How to tell? When to stop?

[Ksam1234]

So how can you guys tell if there are big bass in a pond/lake.. and when would you stop fishing it. Say your out catching bass in the 1-2 pound range with a 3 pound in there but never seen anything else. Would you keep fishing it in hopes of a big one? The major lake I fish is bear lake in western New York if anyone knows .. never had anything big though.  

[Raul]

37 minutes ago, Ksam1234 said:

So how can you guys tell if there are big bass in a pond/lake.. and when would you stop fishing it. Say your out catching bass in the 1-2 pound range with a 3 pound in there but never seen anything else. Would you keep fishing it in hopes of a big one? The major lake I fish is bear lake in western New York if anyone knows .. never had anything big though.  

37 minutes ago, Ksam1234 said:

Never stop.

 

My friend Pedro and I fished this pond in his grandfather's farm for over a decade, year after year, trip after trip we caught a bunch of 10-12 inch bass, it was fun, 50+ fish in an afternoon was an ego boost, maybe the biggest fish we caught was a 3 lber, that was until one day ..... I caught my first 10+ lber in it, not only that, I broke my record 3 times that day, yup 3 10+ lbers the same day ( and lost another bigun right at the bank ) from that puddle. 

[Sword of the Lord]

I don't think there's any magic formula to tell you if a body of water has big bass unless you actually catch one or see one caught. Just throw your line in the water, and if it holds bass and you catch one or see them in there, there's the possibility of a big one. If I'm catching bass at a body of water, I'm probably not going to stop fishing it. If all you're catching out of a pond is real skinny dinks, I wouldn't have any hope for a big one unless someone has recently put one or more in there from elsewhere. Sometimes a pond can't support bass with a proper and abundant food source or the proper cover to ambush and feed well. 

[Ksam1234]

9 minutes ago, Sword of the Lord said:

I don't think there's any magic formula to tell you if a body of water has big bass unless you actually catch one or see one caught. Just throw your line in the water, and if it holds bass and you catch one or see them in there, there's the possibility of a big one. If I'm catching bass at a body of water, I'm probably not going to stop fishing it. If all you're catching out of a pond is real skinny dinks, I wouldn't have any hope for a big one unless someone has recently put one or more in there from elsewhere. Sometimes a pond can't support bass with a proper and abundant food source or the proper cover to ambush and feed well. 

Yeah that makes sense, the lake I fish also has northern pike , and Muskie ! And have seen 40 inch and almost 50 inch Muskie and pike

pulled out. So if there are fish that big I would

hope it holds big bass

16 minutes ago, Raul said:

Never stop.

 

My friend Pedro and I fished this pond in his grandfather's farm for over a decade, year after year, trip after trip we caught a bunch of 10-12 inch bass, it was fun, 50+ fish in an afternoon was an ego boost, maybe the biggest fish we caught was a 3 lber, that was until one day ..... I caught my first 10+ lber in it, not only that, I broke my record 3 times that day, yup 3 10+ lbers the same day ( and lost another bigun right at the bank ) from that puddle. 

That's awesome! I would love a 10! My

PB is just shy of 6 pounds

[Raul]

1 hour ago, Ksam1234 said:

Yeah that makes sense, the lake I fish also has northern pike , and Muskie ! And have seen 40 inch and almost 50 inch Muskie and pike

pulled out. So if there are fish that big I would

hope it holds big bass

That's awesome! I would love a 10! My

PB is just shy of 6 pounds

A 6 lber PB isn't bad specially if you only fish in Yankeeland, hell, it's better than what most dudes have as PB down here in the deep south.

[Ksam1234]

6 minutes ago, Raul said:

A 6 lber PB isn't bad specially if you only fish in Yankeeland, hell, it's better than what most dudes have as PB down here in the deep south.

Well

thanks man that's a boost of confidence .. im

hoping i can get bigger ones even though New York isn't rly known as trophy bass heaven 

[WRB]

It's amazing how a 10 lb bass actually weighs a 6 lbs on a accurate scale.

You can determine what the lake record bass may be or talk to local tackle shops.

Tom

 

[Ksam1234]

18 minutes ago, WRB said:

It's amazing how a 10 lb bass actually weighs a 6 lbs on a accurate scale.

You can determine what the lake record bass may be or talk to local tackle shops.

Tom

 

It's hard to really know if they stretch the truth ya know? I have caught a 6 pounder out of it but I had friends of mine and a coworker said he "caught a 7 pounder" and "seen bigger" or had one break off on "17 pound mono" so maybe it's truth

[WRB]

How many 10 lb LMB have ever been caught in NY?*

 The states record is 11 lb 4 oz LMB from Buckhorn lake, a private lake, in '87.

There is a few 6 to 7 lb LMB caught in NY, mostly from lake Champlain. You have a better chance for 6 to 7 lb Smallmouth bass in NY.  *I will defer to John Franco who lives in NY.

To answer the question to catch big bass you must fish for them.

That statement may sound rediculous but a lot goes into knowing where, when and what to use to catch big bass. 

1st, Bear lake has multiple big predator fish like musky and pike that dominate the primary forage base, bass are part of that forage and not the top dog.

2nd, Bear lake stratifies (thermocline at 12-15') during the summer months, leaving the shallow shore areas as the location for all the big predator fish including any adult size bass to share the forage bass.

3rd, Bear lake has a big population of 12"-15" bass that indicates growth potential is low.

If you know big bass are in this lake learn where they live and what they eat and fish for them. I believe from what little research is available on the Internet, very low possibility of catching a bass over 5 lbs from Bear lake, NY.

Tom

[OCdockskipper]

18 hours ago, Ksam1234 said:

Say your catching bass in the 1-2 pound range with a 3 pound in there but never seen anything else. Would you keep fishing it in hopes of a big one? 

 

As WRB states, there are regional & local differences that put a cap on the largest bass each lake has the ability to produce.  However, there are two other variables that can make a big difference - Your ability and time.

 

Taking the second variable first, all bodies of water change over time, due to both natural & man made influence.  WRB probably remembers back in the late 70's when all of California was in a major drought & nearly all of the reservoirs were 50% full or less.  Then two winters of major storms topped of nearly every body of water in the state.  Fishing fluctuated from excellent (many fish concentrated in the smaller, drought stricken lakes) to worse (fish spread out over completely filled lakes) back to excellent (a couple of years of great spawns with water covering more fertile areas) over a 7-8 year period.  Any snapshot of a single year would have been misleading as to what each lake would average or could produce.

 

The more important variable is your skill level.  When I first began to fish my home lake, I was proficient with moving baits, but not much else.  That had worked on previous bodies of water, so when I would catch 6 or 7 bass a day in the 1 to 1.5 lb range, I thought this lake wasn't that good.  Fortunately, the one other person who fishes the lake regularly was friendly enough to take me out with him one time.  I was amazed at the number and size of fish he caught on plastic worms & creature baits, my perception at that time was that those fish did not exist in that lake.  I learned how to fish those lures and over time, learned other techniques that fit well for this lake (such as skipping docks).  Catching 20 - 30 fish a day became the normal, with a large percentage of them being over 2 lbs and the occasional 5lb to 8lb making a showing.  I write this not to say I know everything, but rather to point out the difference, that I had no idea about what I didn't know.

 

What is fun about learning new techniques is how you can apply them to new bodies of water.  I was in Texas a couple of years ago visiting family and was told that the small river & swimming hole near the house only held a few small bass.  I went ahead & fished it anyway and the combination of a ZMan TRD fished behind boulders and a 4" senko skipped under the shoreline brush produced a bunch of nice fish, including a pair of 5lbers.  My sisters jaw dropped, she would not have believed those fish lived there had she not seen it herself.  She has since become a Ned rig aficionado and it has replaced her love of buzzbaits and crankbaits.

[Ksam1234]

3 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

 

As WRB states, there are regional & local differences that put a cap on the largest bass each lake has the ability to produce.  However, there are two other variables that can make a big difference - Your ability and time.

 

Taking the second variable first, all bodies of water change over time, due to both natural & man made influence.  WRB probably remembers back in the late 70's when all of California was in a major drought & nearly all of the reservoirs were 50% full or less.  Then two winters of major storms topped of nearly every body of water in the state.  Fishing fluctuated from excellent (many fish concentrated in the smaller, drought stricken lakes) to worse (fish spread out over completely filled lakes) back to excellent (a couple of years of great spawns with water covering more fertile areas) over a 7-8 year period.  Any snapshot of a single year would have been misleading as to what each lake would average or could produce.

 

The more important variable is your skill level.  When I first began to fish my home lake, I was proficient with moving baits, but not much else.  That had worked on previous bodies of water, so when I would catch 6 or 7 bass a day in the 1 to 1.5 lb range, I thought this lake wasn't that good.  Fortunately, the one other person who fishes the lake regularly was friendly enough to take me out with him one time.  I was amazed at the number and size of fish he caught on plastic worms & creature baits, my perception at that time was that those fish did not exist in that lake.  I learned how to fish those lures and over time, learned other techniques that fit well for this lake (such as skipping docks).  Catching 20 - 30 fish a day became the normal, with a large percentage of them being over 2 lbs and the occasional 5lb to 8lb making a showing.  I write this not to say I know everything, but rather to point out the difference, that I had no idea about what I didn't know.

 

What is fun about learning new techniques is how you can apply them to new bodies of water.  I was in Texas a couple of years ago visiting family and was told that the small river & swimming hole near the house only held a few small bass.  I went ahead & fished it anyway and the combination of a ZMan TRD fished behind boulders and a 4" senko skipped under the shoreline brush produced a bunch of nice fish, including a pair of 5lbers.  My sisters jaw dropped, she would not have believed those fish lived there had she not seen it herself.  She has since become a Ned rig aficionado and it has replaced her love of buzzbaits and crankbaits.

Well thank you ! That was great response and I am actually in the same "boat" as you were once. I'm a new fisherman and have only been fishing for little over a year. I have confidence in power foshingg. I use spinnerbaits, crankbaits. Jerk, and swimbaits/jigs. But I have a hard time with the slow presentation. Using arky jigs or senkos. Have a hard time with the finesse and slow tactic which produce the bigger bass. I'm trying to learn how to use a skirted jig curently a Texas rigged soft plastics. Doing alright so far I think. Ill keep trying to improve and not just power fish. 

[ww2farmer]

8 hours ago, WRB said:

 

There is a few 6 to 7 lb LMB caught in NY, mostly from lake Champlain. You have a better chance for 6 to 7 lb Smallmouth bass in NY.  

Tom, when it comes to talking about NY fisheries...whats the old saying...better to keep quiet and let people think your a fool, then open your mouth and remove any doubt. You talking about NY fisheries and making absurd statements like that, would be like me talking about the fisheries in So. Cal. But I know better, because I don't know a dang thing about them.

 

I have caught dozens of 6lb largemouth in NY. Usually several per season. One, or more is caught almost weekly in  local tournments here in the Finger Lakes. And several times a year a 7-8 lb fish is brought in. In fact, Conesus, Silver, Keuka, and Cayuga are surer bets for a 6+ lb Largemouth than Champlain, Oneida or Chautauqua. Honeoye is the only regional lake not known for size (but big ones do live there, they are just not as plentyful as the other lakes). Waneta Lamoka is a "tweener" lake....most of the time it produces small fish, but it has a larger population of big LM than Honeoye, and tournament results show that. Sodus is a wildcard. It has a lot of quality (3-5lb) largemouth. But it doesn't kick out the really big fish (5-7lbs) as often as the other lakes.

 

 6+ lb smallmouth are rarer on inland (IE Non-Great lake) bodies of water in NY. I have ONE in my lifetime. You'll have to go to the Lake Erie/Niagara river systems, or the Lake Ontario/St. Lawrence systems to have a true legit shot at one without it being a one off "fish of a lifetime". Keuka, Champlain, Oneida, and Chautauqua will kick out a 6+ lb smallmouth more often than Cayuga, Conesus, Silver, and Honeoye, but not with the absurd regularity of the Great Lakes fisheries.

 

A healthy population of big toothy critters is a help to growing big bass. Waters with pike and muskies grow larger bass almost without exception than waters with no pike/muskies or waters with pickeral as the only toothy. This is Honeoyes problem. A lot of Chain Pic, few (but large pike) and the result is a population of 12"-15" bass that has no checks and balances. Silver and Conesus are the opposite. The Pike in both lakes are big and plentyful, and Conesus has the added bonus of Tiger Muskies.

 

 

[WRB]

The op is talking about 10lb NY bass, so I am off about 7lb LMB, tell me how many legit 9-10 lb LMB are caught?

OK, let's hear from the NY's who can offer something helpful to the op's ? Should he continue trying to catch big bass from Bear lake?

Tom

[toni63]

There's a little farm pond near me that I hit when I have an hour or two and not enough time to get the boat out. Same situation, catch lots of 1 lb bass and occasionally something bigger like 3 lbs but never anything bigger for a long time. I figured out that there is one section of it that warms up really fast in the spring and all the bass on sunny March afternoons all congregate in that corner and just laze about just below the surface.

 

Seeing them all there in one place convinced me there were a lot more bigger fish in that pond than I ever realized. So now I know they are there, I just keep fishing it and have actually caught a couple 5 lb fish out of it I would have never thought were in there based on what i usually catch.

[RichF]

I don't think the OP is talking about 10 pounders in NY, just larger than the 1-2 and occasional 3 pounders he's catching out of Bear Lake.  @WRB is correct in his assessment of 10 pounders in NY...they're rare...incredibly rare.  I 100% agree with @ww2farmer though.  His breakdown of the finger lakes are spot on.  There are a lot more 6 to 7 lb largemouth than you'd think and most of them are coming from those lakes, not Champy.  So to answer the OP's question, don't stop fishing because there are most definitely bass in Bear lake larger than 3 lbs.  Maybe not 10, but 5 to 7 for sure.

[J Francho]

On 9/4/2017 at 0:32 PM, WRB said:

*I will defer to John Franco who lives in NY.

Thanks, Tom. Just a postscript to this thread, for informational purposes.  I know of a verified 9+ from Greenwood Lake.  I personally witnessed an 8-5 in a tournament on Keuka Lake.  I know of a verified 8+ from a small, unmentionable pond/Lake in Central NY.  I personally have caught two fish over 7, a 7-2 from Irondequoit Bay, and a 7-1 from that same unmentionable pond/lake.  The biggest I've seen from Champlain are in the 6-7.  That place is loaded with 4-5 lb. bass.  Conesus is another big bass factory.  I believe the NY record should be retired.  It is not from public water, and people that live on the lake are suspicious.  I think there is a close to 9 lb. fish swimming around.

 

Back to the question.  I would not leave the spot entirely, until I was convinced I was on a "small fish pattern."  I might back off the spot, and look for what Bill Murphy calls "subliminal spots."  Little things, just off the main structure that can make all the difference in the size of your catch.

[Ksam1234]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

Thanks, Tom. Just a postscript to this thread, for informational purposes.  I know of a verified 9+ from Greenwood Lake.  I personally witnessed an 8-5 in a tournament on Keuka Lake.  I know of a verified 8+ from a small, unmentionable pond/Lake in Central NY.  I personally have caught two fish over 7, a 7-2 from Irondequoit Bay, and a 7-1 from that same unmentionable pond/lake.  The biggest I've seen from Champlain are in the 6-7.  That place is loaded with 4-5 lb. bass.  Conesus is another big bass factory.  I believe the NY record should be retired.  It is not from public water, and people that live on the lake are suspicious.  I think there is a close to 9 lb. fish swimming around.

 

Back to the question.  I would not leave the spot entirely, until I was convinced I was on a "small fish pattern."  I might back off the spot, and look for what Bill Murphy calls "subliminal spots."  Little things, just off the main structure that can make all the difference in the size of your catch.

Ok thank you! That's gives me some optimism.  Yeah it doesn't have to be a 10 pounder but I'm hoping for anything 5+. I know they have huge Muskie and pike so I would think the bass population could grow to decent numbers to. So I'll continue to fish it. 

2 hours ago, RichF said:

I don't think the OP is talking about 10 pounders in NY, just larger than the 1-2 and occasional 3 pounders he's catching out of Bear Lake.  @WRB is correct in his assessment of 10 pounders in NY...they're rare...incredibly rare.  I 100% agree with @ww2farmer though.  His breakdown of the finger lakes are spot on.  There are a lot more 6 to 7 lb largemouth than you'd think and most of them are coming from those lakes, not Champy.  So to answer the OP's question, don't stop fishing because there are most definitely bass in Bear lake larger than 3 lbs.  Maybe not 10, but 5 to 7 for sure.

Yeah I would deffinetly be happy with a 5-7 pound. I know northern bass usually don't get into the DD size like Florida and Texas. I'll continue to fish it then and just keep trying everything. Finding new structure etc till I get on a good pattern. 

[WRB]

2 reasons why LMB growth is limited in northern waters; 

1. The LMB are northern strain.

2. The growing season is limited do to the climate...lakes ice over.

Big bass are going to be older fish and the population density very low %. If the bass were the prime predators they can go wherever they want and feed on whatever is the most predominate prey source. My minimal time on northern lakes in both Cananda and 1,000 island area of NY the bigger bass tend to be inside seedling oriented bass in lieu of key strike zones located on outside structure or weed lines and rarely caught more than 1 big bass a day. Being a jig and big soft plastic worm fisherman those are the lures that worked for me in northern lakes. Larger swimbait, spinnerbaits and buzz baits tend to attract the toothy fish.

Tom

PS, my PB northern strain LMB is 12lbs 4 oz. latest NLMB strain from lake that ices over (Big Bear lake) is 8 lbs. 

Thanks to both Franho and Framer for their expertise on NY bass.

Tom

[Ksam1234]

1 minute ago, WRB said:

2 reasons why LMB growth is limited in northern waters; 

1. The LMB are northern strain.

2. The growing season is limited do to the climate...lakes ice over.

Big bass are going to be older fish and the population density very low %. If the bass were the prime predators they can go wherever they want and feed on whatever is the most predominate prey source. My minimal time on northern lakes in both Cananda and 1,000 island area of NY the bigger bass tend to be inside seedling oriented bass in lieu of key strike zones located on outside structure or weed lines and rarely caught more than 1 big bass a day. Being a jig and big soft plastic worm fisherman those are the lures that worked for me in northern lakes. Larger swimbait, spinnerbaits and buzz baits tend to attract the toothy fish.

Tom

PS, my PB northern strain LMB is 12lbs 4 oz. latest NLMB strain from lake that ices over (Big Bear lake) is 8 lbs. 

Thanks to both Franho and Framer for their expertise on NY bass.

Tom

That makes sense. It gets to cold for them to grow. I have to learn how to fish jigs and Plasrics

more as you say, I would love a fish like that! My current PB is just shy of 6# it was 5 pounds 14 3/4 oz .. so anything 6+ I would be super happy with. And where is "big bear lake" ?

[WRB]

Big Bear lake is located Southern California, 7,200 ft elevation with cold micro climate. 

Florida strain LMB were planted in Big Bear lake but didn't survive the winter. FLMB core body minimum temperature is around 45 degrees F, this limits thier survival range to warmer water climates.

Tom

[Ksam1234]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Big Bear lake is located Southern California, 7,200 ft elevation with cold micro climate. 

Florida strain LMB were planted in Big Bear lake but didn't survive the winter. FLMB core body minimum temperature is around 45 degrees F, this limits thier survival range to warmer water climates.

Tom

Ok gotcha ! Thanks for all the input. I'll have to take a fishing vacation sometime for some Florida strain bass sometime ! Would be fun trip