Interesting Read - Fluoro

[MassYak85]

Interesting read. I do have a little bit of an issue with how they addressed stretch and elasticity though. They seem to be implying Nylon is 100% elastic until it breaks, which is completely false. I think one of the articles they linked does a better job of scientifically tackling the debate. 

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/the-truth-about-fluorocarbon.html

 

I do still think the articles outline plenty of positives for fluoro though. The low water absorption is a big one, along with density. 

[Team9nine]

31 minutes ago, Turtle135 said:

What pound test flouro do you run on your baitcasting outfits? and how frequently do you break fish off?

 

 

Baitcasters, I run a lot of 8# and 10# fluoro for throwing Shad Raps and jerkbaits; 10-12# for mid and deep cranking; 15-16# fluoro for jigs, spinnerbaits, pitching, chatter baits; 20-25# fluoro for swimbaits and A-rigs. 

 

Honestly can't remember the last bass (or bait) I broke off...it's been many years.

 

 

5 minutes ago, MassYak85 said:

Interesting read. I do have a little bit of an issue with how they addressed stretch and elasticity though. They seem to be implying Nylon is 100% elastic until it breaks, which is completely false. I think one of the articles they linked does a better job of scientifically tackling the debate. 

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/the-truth-about-fluorocarbon.html

 

I do still think the articles outline plenty of positives for fluoro though. The low water absorption is a big one, along with density. 

 

Thank you very much, MassYak 

[12poundbass]

10 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Thank you very much, MassYak 

Lol ? 

[Primus]

17 hours ago, Mike L said:

I need to stop repling to these threads...

I've been useing flouro for years and have not had the problems most of you keep saying you have.  

 

If the knot is tied correctly there is no "poor knot strength" just because you're useing flouro.

If your reel isn't adjusted correctly there is no "poor casting performance" just because you're useing flouro..

 

All I know is I'm convinced that the benefits of useing a quality flouro for presentations that will benefit from it, far out weigh any real or percieved negative.

Flouro is not a panacea, but niether is braid, co ploy, or dare I say mono.

 

Now all the Mono Forever guys will jump all over me again, and come up with all the science, testing, polls, and opinions that will prove....Ahh, never mind 

 

 

 

 

Mike

I'm with you on this one Mike as are the vast majority of anglers on the B.A.S.S. tour .

[J Francho]

17 hours ago, Mike L said:

I need to stop repling to these threads...

I've been useing flouro for years and have not had the problems most of you keep saying you have.  

 

If the knot is tied correctly there is no "poor knot strength" just because you're useing flouro.

If your reel isn't adjusted correctly there is no "poor casting performance" just because you're useing flouro..

 

All I know is I'm convinced that the benefits of useing a quality flouro for presentations that will benefit from it, far out weigh any real or percieved negative.

Flouro is not a panacea, but niether is braid, co ploy, or dare I say mono.

 

Now all the Mono Forever guys will jump all over me again, and come up with all the science, testing, polls, and opinions that will prove....Ahh, never mind 

 

 

 

 

Mike

Exactly.  This is the user side, and T9 provided  the science side.

[NYWayfarer]

4 hours ago, Todd2 said:

And the endless debate goes on...much like Ginger or Mary Ann (yeah, showing my age). There likely will never be a winner...I'm a mono and Mary Ann guy...lol 

Since I like the hybrid line does that leave me with Mrs Howell??

 

Oh well at least she is rich. I can get a Bass Boat and Daiwa Steez from my sugar mama.

 

 

[Glenn]

[Fishingmickey]

Howdy Y'all,

     I figured I'd throw my two cents into the hat. I've been bass fishing for many years (40+). I fished Berkley 14# xl as my main stay line for years and years. I liked it better then Stren.   I got into tournament kayak fishing a few years back and started trying out fluorocarbon and braid.  I've found/figured out that fluoro can be a very good line if you get the better brands, FC Sniper, Seaguar Tatsu are the two I probably like the best. I've used the Sun line and Seaguar red they are good too but are somewhat stiffer. With fluorocarbon and baitcasters you have to be very careful when you pick out backlashes. I feel that Fluorocarbon really hates to be bent or kinked much more so then mono and you must cinch/tighten your knots much more carefully to avoid damaging the line.  

     I have begun experimenting using braid (20,30 & 40#) with crankbaits and a moderate action or hybrid glass/carbon rods. Braid has another whole set of issues of it's own. I try to avoid using it, but if it gets me good fish in the boat and fills a bill that Fluoro and Mono can't fill I'm trying it out.

Fishingmickey   

[WRB]

If you believe FC line will enhance you ability to catch bass use it.

Making statements like I can't remember the last bass or bait I broke off doesn't give any credibility. 

JFranco catches have more to do with his fishing skills. What is important line is a critical component of everyone's fishing tackle. You must have confidence with using the line and the skill to control big fish.

I believe FC gives the angler improved feedback with bottom contact lures vs premium mono and that was the reason I kept using it for 25 years. I stopped because of random line failures not experienced with premium mono. I stopped using FC at night about 20 years, it's a nightmare trying to tie effective knots at night using FC, no issues with mono.

I break break off lures nearly every outing using both FC and mono over the past 25 years, it's inevitable fishing jigs and worms in deep rocky structure lakes. Try keeping a 8 lb+ bass out of a bush, weed bed or tree using line less lb test than the bass weighs without breaking a few off, it's going to happen. Be honest!

Tom

 

[Team9nine]

49 minutes ago, WRB said:

If you believe FC line will enhance you ability to catch bass use it.

Making statements like I can't remember the last bass or bait I broke off doesn't give any credibility. 

JFranco catches have more to do with his fishing skills. What is important line is a critical component of everyone's fishing tackle. You must have confidence with using the line and the skill to control big fish.

I believe FC gives the angler improved feedback with bottom contact lures vs premium mono and that was the reason I kept using it for 25 years. I stopped because of random line failures not experienced with premium mono. I stopped using FC at night about 20 years, it's a nightmare trying to tie effective knots at night using FC, no issues with mono.

I break break off lures nearly every outing using both FC and mono over the past 25 years, it's inevitable fishing jigs and worms in deep rocky structure lakes. Try keeping a 8 lb+ bass out of a bush, weed bed or tree using line less lb test than the bass weighs without breaking a few off, it's going to happen. Be honest!

Tom

 

 

If it makes you feel better, I looked back in my records and found 2 breakoffs for you. One was on August 11, 2013 on a hookset. The other was the week of June 23, same year when a bass got on the back side of a metal culvert and eventually sawed off my fluoro - honestly. I don't count hang ups in the mix because those likely get broken off no matter what line you're using if the lure retriever fails to come through. I will also admit I have broken off a time or three this year on my fluoro leader after failing to retie after catching 20-30 bass on a bait, but I chalk that up to stupidity on my part and not a fault of the fluoro.

 

Beyond that, I would have remembered breaking off any big bass or expensive baits - we don't see a lot of the former around here, and i don't buy a lot of the latter. It wouldn't surprise me if there were a couple more breakoffs I don't remember, but when you catch 2,000+ bass a year, the random anomaly becomes easy to overlook.

[Turtle135]

The reason I asked about the breakoffs is that I fish a lot with a "river smallmouth" crowd. These guys do everything with the "braid and flouro leader" approach (both spinning and baitcasting). I understand why they do it because of the type of presentations they make (light lures and long, long casts in current). I also watch them pop fish off with an alarming regularity or after a tournament they tell me about a good fish that broke them off.

 

I am almost tempted to spool up with some 20 pound test flouro on one of my baitcasters just to see what happens. I don't think I have ever tried anything more than 15 pound test flouro before (and that did not go well).

[Jeff H]

19 hours ago, WRB said:

I am good at tying knots and won several knot tying contest, 

Tom

Hold up here a sec....where did you manage to get into knot tying contests?

[A-Jay]

4 minutes ago, Jeff H said:

Hold up here a sec....where did you manage to get into knot tying contests?

 and I thought Michigan winters were long . . . . . 

A-Jay

[Team9nine]

2 hours ago, Turtle135 said:

The reason I asked about the breakoffs is that I fish a lot with a "river smallmouth" crowd. These guys do everything with the "braid and flouro leader" approach (both spinning and baitcasting). I understand why they do it because of the type of presentations they make (light lures and long, long casts in current). I also watch them pop fish off with an alarming regularity or after a tournament they tell me about a good fish that broke them off.

 

I am almost tempted to spool up with some 20 pound test flouro on one of my baitcasters just to see what happens. I don't think I have ever tried anything more than 15 pound test flouro before (and that did not go well).

 

As wrb alluded to, fishing in some environments almost guarantees the occasional breakoff, and rocky rivers would be one such case. That aside, I can make a couple suggestions. 

 

One would be to use actual fluorocarbon leader material for it's harder composition and supposed better abrasion resistance.

 

The other option is to be specific in your line selection. I lean heavily on available data in this regard. Outside of the newer Tatsu line I've begun using, I previously only used 2 brands of fluoro - InvisX and Toray Superhard Upgrade. This was based on all the Tackle Tour test data that showed InvisX with the best knot strength and Toray SH with the superior abrasion resistance. And while I have no way of proving it, I'd like to believe that using these lines and metrics is likely responsible for my lack of breakoffs and other issues I mentioned that seem to plague so many.

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Jeff H said:

Hold up here a sec....where did you manage to get into knot tying contests?

We have a event every year since 1958 that promotes hunting, fishing, camping, boating, hiking and other family outdoor recreational activities call the Fred Hall Show.

Several fishing related events are sponsored by various fishing tackle companies like casting contest and knot tying contest. Back in 1960 I won the fresh water fishing line contest by tying a knot called the Indian knot, today known as the Palomar knot.

All knots had to be 100% line strength to submit your entry. They take the top 10 entries and each contestant gets to tie a sample to be tested in front of the judges. Fred Hall show is ongoing every year in SoCal.

I have been teaching new anglers to tie knots when I worked on a boat landing at Big Bear lake, mostly lake 2 hook rigs using 3 lb test mono and started doing this as a teenager. You can consider yourself good at knot tying when you learn a Binimi twist.

Tom

 

[Jeff H]

That's great Tom! I thought maybe there were some Scout exhibitions or something like that.

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

 

As wrb alluded to, fishing in some environments almost guarantees the occasional breakoff, and rocky rivers would be one such case. That aside, I can make a couple suggestions. 

 

One would be to use actual fluorocarbon leader material for it's harder composition and supposed better abrasion resistance.

 

The other option is to be specific in your line selection. I lean heavily on available data in this regard. Outside of the newer Tatsu line I've begun using, I previously only used 2 brands of fluoro - InvisX and Toray Superhard Upgrade. This was based on all the Tackle Tour test data that showed InvisX with the best knot strength and Toray SH with the superior abrasion resistance. And while I have no way of proving it, I'd like to believe that using these lines and metrics is likely responsible for my lack of breakoffs and other issues I mentioned that seem to plague so many.

You can go back 2 or 3 years and search Toray and you will see I was promoting this FC line! Used Toray FC SH for about 3 years before it was tested by TT, the problem I have with it was major 3X price increase and don't see any advantage over Sunline Shooter FC that dates back 25 years. Agree that Seagaur Abrix would be a good choice for reasonable price point if FC is your line choice. The most abrasion resistant line I have used is Maxima Ultra Green Copoly.

Tom

 

[Johnbt]

"I'm looking for the right emoji to insert here, but I can't quite find it in the available list..."

 

How about this oldie...  

 

[Boomstick]

I read this a while ago. I would take everything with a grain of salt here as the author is clearly not a FC fan, but he does raise several good points and is willing to back them.

 

At the start of this article, he states it's twice as expensive but not twice as good, which is true. The real question is if the extra sink and feel is worth it to you or not.

[Basseditor]

Here’s is what I dislike about flouro. When I snag a lure that won’t come free, I have to get as close as I can to the snag and then wrap the line around a cleat, hit the trolling motor switch and pull to try to break the line.

 

It’s as strong as an anchor rope.

 

I don’t have knot issues with flouro but I tie knots carefully.

 

Compare the line diameter. Where you use 10# mono, you could probably use 15# flouro. I don’t use flouro any smaller than that. In fact, when I use flouro leaders, I use 20 or 30#. That’s the advantage of flouro. Use heavier test line!

[Catt]

[deep]

8 hours ago, basseditor said:

 

Compare the line diameter. Where you use 10# mono, you could probably use 15# flouro. I don’t use flouro any smaller than that. In fact, when I use flouro leaders, I use 20 or 30#. That’s the advantage of flouro. Use heavier test line!

 

Umm, sorry, but I think your 10# mono probably breaks at 15#, and therefore it's not 10# line.

[RichF]

Eh, use whatever gives you warm fuzzies inside.  I like fluoro for certain things. I like mono for certain things. I like braid for certain things.  If you know what you're doing, you're not going to break off that many fish, regardless of line choice. 

[Catt]

5 minutes ago, RichF said:

Eh, use whatever gives you warm fuzzies inside.  I like fluoro for certain things. I like mono for certain things. I like braid for certain things.  If you know what you're doing, you're not going to break off that many fish, regardless of line choice. 

 

?

[Turtle135]

1 hour ago, deep said:

 

Umm, sorry, but I think your 10# mono probably breaks at 15#, and therefore it's not 10# line.

This is what I like about Trilene XT Monofilament. While it says 14 pound test on the box I can lift 20 pounds of weight lifting plates with a single strand.