Anyone "stitching" for big bass

[thinkingredneck]

I am reading Fishing for Giant Bass, by Murphy.  He talks about stitchin for bass.  Has anyone tried it?  I could not tell what line he uses but it seems to be abrasion resistent mono.  Anyone that has used thisntechnique, please share details. Do you have problems with gut hooks?  Can you use this technique innmuddy water?  It seems like a split shot rig fished by hand, slowly.

[WRB]

Stitching requires a stationary plateform like shore fishing or a securely anchored boat to do it effectively. 

Yes, I belonged to the Pieces bass club when Bill Murphy was a member and stitching along with double anchoring was a common presentation for fishing live crawdads. The stitch retreive technique was adapted to the split shot rig.

If you are a fly fisherman you know how to stitch retreive. The problem is where to put the retrieved line as you slowly recover line. In a boat we used a bucket with water to drop a few yards inches by inches into to prevent the line from tangling. You basically use your fingers to wrap line between the index finger and pinky finger, about 3" to 4" each stitch and drop the loose line and repeat. When you feel a pick or strike, you need to recover the line onto the reel before setting the hook, with tangling the line! Very few anglers have the patients to stitching properly, it's a lost skill.

We used 14-17lb mono line, Murphy used a Cardinal 7 spinning reel and custom made rod with oversize guides to increase casting distance, I used Ambassaduer 5000C reel and 6'6" custom bass rod made from salt water popping rod blank.

I don't stitch very often today and prefer to shake the rod tip inbetween a slow 3" to 6" drag with the rod tip when using big worms T-rigged brass n glass.

Tom 

 

[toni63]

I think back in the day when he wrote it, rods were way less sensitive than they are now so it was a way to overcome a deficiency in equipment. These days rods and line transmit subtle movements so much better it's probably not a technique that is going to be significantly better than using the rod along, but to each his own.

 

[A-Jay]

I gave it my best effort a while back but was never able to put it all together.

A-Jay

 

 

[deep]

18 minutes ago, toni63 said:

I think back in the day when he wrote it, rods were way less sensitive than they are now

 

 

Probably.

 

18 minutes ago, toni63 said:

 so it was a way to overcome a deficiency in equipment. These days rods and line transmit subtle movements so much better it's probably not a technique that is going to be significantly better than using the rod along, but to each his own.

 

I have a feeling you haven't read the book...

[Paul Roberts]

I think the main reason for stitching -and please correct me, as I haven't read the book lately (it's sitting on my shelf next to me though)- was to overcome the spookiness of fish, and to maintain bottom contact with relatively little weight.

 

He would have been using mono, since that's what there was in the day. And he was using long fiberglass rods -custom made for stitching. 

 

I often used a stitch like technique -having fingers on the line- which is very sensitive. However with some of my more sensitive super-light graphite rods, this is less important than it was back in the day with the fiberglass rods I had. I will keep tension or pull slowly on the line, picking up slack by spinning the bail with my little finger.

 

 

[WRB]

We had boron and graphite rods when Murphy wrote his bookend was stitching. Rods can't transmit subtle movements, the line movement is the only thing any rod or finger tip can detect. Line goes first through the guides, the guides can dampen line movement, they can't accelerate it, the rod blank isn't a tunning fork and can only reduce dampening vibrations. No rod is more sensitive then your finger tips.

As Catt has repeated many times, you want to become a better jig or worm angler...fish at night! When you can't see you rely on feeling line movements and that is how we old timers managed to catch all those big bass, the bass haven't changed the way they strike.

Stitching kept your finger tips on the line and that simple tip will improve your strike detection.

Tom

[toni63]

Yeah, I have read it. Particularly the chapter on stitching. It accomplishes two things, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

One, it slows down the presentation, which more accurately reflects what life is really like under the water. Things move slowly, so your lure should move slowly too. I don't have a problem with slow. A recent trip with a fishing guide confirmed that because he said to me his most oft given advice to people he fishes with is "slow down, you're moving that thing way too fast" and he said to me "you're moving it too slow, no fish is going to even see that thing move down there if you don't pick up the pace a tick." followed by that was the first time he can recall in 20 years of guiding having to tell someone to pick up the pace.

 

Second thing it accomplishes is giving you the greatest amount of feedback as to what might be going on with your lure, subtle bites, debris it is moving over, rocks, brush, etc.

 

My point remains the same. Old fiberglass rods or whatever else they were made of (I seem to recall aluminum being popular at some point) probably don't transfer as much subtle information to the angler as the common graphite rod does now.

 

And remember, Murphy's book was aimed at catching "teenagers" as he called the 10 plus lb class of bass, and he goes to great lengths to tell you that those bass are older, wiser, more easily spooked and incredibly well versed in detecting even the subtlest different between what they normally eat and a lure, so to fool them you really do have to pay close attention to the details and present your lure/bait to them in the most accurate way possible.

 

To fish for garden variety bass, stitching is a huge waste of time. But if you're going after a wise old trophy girl, you are probably not going to find a better retrieve technique to give you the best odds.

 

As far as keeping your fingers on the line, I always have a finger or some contact with my line. My grandfather taught me that when I was a kid, so its something I always do, let the line feed between my fingers to keep a little tension on it as it spools and to feel for bites.

 

But once again, to each his own.

[WRB]

1 hour ago, toni63 said:

Yeah, I have read it. Particularly the chapter on stitching. It accomplishes two things, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

One, it slows down the presentation, which more accurately reflects what life is really like under the water. Things move slowly, so your lure should move slowly too. I don't have a problem with slow. A recent trip with a fishing guide confirmed that because he said to me his most oft given advice to people he fishes with is "slow down, you're moving that thing way too fast" and he said to me "you're moving it too slow, no fish is going to even see that thing move down there if you don't pick up the pace a tick." followed by that was the first time he can recall in 20 years of guiding having to tell someone to pick up the pace.

 

Second thing it accomplishes is giving you the greatest amount of feedback as to what might be going on with your lure, subtle bites, debris it is moving over, rocks, brush, etc.

 

My point remains the same. Old fiberglass rods or whatever else they were made of (I seem to recall aluminum being popular at some point) probably don't transfer as much subtle information to the angler as the common graphite rod does now.

 

And remember, Murphy's book was aimed at catching "teenagers" as he called the 10 plus lb class of bass, and he goes to great lengths to tell you that those bass are older, wiser, more easily spooked and incredibly well versed in detecting even the subtlest different between what they normally eat and a lure, so to fool them you really do have to pay close attention to the details and present your lure/bait to them in the most accurate way possible.

 

To fish for garden variety bass, stitching is a huge waste of time. But if you're going after a wise old trophy girl, you are probably not going to find a better retrieve technique to give you the best odds.

 

As far as keeping your fingers on the line, I always have a finger or some contact with my line. My grandfather taught me that when I was a kid, so its something I always do, let the line feed between my fingers to keep a little tension on it as it spools and to feel for bites.

 

But once again, to each his own.

My guess is teenagers was spell corrected from teener's, bass 13 lbs and up. Your grandfather was right! I never caught a teener stitching worms, crawdads yes. The vast majority of my teener's were caught on hair jigs with pork trialers, another lure from the past that Murphy used a lot!

Tom

[Catt]

While I don't exactly "Stitch" I do fish Texas Rigs slower than most anglers. On the initial drop I will wait 30 seconds to a minute before moving my lure. Sometimes its a slow drag with my rod tip held high other times my rod tip is low & I drag the lure with my reel.

 

This is a technique I use on deep water structure during the dog days of summer & during the dead of winter.

[deep]

4 hours ago, toni63 said:

To fish for garden variety bass, stitching is a huge waste of time. But if you're going after a wise old trophy girl, you are probably not going to find a better retrieve technique to give you the best odds.

 

As far as keeping your fingers on the line, I always have a finger or some contact with my line. My grandfather taught me that when I was a kid, so its something I always do, let the line feed between my fingers to keep a little tension on it as it spools and to feel for bites.

 

 

Agreed, and I was wrong (obviously!)

 

I don't fish for big fish anymore (that might change in future) but yeah spending 15+ minutes on one retrieves- not necessarily with a worm- is sometimes the only way to get bit. One thing I do recall (from my notes), the bigger fish (I consider 7#+ NLMB big) were all caught when I was fishing extremely slow or pretty fast.

 

4 hours ago, toni63 said:

And remember, Murphy's book was aimed at catching "teenagers" as he called the 10 plus lb class of bass, and he goes to great lengths to tell you that those bass are older, wiser, more easily spooked and incredibly well versed in detecting even the subtlest different between what they normally eat and a lure, so to fool them you really do have to pay close attention to the details and present your lure/bait to them in the most accurate way possible.

 

I'm starting to get way off topic. One last thing. I think a lot of folks don't realize that catching 4 or 5# fish is easy if you know how to target the largest fish in the reservoir. I fish the same locations I would, just with different presentations (or baits), and I'm not worried about timing so much.

 

[WRB]

The worms we used back then were DeLong or hand pours that had good floatation quality and when split shot rigged stayed off the bottom a few inches, the nose hook sinking the front end of the worm. The split shot rigging and slow 3" to 4" jerk pause created by rotating your hand palm up to palm down to pick up line between index and pinky fingers to move the worm "stitching" it along. Bass would pick up the worm and swim off with it while you kept feeding the to it and reeling up the slack to hook set was exciting knowing a big bass was at the other end of the line.

Today we hook set much faster, rarely letting a bass swim off before hook setting. I use Uptons Custom hand poured worms today and may stitch it a few feet over a bush on occasion, usually use the rod and slow reel to move the worm.

Tom

PS, you don't want to use FC line because it sinks and drags along the bottom.

[Sword of the Lord]

I've never heard of stitching. My 4 years of total bassin' is showing.

 

Personally, I'm still at the stage where I don't really care about the size of the bass I catch. I just love catching them. Anything from 6 inch babies to 4 and 5 pounders makes me a happy man, more so the latter; but I won't go out of my way and limit my bait selection and areas fished looking for big mama.

 

As far as wormin', I pride myself on my skills. Plastic worms and stick baits are my confidence baits. My absolute go-tos. I'm patient by nature. It seems I have a sixth sense in just where to throw them too. I'll drag, pop, twitch, whatever is required. Totally kill using worms and the like.

[Team9nine]

I own one of Bill Murphy's custom stitching rods that he made and used. This rod is a beast, weighing in at over 12 ounces. As for the technique and sensitivity, the rod never came into play. You simply pointed the rod straight at the bait and used your hand/fingertips to feel every little thing going on as you stitched line in.

 

 

[WRB]

Looks like a Tru-Line blank, the reel seats alone weigh a lot. The Cardinal 7 reel is also a heavy salt size beast. How long is that 2 piece rod, I believe it was 7'?

How did you manage to find this rod? It looks to be in very good condition.

Thank you for sharing the photo.

Tom

[Team9nine]

10 hours ago, WRB said:

Looks like a Tru-Line blank, the reel seats alone weigh a lot. The Cardinal 7 reel is also a heavy salt size beast. How long is that 2 piece rod, I believe it was 7'?

How did you manage to find this rod? It looks to be in very good condition.

Thank you for sharing the photo.

Tom

 

I'll measure it the next time I get the chance - in storage at the moment. After Bill passed, the family sold some of his stuff locally on Craig's List. Pure dumb luck that I stumbled on the ad that night, and they were willing to ship from Cali to Indiana. I refused a book they were willing to throw in because i already had one. They said this rod was one of two they were selling that Bill built and used.

[WRB]

58 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

I'll measure it the next time I get the chance - in storage at the moment. After Bill passed, the family sold some of his stuff locally on Craig's List. Pure dumb luck that I stumbled on the ad that night, and they were willing to ship from Cali to Indiana. I refused a book they were willing to throw in because i already had one. They said this rod was one of two they were selling that Bill built and used.

Thank you, I was just curious how the rod ended up in Indiana and you don't need to measure the rod. Bill made most of his tackle including his lures. He was a very secretive, small group of close freinds and I was surprised when he wrote his book sharing information.

Tom

[Team9nine]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

Thank you, I was just curious how the rod ended up in Indiana and you don't need to measure the rod. Bill made most of his tackle including his lures. He was a very secretive, small group of close freinds and I was surprised when he wrote his book sharing information.

Tom

 

Tom - needed to check on boat and tackle in storage today anyway, so measured rod while there. 2 pieces, metal-metal ferrules and 7'8" long. Might surprise some people how "whippy" the upper section is, but I believe it probably had to be to help cushion the fight from truly giant bass. The bottom half is solid though. I believe I recall reading that he built these rods with each half being made out of completely different blank materials to get the exact action and qualities he wanted?

[WRB]

34 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

Tom - needed to check on boat and tackle in storage today anyway, so measured rod while there. 2 pieces, metal-metal ferrules and 7'8" long. Might surprise some people how "whippy" the upper section is, but I believe it probably had to be to help cushion the fight from truly giant bass. The bottom half is solid though. I believe I recall reading that he built these rods with each half being made out of completely different blank materials to get the exact action and qualities he wanted?

Bill did a lot of live bait fishing fly lining crawdads, shiners or soft plastic worms split shot rigged and using 14-17lb mono line. I believe this rod may have been designed for this purpose, the oversize guides and long flexible tip section allows the heavy stiff line to flow out using the unweighted live bait, common for California off shore albacore fishing for example. As you know Bill was very innovative and always experimenting with tackle and presentations to improve his success catching big bass.

What Bill didn't cover in his book is using trout swimbaits, he spent hours trolling them with good success. I can't remember who he was fishing with when they caught a 5 bass limit from San Vicente that weighed 72 lbs! I recall the lure he used was  1/2 CD 18 Rapala with a soft plastic trout tail end.

Anyway getting off topic, glad you have a piece of Murphy's history.

Tom

[deep]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

 

What Bill didn't cover in his book is using trout swimbaits, he spent hours trolling them with good success. I can't remember who he was fishing with when they caught a 5 bass limit from San Vicente that weighed 72 lbs! I recall the lure he used was  1/2 CD 18 Rapala with a soft plastic trout tail end.

Anyway getting off topic, glad you have a piece of Murphy's history.

Tom

 

http://bassfishingarchives.com/western/the-birth-of-the-swimbait

[WRB]

Thank you for finding that link.

Murphy used Monel wire line not leadcore to get his homemade swimbaits down to 40' at San V. Terry's article didn't mention the state record 5 bass limit Bill and his partner caught trolling a submerged island (hump) between the big island and the dam.

Alan Cole was a member of  Brown Baggers who trolling home made swimbaits for big brown trout at Flamming Gorge in Utah in the early 80's and that is where his AC plug came from.

I still have a few mid 70's Worm King 12" dynasour trout swimbaits and a Butcher 12' jointed modified trout musky lure I used back the late 70's.

Tom

[Catt]

@WRB & @Team9nine thanks for the short history lesson!

 

Little bits & pieces gleaned here & there help me understand the mindset behind the legend.

 

Many fail to understand catching bigger bass is a mindset

[thinkingredneck]

Fascinating book and fascinating conversations.  Tom, very good to get some clarity from someone who was/is there.  I fished near SD once in a rez.  Don't remember the name.  Absolutely the opposite of where I fish in MS with mostly shallow muddy water with a lot of plants. However I still think a lot of this applies.  Woild you modify and use a worm with appendages?

[Turtle135]

I have read the book and I do stitch plastic worms. While the book recommends trying various size worms to find out what the bass want that day I only use 10" and 12" worms here in Maryland and I only try it during the warmest months of the year. I reserve this technique for my "A" structural spots as I am committing to staying anchored in one spot for 5 - 6 hours.

 

Regarding the line take up. I use a baitcasting combo. I stitch with my right hand but instead of allowing a whole lot of loose line to pile up I use my left thumb on the spool to roll the line on the reel during the periods when I am dead sticking the worm. I find very small movements of the worm followed by excruciatingly long dead stick periods actually works best for me.

 

I suspect it works on my local reservoir (deep, clear water, heavy fishing pressure) because it is something those educated bass do not see everyday. I have to have the right mind set that day to employ the technique properly, that I am committed to one spot for hours on end for that one big bite.

 

In Maryland a "citation sized bass" is one that is 21" or longer, here is one of my stitched C's from Maryland.

 

 

[scaleface]

I never stitched for bass but i do hold the line between my index finger and thumb to feel for a bite .Often times my lift is so slow and weight heavy enough that the Texas rigged lure or jig just drags along the bottom .