Settle a bet for me

[pauldconyers]

A buddy and I have a small bet that needs to be settled. Regarding a spinning reel obviously you manually flip the bail over and cast it out. Here is where the question comes. When you start the retrieve do you manually flip it back closed OR do you start turning the real and let the reel flip it over? One of us says you let the reel flip the bail over by starting the retrieve because that's what it is designed to do. The other says that you can do it that was but it is such a hard, violent flip over that it will do long term damage to the reel and that you should do it yourself manually to avoid that.

 

WHO'S RIGHT???

[CTBassin860]

You're both wrong.

[IndianaFinesse]

You're both wrong to some degree, unless you are really jerking the bail closed when turning the reel handle.  The biggest negative of closing it automatically IMHO is that it twists the line. I close the bail manually, using my hand to slowly feather the line while closing it on the spool and closing the bail at the end of the cast. 

[pauldconyers]

20 minutes ago, MassBassin508 said:

You're both wrong.

Care to elaborate on what the correct method would be???

[papajoe222]

11 minutes ago, pauldconyers said:

Care to elaborate on what the correct method would be???

Flip the reel into the lake and get a baitcaster.

Just kidding.  For optimum reel life and the least amount of frustration due to line twist, closing the bail by hand is the answer.

[tcbass]

I was told that using the reel would wear it out so I only manually close the bail and start reeling now.

[pauldconyers]

2 minutes ago, papajoe222 said:

Flip the reel into the lake and get a baitcaster.

Just kidding.  For optimum reel life and the least amount of frustration due to line twist, closing the bail by hand is the answer.

I didn't say I was the fool using a spinning reel... I'm just the fool posting the question

[riverbasser]

How much is riding on this bet? For 10% I'll tell you the answer

[Gundog]

Engage the bail by hand. You will eventually break the bail spring if you don't. Also it puts undue hardship on the internal gears. Trust me, I know. 

[Bluebasser86]

Closing the bail manually is the correct way to do it. Closing it turning the reel handle will cause reel and line issues eventually. 

[ClackerBuzz]

19 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

 Closing it turning the reel handle will cause reel and line issues eventually. 

to expand on this...the fastest way to expose these line issues/half loops/twists is to cast into a good stiff wind

[Sam]

Manually flip the spinning reel's bail by hand.

 

Otherwise you are asking for trouble as penned above.

[NHBull]

Like the others have said, flipping the bail is a must.....

 

.....and feathering the line taught on the spool is important for line management.

It becomes second nature 

 

Flip

Run your hand up the pole or pull back on the tip

 

I often flip as the bait hits the water and all is good

[MickD]

Can anyone tell me the mechanics of using the reel to close the bail causing line twist?  I have always believed that for every loop of line going out, every rotation of the bail coming in will cancel the twist caused by the loop going out.  Seems like it's all one to one regardless of the method.  What am I missing?

[Team9nine]

8 minutes ago, MickD said:

Can anyone tell me the mechanics of using the reel to close the bail causing line twist?  I have always believed that for every loop of line going out, every rotation of the bail coming in will cancel the twist caused by the loop going out.  Seems like it's all one to one regardless of the method.  What am I missing?

 

I don't think you're missing anything, and side with you in this argument. Closing the bail mechanically, rather than by hand, should have no effect on line twist. It is likely tougher on the gears, and also more likely to trap those tiny loops of loose line that are the beginnings of an eventual wind knot, but not line twisting. Things like lures spinning, either on the cast or in the water upon retrieve, reeling against your drag, etc. are the primary culprits behind line twist. 

[NYWayfarer]

I had to break the habit of closing the bail mechanically as I have done it that way all my life. I now close it by hand and worry less about line twist, broken bail springs and all the other bad things mentioned above.

 

 

[MickD]

1 hour ago, Finesse Wayfarer said:

I had to break the habit of closing the bail mechanically as I have done it that way all my life. I now close it by hand and worry less about line twist, broken bail springs and all the other bad things mentioned above.

 

 

 

I agree it's better for the reel to close it by hand, what I'm asking about is the line twist issue, or non-issue.  Why do you think that line twist is worse if you let the reel close the bail?  Sometimes what we worry about are not valid worries.  Someone said something as if it is fact, and we believe it and worry.  There very well could be line twist caused by letting the reel close the bail, but I've heard nothing here or anywhere else that explains why this should be true.

[Choporoz]

I don't believe it is to manage 'twist'.  Closing by hand almost always prevents the twists from looping on the spool.  I don't know if its because my fingers pull the loop out first...or if my hand closes the bail faster than doing it mechanically....but I'm pretty sure it is about preventing twist-loops from magically appearing on your spool...not to prevent any additional twist

[earthworm77]

I manually close the bail not because of damage to the reel by not doing so, but because manually closing the reel prevents any chance of a pool of line getting loops on the spool and causing line twist or tangles later on.

[Team9nine]

21 minutes ago, MickD said:

 

I agree it's better for the reel to close it by hand, what I'm asking about is the line twist issue, or non-issue.  Why do you think that line twist is worse if you let the reel close the bail?  Sometimes what we worry about are not valid worries.  Someone said something as if it is fact, and we believe it and worry.  There very well could be line twist caused by letting the reel close the bail, but I've heard nothing here or anywhere else that explains why this should be true.

 

That's because it probably isn't true  Line twist in spinning reels largely occurs when the number of loops that came off the spool doesn't equal the number of twists put back on the spool by bail rotation. How exactly you close the bail arm has nothing to do with that equation. It does have a lot to do, like the above two posters just mentioned, with loose line and trapping loops...but that's a different issue.

[Choporoz]

I'd like to add that it took me nearly 50 years to learn to close the bail manually...and to commit to doing it religiously.  And every time, it still bugs me ......every single cast..... that I can't use the reel as designed. 

[Bucky205]

LOL,  If you use your fingers for drag instead of the reel it will also increase reel life. If you don't run your trolling motor through thick stuff. If you don't run your boat at full speed. Your rifle will last longer if you don't shoot it a lot.  Lighten the use and increase the life holds true for most mechanical devices. IMO, they are all tools, don't abuse them and keep them clean, use them to get the job done, then repair or replace.

 

 

[Fishes in trees]

My first decent spinning reel - a Garcia Mitchell 300 purchased in. 1976 - wouldn't let you close the bail manually.  You had to turn the handle to flip the bail over.  Every so often, you broke a bail spring.  This was a popular reel and a well known problem.  The 2 tackle shops in Columbia, MO always had extra bail springs on hand.

 

These days, flipping the bail by hand, just seems more sensible and natural to me.  You take a fraction of a second, look down and see that the line is "right" and then flip the bail.  It is pretty much unconscious now, in that I don't think about it, I just do it.

[The Bassman]

You know you've got it mastered when feathering the line and closing the bail is one smooth motion with the index finger. Occasionally the bail isn't oriented just right for that but most of the time it is.

[MIbassyaker]

10 hours ago, MickD said:

 

I agree it's better for the reel to close it by hand, what I'm asking about is the line twist issue, or non-issue.  Why do you think that line twist is worse if you let the reel close the bail?  Sometimes what we worry about are not valid worries.  Someone said something as if it is fact, and we believe it and worry.  There very well could be line twist caused by letting the reel close the bail, but I've heard nothing here or anywhere else that explains why this should be true.

 

I agree with this a lot. There is a lot of confusion about causes of line twist in spinning reels.  I can think of no reason why twist should be created by using the reel to close the bail. I'm virtually certain that the vast majority of twist is caused simply by reeling, as one twist is put into the line every time the bail goes around. It is clear this is happening if you watch a leader knot closely as it travels through the guides while reeling in -- the knot will rotate at the same rate as the bail on the reel.  other factors can exacerbate the twist -- for instance, reeling against the drag, as the reeling creates additional rotations as less line comes in, i.e., more rotations per unit of line pickup. But that's still a secondary source of twist -- unless you're reeling against the drag A LOT, I don't see how that can create more twist than simply making another cast and retrieving it back in.

 

When people complain about twist, what they're really complaining about is twist becoming unmanageable, which can be caused easily by lapses in keeping the line tight, or otherwise not staying in control of the line. This is where closing the bail by hand comes into play -- by doing so you exert manual control where and how exactly the line is put back under the bail, and you cut down on the likelihood of stray loops and tangles (created by twist that is already there) getting caught on the spool as you begin reeling.