ICAST 17 Counterfeits Caught !

[ChrisD46]

Here's one you don't see everyday - seems a Chinese company came to ICAST 17 with counterfeit soft plastics which were displayed in the "new" products showcase (goggle to find) . Really sneaky how it happened : Last year at ICAST 16 the Chinese group distracted members of a well known soft plastics bait company while another Chinese member photographed the baits (most likely this process repeated itself with other well known soft plastics bait companies) . Next thing you know here at ICAST 17 this bunch from China show up with counterfeit copies of what they studied from the year before ! The Chinese folks responsible got a swift , firm taste of the American legal  system  as a result ... *Before exiting , I think I would have gone : "Bruce Lee" on a couple of the more vocal Chinese (just to keep my skills up) .

[WRB]

If you are referencing the Strike King Rage Tail patent infringement issue keep in mind China doesn't honor patents. Infringement can only occur if a copied product is sold, then a  law suit occurs to win damages or a royalty agreement.

Just one more reason not to buy Chinese made products.

Tom

[CybrSlydr]

I read a story on this a few weeks back - I think the Chinese defense was that they were displaying their ability to produce the baits and their manufacture process rather than attempting to sell the clearly counterfeit lures/baits.

 

Talk about gumption!  Glad to see they were met with a swift boot to the behind!

[jr231]

I've been seeing all kinds of baits with flanges on their appendages. If SK has a patent and/or copyright then there must be ways around it because I'm seeing it everywhere. Keithechs crazy flapper has similar flanges for an example. 

 

And I just seen a bait on a tackle store website that looked similar to a missile baits d-bomb with flanges on the appendages like a rage tail.  Riot baits I believe is who makes it. 

[CybrSlydr]

57 minutes ago, Yeajray231 said:

I've been seeing all kinds of baits with flanges on their appendages. If SK has a patent and/or copyright then there must be ways around it because I'm seeing it everywhere. Keithechs crazy flapper has similar flanges for an example. 

 

And I just seen a bait on a tackle store website that looked similar to a missile baits d-bomb with flanges on the appendages like a rage tail.  Riot baits I believe is who makes it. 

 

No, the difference is that they were exact copies, not something like they took an appendage and went with it.

 

Damned if I can find the article...

 

EDIT:  Found it! 

 

http://fishingtackleretailer.com/weird-wonderful-icast-far

[fishwizzard]

2 hours ago, CybrSlydr said:

I think the Chinese defense was that they were displaying their ability to produce the baits and their manufacture process rather than attempting to sell the clearly counterfeit lures/baits.

 

 

 

That is something an OEM manufacturer would do though.  But I imagine that the rest of the marketing package in their booth would make it pretty clear what was going on, it would eather be a "Wanna sell our awesome baits?" or "Wanna hire us to make your awsome baits?" type pitch, so I am sure the ICAST lawyers had more info then us to go on.  

 

 

[CybrSlydr]

24 minutes ago, Bunnielab said:

 

That is something an OEM manufacturer would do though.  But I imagine that the rest of the marketing package in their booth would make it pretty clear what was going on, it would eather be a "Wanna sell our awesome baits?" or "Wanna hire us to make your awsome baits?" type pitch, so I am sure the ICAST lawyers had more info then us to go on.  

 

 

Yeah, I found the link I was talking about above which explains it a bit better.

[dsqui]

Ya but look how many companies knock off good baits look how many knock off senkos there are.  Or here is a better example of a knock off being way cheaper.the rick clunn knock off vision 110 from 25 down to 7 that's. A huge price gap.  But I bet his knock offs were still there.  Look how many companies have knocked off or basically copied other baits 

[Nor-Cal Basser]

4 minutes ago, dsqui said:

Ya but look how many companies knock off good baits look how many knock off senkos there are.  Or here is a better example of a knock off being way cheaper.the rick clunn knock off vision 110 from 25 down to 7 that's. A huge price gap.  But I bet his knock offs were still there.  Look how many companies have knocked off or basically copied other baits 

You have to remember that, legally speaking, the Senko and Rick Clubb "knock offs" aren't exact copies. There are enough differences between products to be legally considered separate patents so that they do not infringe on an already existing patent. These may be very, very tiny differences, but they are enough to be legally considered completely different products than the original.

[WRB]

Senko wasn't patented, Rwge Tail is!

Tom

[fishwizzard]

19 minutes ago, WRB said:

Senko wasn't patented, Rwge Tail is!

Tom

 

That is odd, did he not try, or was it rejected?  

[dsqui]

4 hours ago, Nor-Cal Basser said:

You have to remember that, legally speaking, the Senko and Rick Clubb "knock offs" aren't exact copies. There are enough differences between products to be legally considered separate patents so that they do not infringe on an already existing patent. These may be very, very tiny differences, but they are enough to be legally considered completely different products than the original.

Oh trust me I get it I'm happy they were caught.  It's not right to steal someone else's work and claim it for your own but as stated above China don't honor out patents.  On the other hand out patents aren't the greatest either when considering someone can change.somethong so minute and find a way around them.  I work in the Rv industry and have a friend that designed and patnlented a tire rack 3 months later.some one copied his idea used different size bolts and stole his design.  Patents are only as good as the lawyers behind them.

[david in va]

 China has been doing that with Golf Clubs for years , about  10 years ago they were making Callaway drivers that looked just like the originals

[Gundog]

13 minutes ago, david in va said:

 China has been doing that with everything for years , about  10 years ago they were making everything that looked just like the originals

Fixed it for ya!

[MichaelCopeland]

3 minutes ago, Gundog said:

Fixed it for ya!

Lmbo! Sad but true! ?

[Cgolf]

So who ultimately came up with that tail style? I have some older Yum Woolee Bullees that have something similar? If must not take much to get around the patent, because Bizz Baits have that bump on the edge too. 

 

So if the patent is so easy to get around, why would anyone bother with getting a patent?

[WRB]

6 hours ago, Bunnielab said:

 

That is odd, did he not try, or was it rejected?  

Very few fishing lures have a patent today. You can't disclose the product before you apply for a patent and why would anyone in the fishing lure business waste money for a patent unless you know in advance you can recover the cost and cost to protect it.

I realize Steve Parks designed and developed Rage Tail and Strike King owns the patent. If anyone had prior art of Rage Tail design or the design was disclosed prior to 1 year before the patent is defeated and that is a big risk.

I don't know of any Gary Yamamoto lure patents.

Tom

[Catt]

What got me was the name on the package was "Rage Tail"!

 

A patent does not give a right to make or use or sell an invention. Rather, a patent provides, from a legal standpoint, the right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing the patented invention for the term of the patent, which is usually 20 years from the filing date subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

It is my understanding that Strike King does not hold the patent on Rage Tail, Steve Parks the inventor does. He gives Strike King right to make, use, & sell his invention.

 

Patents, however, are enforced on a nation by nation basis. The making of an item in China, for example, that would infringe a U.S. patent, would not constitute infringement under US patent law unless the item were imported into the US.

[WRB]

You can't prevent someone from making a patent item, you can send them a cease and desist order telling them to stop making your patent item and sue them for infringement damages. I have several patents and been through this many times. There or were 8 countries who honored a US patent, however you must file in each country. 

Sounds like Steve Parks has a license agreement with Strike King to make and sell his Rage Tail, and the name has copyright,that's another issue.

Tom

[iabass8]

21 hours ago, cgolf said:

So who ultimately came up with that tail style? I have some older Yum Woolee Bullees that have something similar? If must not take much to get around the patent, because Bizz Baits have that bump on the edge too. 

 

So if the patent is so easy to get around, why would anyone bother with getting a patent?

Bizz baits craw isn't original. It's a mass produced "702 craw mold" that 900 other companies make. Lots of places sell that mold. Their pour material, injection, and scent is the only thing that varies from others. I had a company years ago pour me a custom 702 color. The claws are actually different from rage craw's flange. 

[Cgolf]

14 hours ago, Catt said:

What got me was the name on the package was "Rage Tail"!

 

A patent does not give a right to make or use or sell an invention. Rather, a patent provides, from a legal standpoint, the right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing the patented invention for the term of the patent, which is usually 20 years from the filing date subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

It is my understanding that Strike King does not hold the patent on Rage Tail, Steve Parks the inventor does. He gives Strike King right to make, use, & sell his invention.

 

Patents, however, are enforced on a nation by nation basis. The making of an item in China, for example, that would infringe a U.S. patent, would not constitute infringement under US patent law unless the item were imported into the US.

 

The article also showed a bag labeled Paca craw or chunk as well. If they truly were trying to be an OEM pouring house, they definately seem to have gone about it in the wrong way. In the article they made it sound like Steve tried to reach out to them last year and failed, so again maybe they just screwed up and handled it wrong. Not defending them, but I am guessing things are done different there vs here. 

[Catt]

What I read was either on Steve Park's or Rage Tail's Facebook page & was in his own words.

 

I aint gonna rely on hear say & y'all shouldn't either, go to Facebook search both Steve Parks & Rage Tail, read for yourself.

[Gundog]

It takes brass youknowwhats to take ripoff tackle to ICAST, as if no one would notice they were exact copies. Not to mention actually labeling the packages with the names of the products you are ripping off. What did they think was gonna happen? sheez.....

[Chance_Taker4]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 4:14 PM, Bunnielab said:

 

That is odd, did he not try, or was it rejected?  

I pour my own worms and when I was looking for a senko mold the companies I contacted explained it to me like this. Senkos themselves are not patented. The amount of "rings" around the worm, the size of the smooth area in the middle of the bait, the name senko, and the recipe have patent protections. Everything else is free to duplicate.   

[Cgolf]

13 hours ago, Catt said:

What I read was either on Steve Park's or Rage Tail's Facebook page & was in his own words.

 

I aint gonna rely on hear say & y'all shouldn't either, go to Facebook search both Steve Parks & Rage Tail, read for yourself.

 

I had, and the rage FB page links the tackle retailer story where at the very bottom of it Steve mentions that he tried to communicate with them last year and never heard back after he had talks with them, I assume at Icast.