fishing" to everyone trying to modify the technique to their liking  

[WRB]

I think what sets apart a Ned rig from other finesse presentations is what Ned said in a video discribing this rig; we found a way to use the beetle spin style grub on a jig by cutting a fat worm in 1/2 and using it on a mushroom jig.

Western finesse fishing isn't any different then mid west finesse fishing, it's been popular for decades both regions. It's all about catching numbers of bass on light line/light tackle.

Tom

[MickD]

1 hour ago, IndianaFinesse said:

The same reason you wouldn't call a pegged Texas rig a shaky head.  Calling a rig something it isn't just creates confusion.

As if all the arguing about what it is and is called isn't causing confusion.

[J Francho]

"Poop Jig"

[Cgolf]

9 minutes ago, J Francho said:

"Poop Jig"

Now that is only if you use a "TRD" or dare I say "Big TRD";)

 

I prefer a Zinzerz or different brand altogether:)

[OkobojiEagle]

5 hours ago, J Francho said:

"Poop Jig"

That kind of blurs the line between artificial and live bait...

 

 

oe

[Comfortably Numb]

Tail grabbers are bluegill. Even 6" Bass dont tap it and just inhale it.

 

This is what I use. 1/16-1/8 weedless ball jig with #2 or #1 hook that a guy makes for me.

 

Half an unsalted soft 5" stick. Drop of glue helps them last.

 

I have tried a true "NED" rig (trd and shroom head). Although mine dont stand up they are just as effective.

 

We affectionately call it the turd rig

[fishwizzard]

I think I have posted this picture before, but this is a little kit of jigheads and plastics that I use when I want a weedless lure to fish in the MWF finesse style.  It hits all the points but "thrifty", and this kit gets as many hits (but fewer hookups) as an "open-hook head w/ 3" Zman plastic" Ned Rig.  

 

The lures end up closer to 1/4-5/16oz rather than 3/16 like the aforementioned "traditional" Ned, but still fish just fine on the same gear.  

 

I guess my point is, I believe it is the system rather than the specific lure that matters, so if you are going to mess around and change stuff you can still reap the rewards of crazy numbers days so long as you are mostly following the "rules", but if you change too much or ignore the rest of the system, you might not have as good luck.  

 

But, "Ned Rig" is easier to type then "Method to present small, light plastics to unremarkable looking bits of water while not getting up too early or staying out too late, and also wanting to get 100 bass on the same raggedy bit of plastic and dinged up jighead", so I am just gonna use that.