Leader for surprise pike attacks...

[Skeeloco]

I'm not a fan of leaders at all, a lot because it's just one more thing to lose when I get snagged up. However I had pike cut my tube off three times this past week while fishing the upper Allegheny, so I've decided to do something about it. I'm just not sure what to use that can prevent the cut offs and at the same time won't spook the smallies. I have some 20lb wire leaders I use when throwing musky lures but they're seemingly too thick to make the smallies want to bite craw jigs and mess with the action of tubes. I'm fishing tubes and craw jigs 80% of the time, can anyone recommend a leader style suited to my liking?

[Crestliner2008]

Do a search on "Tieable wire leaders". I don't remember the company that makes this stuff, but it's out there.

[J Francho]

Cortland Toothy Critter is a good one, and relatively easy to find.  It's marketed as a fly leader, but it works great for typical bass gear.  20# size should be plenty.

 

Also, my friend spends two weeks on the St. Lawrence pike fishing.  He uses homemade steel leaders with big hair jgs and bunny strips for pike.  He catches some impressive smallmouth as a "bycatch" as he puts it.

[A-Jay]

Very good stuff.

Pike are in many places I smallie fish, especially early / season.

Any bait I do not want to risk getting bit off gets this. Mostly hardbaits & spinnerbaits, probably wouldn't use it for tubes.  I'd just tie on another one and or relocate.   Either way, this spring I managed to retain possession of all my jerkbaits, while still taking a few decent fish.

I use the 20lb camo the most.

A-Jay

 

[J Francho]

35 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

I'd just tie on another one and or relocate.

 

See, I want to catch the pike.

[tkunk]

37 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Very good stuff.

Pike are in many places I smallie fish, especially early / season.

Any bait I do not want to risk getting bit off get this. Mostly hardbaits & spinnerbaits, probably wouldn't use it for tubes.  I'd just tie on another one and or relocate.   Either way, this spring I managed to retain possession of all my jerkbaits, while still taking a few decent fish.

I use the 20lb camo the most.

A-Jay

 

There are many pike where I fish, so this looks interesting. What type of knot do you use to connect this type of leader to your main line? Maybe use a small swivel with a bead? I'm guessing you don't want it passing through your guides when you cast.

[J Francho]

I just use a triple surgeon's knot.

[A-Jay]

On 8/4/2017 at 2:09 PM, portiabrat said:

 

There are many pike where I fish, so this looks interesting. What type of knot do you use to connect this type of leader to your main line? Maybe use a small swivel with a bead? I'm guessing you don't want it passing through your guides when you cast.

I use a uni-to-uni Knot as recommended on the package - 

Lengths used vary between 14 and I guess 18 inches.

Too short and a big gator which swallows the bait could easily still be getting at my mainline. Too long seems like a waste of material.

Never want it going through the guides so I don't use a bead. - 

If you're using a presentation that spins - I guess a swivel would be appropriate but I do not go that way. 

Otherwise the knot is completely sufficient.

If I'm changing baits frequently I may add a small clip to the bitter end.

 While taking some decent smallies last fall with a RES and a spinnerbait - this was some of the by -catch. 

The leader material clearly saved the day - it always does. 

A-Jay

 

[Further North]

To follow up on AJ's recommendation, I use the AFW Surflon and like it a lot.

 

I also use Tyger Leader.  Harder to find, but it's on Amazon.  A little more flexible than Surflon.

 

Like AJ, I tie my leaders long - you'd be hard pressed to find one under a foot, and most approach 18", at least when they are new.

 

I use either an FG knot (my preference, smallest diameter, hands down) or an Alberto.  Both work great, so will the Uni-to-uni AJ mentioned.

 

At the business end, I'll rig it one of three ways:

1. If I'm running soft plastics, say on an EWG hook, I'll tie right to the hook, usually with a Palomar or a three wrap Trilene knot.  I have several rods set up this way all the time, two or three of which are Texas Rigged with weights that easily slide over the FG knot joining the leader to the main line.  If you do this, I'd highly recommend putting a plastic bead between the weight and the knot, the weight will beat the knot pretty badly over time if you don't.  I can shoot a pic of this if you'd like, it's not something you'll see a lot of.
2. If I'm running lures that don't spin (crank bait, etc.), I'll tie in a clip of some kind.  I've been using a lot of the Mustad Fastach clips ( http://mustad-fishing.com/am/product/ultrapoint-fastach-clip-ftc/ ) the last couple years, really like them, and they've held you to everything from bass to 48" muskies. I like to tie the clip in with some kind of loop knot: I like the Perfection Loop, but others work just fine.
3. If I am throwing a lure that spins, I'll run a swivel with some kind of snap attached.  As above, I've been using a lot of the Mustad Fastach clips pre-rigged to swivels.  They work great.  I don't feel the need to tie these in with a loop knot...but I still do that sometimes.

On all of those, it is critical to get the leader material wet as you can and keep it that way: You'll create a pig-tail in a heartbeat if you don't and this stuff isn't cheap...

 

I check my main line and my leaders a lot...and re-tie if I'm seeing or feeling any problems...but even with that said, I know I've got at least three rods out there right now that were rigged last season and are doing just fine.

 

One of the best parts of rigging this way for me is that I do reel the bait/lure all the way to the rod  tip; I don't wind up with a foot of leader hanging from the end of the rod when I cast.  The FG knot in particular will run right up in the guides, even on micro guides as long as your line and leader are not too thick.  I've never had any kind of issue with the guides on the rods and I fish a lot...

 

I adopted rigging this way from the fly fishing leaders I use for toothy critters, only to find that plenty of gear fishermen were doing the same thing.  Works great on fly rigs too.

 

BTW: I catch all kinds of bass on the leader equipped rigs.  Maybe our bass are stupid, but they don't mind the leaders here in WI, nor do the ones in Canada, at least that I have found.

 

[MNGeorge]

6 hours ago, Further North said:

To follow up on AJ's recommendation, I use the AFW Surflon and like it a lot.

 

I also use Tyger Leader.  Harder to find, but it's on Amazon.  A little more flexible than Surflon.

 

Like AJ, I tie my leaders long - you'd be hard pressed to find one under a foot, and most approach 18", at least when they are new.

 

I use either an FG knot (my preference, smallest diameter, hands down) or an Alberto.  Both work great, so will the Uni-to-uni AJ mentioned.

 

At the business end, I'll rig it one of three ways:

1. If I'm running soft plastics, say on an EWG hook, I'll tie right to the hook, usually with a Palomar or a three wrap Trilene knot.  I have several rods set up this way all the time, two or three of which are Texas Rigged with weights that easily slide over the FG knot joining the leader to the main line.  If you do this, I'd highly recommend putting a plastic bead between the weight and the knot, the weight will beat the knot pretty badly over time if you don't.  I can shoot a pic of this if you'd like, it's not something you'll see a lot of.
2. If I'm running lures that don't spin (crank bait, etc.), I'll tie in a clip of some kind.  I've been using a lot of the Mustad Fastach clips ( http://mustad-fishing.com/am/product/ultrapoint-fastach-clip-ftc/ ) the last couple years, really like them, and they've held you to everything from bass to 48" muskies. I like to tie the clip in with some kind of loop knot: I like the Perfection Loop, but others work just fine.
3. If I am throwing a lure that spins, I'll run a swivel with some kind of snap attached.  As above, I've been using a lot of the Mustad Fastach clips pre-rigged to swivels.  They work great.  I don't feel the need to tie these in with a loop knot...but I still do that sometimes.

On all of those, it is critical to get the leader material wet as you can and keep it that way: You'll create a pig-tail in a heartbeat if you don't and this stuff isn't cheap...

 

I check my main line and my leaders a lot...and re-tie if I'm seeing or feeling any problems...but even with that said, I know I've got at least three rods out there right now that were rigged last season and are doing just fine.

 

One of the best parts of rigging this way for me is that I do reel the bait/lure all the way to the rod  tip; I don't wind up with a foot of leader hanging from the end of the rod when I cast.  The FG knot in particular will run right up in the guides, even on micro guides as long as your line and leader are not too thick.  I've never had any kind of issue with the guides on the rods and I fish a lot...

 

I adopted rigging this way from the fly fishing leaders I use for toothy critters, only to find that plenty of gear fishermen were doing the same thing.  Works great on fly rigs too.

 

BTW: I catch all kinds of bass on the leader equipped rigs.  Maybe our bass are stupid, but they don't mind the leaders here in WI, nor do the ones in Canada, at least that I have found.

 

What is an FG knot?

[Further North]

7 hours ago, MNGeorge said:

What is an FG knot?

That is one way to to tie it, there are others.

 

It looks slow and cumbersome in th evideo, but if it works for you (some folks never get comfortable with it) you can tie it in a couple minutes even on your boat.

 

As I mention above, it'll last for weeks, it not months so you're not tying it often.

[Wee Hooker]

I ran into a similar situation some years back on the St. Croix river  on the ME/CA border. The place holds 95% smallies but a few weedy bars had packs of  2-4#  pike . Being a sucker for a good surface strike, I kept casting to those bars which decimated my popper supply in short order.  That was the last time I went fly fishing anywhere without some bite leaders tucked away.

After some experimentation, I now make 6" ultra thin wire leaders from  Mason Single Strand Stainless wire and stock a few in my fly bag. I start with about 10" of the 58# tobacco colored size and twist a small haywire loop in both ends. On one end though, I capture a small snap ( as used on spinning gear) in that loop.  The looped end is tied into the leader and the snapped end is used to attach  my flie/popper (and change them out easily as they get destroyed.  )This wire is about as thick as 14# test so casts easily and is not  that visible. 

Not saying there isn't anything new/better out there but this has worked for me on everything from pike to bluefish for over a decade. 

 

 

http://www.masontackle.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=155

[MNGeorge]

18 hours ago, Further North said:

That is one way to to tie it, there are others.

 

It looks slow and cumbersome in th evideo, but if it works for you (some folks never get comfortable with it) you can tie it in a couple minutes even on your boat.

 

As I mention above, it'll last for weeks, it not months so you're not tying it often.

Thanks

[Doelman]

I've caught hundreds of smallies in Quetico and have only been cut off a handful of times by pike, I've always used 30 lb fluorocarbon seaguar blue for a leader. 

[Further North]

On 8/7/2017 at 8:58 PM, Wee Hooker said:

I ran into a similar situation some years back on the St. Croix river  on the ME/CA border. The place holds 95% smallies but a few weedy bars had packs of  2-4#  pike . Being a sucker for a good surface strike, I kept casting to those bars which decimated my popper supply in short order.  That was the last time I went fly fishing anywhere without some bite leaders tucked away.

After some experimentation, I now make 6" ultra thin wire leaders from  Mason Single Strand Stainless wire and stock a few in my fly bag. I start with about 10" of the 58# tobacco colored size and twist a small haywire loop in both ends. On one end though, I capture a small snap ( as used on spinning gear) in that loop.  The looped end is tied into the leader and the snapped end is used to attach  my flie/popper (and change them out easily as they get destroyed.  )This wire is about as thick as 14# test so casts easily and is not  that visible. 

Not saying there isn't anything new/better out there but this has worked for me on everything from pike to bluefish for over a decade. 

 

 

http://www.masontackle.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=155

Interesting.

 

I will occasionally rig a rod with Knot-2-Kinky which is a single strand "elastic titanium alloy".  Pretty cool stuff, but knotting it always makes me a little nervous.  I tie it to the main line (braid on gear rigs, usually fluoro on fly rigs) with an Alberto knot because the FG won't work (slides off the wire).  On the business end I typically use a double surgeon's loop with a snap or a swivel-snap already captured in it.

 

On most recent trip to Canada, our most productive lure was a #5 Mepps tossed on a custom built crank bait rod rigged as described above...50# Sufix 832 to the Knot-2-Kinky leader with a Mustad Fastach clip on a swivel.  Landed too many smallies and pike to count and several muskies including a 37".

 

I will take a hard look at the Mason leader material.

[bigbill]

On 8/10/2017 at 10:20 PM, Further North said:

Interesting.

 

I will occasionally rig a rod with Knot-2-Kinky which is a single strand "elastic titanium alloy".  Pretty cool stuff, but knotting it always makes me a little nervous.  I tie it to the main line (braid on gear rigs, usually fluoro on fly rigs) with an Alberto knot because the FG won't work (slides off the wire).  On the business end I typically use a double surgeon's loop with a snap or a swivel-snap already captured in it.

 

On most recent trip to Canada, our most productive lure was a #5 Mepps tossed on a custom built crank bait rod rigged as described above...50# Sufix 832 to the Knot-2-Kinky leader with a Mustad Fastach clip on a swivel.  Landed too many smallies and pike to count and several muskies including a 37".

 

I will take a hard look at the Mason leader material.

Walmart has those thin but strong wire leaders with the eye to eye swivel at one end and a locking snap swivel at the other end.

[Further North]

5 hours ago, bigbill said:

Walmart has those thin but strong wire leaders with the eye to eye swivel at one end and a locking snap swivel at the other end.

I've seen them...I don't want a swivel at the lane to leader connection, I want the line to leader connection to be able to go through the guides.

[Nicholas Frederick]

Eagle claw makes  micro fiber leader that I use works great they are called micro leaders they usually carry them at Walmart.