Braid guys - what's your take?

[Team9nine]

Given the frequent discussions on this site around braid, I thought Seth Feider's comment was interesting after nearly pulling off the Elite win this weekend. He was using 40 lb. 832 with a 20# fluoro leader. 

 

His reel was spooled with braided line, but he said it was critical to attach the jig to a 3- to 4-foot fluorocarbon leader. "I couldn't get bit on just straight braid," he said.
 

So braid guys, what's your take? Sponsored shill for fluoro, or legitimate case where straight braid wouldn't cut it?

 

Enquiring minds want to know 

[J Francho]

Was this at Champ?  I say shill, unless he was at the north end, which I doubt.

[bigturtle]

I always use a leader when possible, theres no downside and you don't have to worry about whether your leader matters or not

[Choporoz]

I won't speculate as to whether the fish cared.  I have no reason to doubt that the pro believed it was important. 

[CroakHunter]

100 percent it affected his fishing, whether the fish could see his line is beyond my educational background. But I am a braid guy, and use a leader for every technique except frogging. It's a confidence thing for me. I would say Thats why he couldn't get bites on straight braid. Happened to me the blast tourney i fished, threw around straight braid, no bites, picked up the rod with the leader in it and started wacking the big ones. 

[RichF]

I grew up fishing the super clear, grass filled lakes of upstate NY..  I've always been able to catch bass flipping in those conditions with straight braid (that's the way I fish 90% of the time).  I think that Seth thinks it makes a difference but I also doubt he gave straight braid that much of a chance.  I bet he saw clear water and thought he needed something the fish couldn't "see."  I use 20lb fluoro quite a bit...it's more than visible.  

[A-Jay]

I watched much of that event on 'bass live'.

Most of the coverage on Seth showed him making very short, possibly target oriented, presentations in the grass.

At hook set, he was often at or very close to vertical on the fish.

Most times the bass was up and out of the grass & into the boat is just a few seconds.

Had the fish been a little more 'buried' in the grass, the nylon may have been somewhat detrimental as it can often get bogged down rather than cutting through it.

As it turned out, seems it helped with getting bites (or at least he believed it did) and didn't seem to adversely affect the landing ratio.

He did catch quite a few very respectable Green bass and even at least one brown one doing it.

A-Jay

[fishindad]

8 minutes ago, RichF said:

I grew up fishing the super clear, grass filled lakes of upstate NY..  I've always been able to catch bass flipping in those conditions with straight braid (that's the way I fish 90% of the time).  I think that Seth thinks it makes a difference but I also doubt he gave straight braid that much of a chance.  I bet he saw clear water and thought he needed something the fish couldn't "see."  I use 20lb fluoro quite a bit...it's more than visible.  

Though I've never fished those waters in upstate NY, I would guess they are very similar to waters I fish here in MI (clear, mesotrophic) and what Seth F. fishes in MN. I agree with Rich that Seth probably threw a few casts with straight braid and was/is so dialed in to that presentation and the fish that he made that adjustment for whatever reason - rate of fall, toothy critters, visibility, etc and it worked. 

[Attila]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

Was this at Champ?  I say shill, unless he was at the north end, which I doubt.

 

Much like @A-Jay I was watching on Bass Live and it looked like he was due east from the launch site on the eastern part of the lake. Definitely not south of the launch.

 

I think the fluoro helped him a lot; I know it helps me a lot when I fish topwaters in really pressured, clear water.

[A-Jay]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 0:42 PM, Attila said:

 

I think the fluoro helped him a lot; I know it helps me a lot when I fish topwaters in really pressured, clear water.

 

Fluorocarbon line & Topwater ~ That's down right Blasphemous ~ ! 

A-Jay

[fishballer06]

There was an interesting bit on BassLive Friday afternoon with Jason Christie. Jason had a small limit and came upon a grassy area and he was flipping it. He culled out his whole livewell in a matter of 15 minutes in this one area. They commented that they noticed he was using a very heavy sinker in some not so heavy grass. So the cameraman asked Christie what size sinker he was using and why so big?

 

Jason's response was along the lines of "I'm using straight braid right now, so I'm using a 1.25oz tungsten sinker so that the fall rate is so fast that the fish don't even have time to focus on the braid in the water. They're just going to see this bait falling so quickly that they react to it and bite."

[MTPanda]

I always tie a leader on my braid.  Running pure fluoro is too expensive and braid lasts awhile.  I just tie an FG knot and I'm good to go.  I don't like pure mono either because of the line memory as well so its pure braid with fluoro leaders and mono leaders for top water

 

I drop shot and finesse fish a lot so I need whatever help I can get to hide my presentation. 

[Choporoz]

1 minute ago, fishballer06 said:

There was an interesting bit on BassLive Friday afternoon with Jason Christie. Jason had a small limit and came upon a grassy area and he was flipping it. He culled out his whole livewell in a matter of 15 minutes in this one area. They commented that they noticed he was using a very heavy sinker in some not so heavy grass. So the cameraman asked Christie what size sinker he was using and why so big?

 

Jason's response was along the lines of "I'm using straight braid right now, so I'm using a 1.25oz tungsten sinker so that the fall rate is so fast that the fish don't even have time to focus on the braid in the water. They're just going to see this bait falling so quickly that they react to it and bite."

Had anyone other than an elite said this, I'd have rolled my eyes and stiffled a chuckle...no...I still rolled my eyes and chuckled.  It this another new technique we need to learn?  Or, was he just conking then on the head with that small brick and the dazed fish didn't know what they were biting?  I mean....what???

[moguy1973]

Finesse fishing=leader since the bass have a chance to look at the bait a bit.

Reaction fishing(ie cranks, a-rig, fast falling baits, topwater)=straight braid

[Scott F]

55 minutes ago, bigturtle said:

I always use a leader when possible, theres no downside and you don't have to worry about whether your leader matters or not

For me, there is a downside to using leaders, which is why I don't use them. Having to keep leader line around, tying extra knots, and having that knot go through my guides on every cast is the downside.

For the pros, I get that they have to try everything they can to put fish in the boat. If there is even a chance that using leaders, scent, electronic fish callers, shutting down depthfinders, or not using trolling motors will put even one more bass in the livewell, they have to do it. I'm not a pro. My lively hood does not depend on me landing every possible fish. I don't have to, and choose not to, go to extremes to catch bass. I do just fine not using leaders, or scent, or technique specific rods. I fish for fun and want to keep it as simple as I can. I seldom get skunked and I enjoy my time on the water.

If whatever the pros do works for them, or works for you...go for it.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

There's just too many variables to assign definitive cause and affect of tweaks in presentation. It could just as well been a timing thing. We can only guess what's in his heart and mind. 

[J Francho]

9 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

It this another new technique we need to learn?  Or, was he just conking then on the head with that small brick and the dazed fish didn't know what they were biting?  I mean....what???

 

This is not new.  Using a heavy weight for a speed drop/reaction bite is pretty old school. 

[Choporoz]

No....but doing it because you're worried about the fish seeing your braid might be

[sully420]

I only use leaders on spinning gear, if im useing casting fear i fish braid or floro i dont use leaders on casting gear. When i want the advantages of braid i fish braid and im trying to get a reaction. When i want floro for its sinking ability and invisibility and resistance to pike amd musky teeth i use only floro. I find high quality floro can last for a long time. If seth has confidence in what he was doing than that helped him catch fish.

[J Francho]

7 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

No....but doing it because you're worried about the fish seeing your braid might be

 

You're kidding right?  There's a billion and one threads dealing with that since the beginning of braid.  That has to be the most often cited reason for using a leader.  I think in most cases, it's hooey.  I use a leader for other reasons, or more often use straight whatever leader I'd use.  In most cases, I feel like the "best of both worlds" argument is actually combining the worst traits of both.

[Attila]

48 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Fluorocarbon line & Topwater ~ That down right Blasphemous ~ ! 

A-Jay

 

Yup, that's me...breaking the rules for the worse.

[Attila]

41 minutes ago, moguy1973 said:

Finesse fishing=leader since the bass have a chance to look at the bait a bit.

Reaction fishing(ie cranks, a-rig, fast falling baits, topwater)=straight braid

 

What if you fish straight fluorocarbon for crankbaits and spinnerbaits?  What if I only use braid for walking style topwaters and use a fluorocarbon leader on poppers which have a frog pattern on them that smallies are coming right up to and looking at during a long, 30 second pause?

 

Thing is, every presentation may have a nuance to it. It's these nuances that pros and some co's are trying to pick up on which make them more successful.

 

I'm not going to get into the whole bass can see braid argument...I don't have time. I do know that for me, certain presentations work better running either straight fluorocarbon or a leader of the same. What works for me might not work for others. Has my mind ever been changed? Yes, because before last year I only used mono for topwaters, crankbaits, and jerkbaits.

 

Heck at least one member here throws his jerkbaits on tieable wire and still catches 5-6lbs smallmouth; what does that do this whole argument?

 

Anyways, just my 0.02 worth on this matter...

[Burtonxj]

I usually throw a flouro leader on. Just a confidence thing for me.

[RichF]

1 hour ago, fishballer06 said:

There was an interesting bit on BassLive Friday afternoon with Jason Christie. Jason had a small limit and came upon a grassy area and he was flipping it. He culled out his whole livewell in a matter of 15 minutes in this one area. They commented that they noticed he was using a very heavy sinker in some not so heavy grass. So the cameraman asked Christie what size sinker he was using and why so big?

 

Jason's response was along the lines of "I'm using straight braid right now, so I'm using a 1.25oz tungsten sinker so that the fall rate is so fast that the fish don't even have time to focus on the braid in the water. They're just going to see this bait falling so quickly that they react to it and bite."

 

Christie's response was pretty darned professional if you ask me.  The pros know that a big part of their job is to promote, not just their sponsors products, but fishing products in general.  Christie knows that tackle companies have been pushing the idea of line-shy fish for a long time so he had to provide an explanation for why he was seemingly contradicting that notion while crushing bass using braid in super shallow, gin clear water.  I actually applaud him for providing a "plausible" explanation on the fly like that.  

 

[jr231]

All my reels, spinning and casting are spooled with braid. The sensitivity, managibility and casting distance are the main reasons . The strength to diameter factor is nice too. That being said, There are quite a few advantages of using a leader other than the obvious and most raved about visibility factor... Using fluoro leader offers a slightly faster sink rate when fishing soft plastics which seems to be big for me in the summer. It will also help keep a jerkbait down on a longer pause... The biggest plus about a leader for me is I can break it off if I get hung up without wasting a bunch of braid. Mono leaders are nice for treble hook baits and its straight braid for me with any top water. 

 

I fished with straight braid for about 8 years and never found bass to be line shy... But the other advantages a leader offers has pushed me in that direction for certain applications .