Effects of electronics?

[A-Jay]

I usually run the console, bow and now the 360 imaging units from the moment I launch.

Every once in a while - if I'm sitting in a place long enough - I may turn one or all of them off. 

And here's a little nugget for you, I'm starting to believe that the 360 - attracts bass - so there's that.

And then we have the "Hydrowave" - isn't that a deliberately transmitted "electronic sound" ?

Who Knows. . . . . .

A-Jay

[Bucky205]

I don't have a clue as to whether sonar or trolling motors spook fish.  I try to run my trolling motor at a constant speed without a lot of on and off's.  If I know the area my sounders are off.  I try to drift in on the wind if possible.  I've seen power boats sound a school of bait fish, and a sailboat go right through them. Tarpon in the marinas in Key West will stand at your feet if your throwing food in the water, and haul ass if they see you standing on a sandbar.  I've seen catfish, and coy ponds where they would come up as soon as they saw you hoping to be fed. Most of us have seen the guy catching the huge bass with his hans out of his pond on the internet.  I think maybe it is an associated behavior.  Usually when fish are released they get the hell away from me.  I don't see a lot of bass that have been hit by boats, or sucked through the turbines at the dam, so maybe their is some degree of danger awareness.  Lol. and I've seen pond bass get caught over, and over out of the same john boat banging around.  So I haven't a clue.

[Team9nine]

41 minutes ago, scaleface said:

The question is not " does sonar spook fish" its " can sonar spook fish " . Theres a huge difference between the two ..

 

 

  I never turn mine off , its to big a fishing tool to turn off . 

 

This is the more debatable topic of the two. Theoretically, it shouldn't happen because sonar frequencies (200khZ, 455 khZ, 800 khZ) are well above the hearing range of bass. However, Doug Hannon believed that fish can hear the harmonics of sonar waves (not the "sound"). "Plausible" - yes; "Can" - maybe 

 

EDIT: Tracked down this opinion on the subject from Ralph Manns, whom I have great respect for:

 

Although the fish can't sense/hear the very high frequency sounds of the pulses themselves, they can sense the low frequency pulses (the clicks, if you will). Even if the unit doesn't make an audible click, it vibrates and sends out a signal detectable by a fish's lateral line at between 50 and 150 (or so) pulses a second (depending upon the scroll speed.)

 

Every fish these guys/gals haul to the boat is given a chance to learn and associate the sound with danger. The sound may be meaningless as it goes over an inexperience fish. But, during the trauma of being hauled to boatside and netted or lipped the noise and the unpleasant experience are easily associated. Bass are programmed by instinct and habit to avoid such unpleasantness. The use of a radically different scroll speed may make the sound/pulses different enough so that even experienced bass don't know they are a threat. If you must keep a sonar on, I do so when fishing waters/shorelines I haven't previously learned with a sonar, try running the unit either at max or minimum scroll speed rather than the manufacturers automatic settings.

 

 

1 hour ago, scaleface said:

Heres another debatable question  . Can trolling motor noise spook pressured  bass? 

 

 

This one is actually less debatable, as there is some pretty decent evidence via diving and tagging studies that it occurs.

[NHBull]

Thanks for all the replies.....

 

My take away is that if I am trying for a big and going to be in a place for a while, I rest my batteries..........if I am going for numbers with the hopes of a bug one, leave it on.....at least for now,

 

Thanks Gents

[OCdockskipper]

18 hours ago, A-Jay said:

...And here's a little nugget for you, I'm starting to believe that the 360 - attracts bass - so there's that...

A-Jay

 

During the dog days of summer over the past few years, I have had the following happen on more than one occasion.  While out fishing, I will sometimes cut across the lake at a medium speed to get back to my dock, whether it be to hit the restroom or grab something from inside the house.  The lake is an electric only lake, so there is no outboard involved.  I'll do a quick tie up, jump onto the dock and out of habit, look into the water around the boat.  Often I'll see 3 or 4 medium sized bass cruising towards the boat, from deeper water.  The depthfinder is on, it is typically a clear day, so I don't know if they are attracted to sounds the depthfinder or trolling motor have created or to the moving shadow & shade from the boat that may have passed over them.  Usually the fish will cruise up until they notice me standing there, at which time they will just change direction & leave.

 

The first time or two, I thought it was just a chance occurrence, that I happened to dock when those fish were headed that way.  After the 4th or 5th time, I became paranoid that they were stalking me... 

[Bucky205]

On 7/16/2017 at 7:38 PM, Team9nine said:

 

This is the more debatable topic of the two. Theoretically, it shouldn't happen because sonar frequencies (200khZ, 455 khZ, 800 khZ) are well above the hearing range of bass. However, Doug Hannon believed that fish can hear the harmonics of sonar waves (not the "sound"). "Plausible" - yes; "Can" - maybe 

 

EDIT: Tracked down this opinion on the subject from Ralph Manns, whom I have great respect for:

 

Although the fish can't sense/hear the very high frequency sounds of the pulses themselves, they can sense the low frequency pulses (the clicks, if you will). Even if the unit doesn't make an audible click, it vibrates and sends out a signal detectable by a fish's lateral line at between 50 and 150 (or so) pulses a second (depending upon the scroll speed.)

 

Every fish these guys/gals haul to the boat is given a chance to learn and associate the sound with danger. The sound may be meaningless as it goes over an inexperience fish. But, during the trauma of being hauled to boatside and netted or lipped the noise and the unpleasant experience are easily associated. Bass are programmed by instinct and habit to avoid such unpleasantness. The use of a radically different scroll speed may make the sound/pulses different enough so that even experienced bass don't know they are a threat. If you must keep a sonar on, I do so when fishing waters/shorelines I haven't previously learned with a sonar, try running the unit either at max or minimum scroll speed rather than the manufacturers automatic settings.

 

 

 

 

This one is actually less debatable, as there is some pretty decent evidence via diving and tagging studies that it occurs.

Just curious where you read that the scroll speed effected the pulses?

[Team9nine]

12 hours ago, Bucky205 said:

Just curious where you read that the scroll speed effected the pulses?

 

This was an older post from another forum that used to have some pretty heavy hitters on board. I believe by "pulses" that might be referencing ping speed, as you can go to Lowrance's website and read articles that state ping speed and scroll rate are tied together, at least on many older models. At one point it had been stated that Lowrance used the two terms interchangeably. I think anything higher than an HDS model now allows for separately controlling these two parameters though.

[WRB]

Very early Lawrence paper graphs the ping rate was coupled to scroll speed. The past 15 years most sonar units can be set for ping and scroll speed. Ping rate is how many pulses are sent per second the frequency doesn't change, i.e.; 83Hz is fixed. The power or gain has always been adjustable since the original flashers.

In terms of what affect the bass would be the force of the pulse or gain setting.

Most recreational bass anglers use the factory default settings or automatic adjustments depending on depth of water the boat is in.

Tom

[Bucky205]

4 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

This was an older post from another forum that used to have some pretty heavy hitters on board. I believe by "pulses" that might be referencing ping speed, as you can go to Lowrance's website and read articles that state ping speed and scroll rate are tied together, at least on many older models. At one point it had been stated that Lowrance used the two terms interchangeably. I think anything higher than an HDS model now allows for separately controlling these two parameters though.

Thanks,  I sold them for a lot of years and ad never heard that so was curious.  

[J Francho]

I've caught so many fish vertically, where I could see both my bait, the fish, and the fish after getting hooked that I feel like it doesn't matter all that much.

[WRB]

Getting back on topic what this thread should focus on is how external noise or sound affects bass behavior.

Would you fish from aluminum boat without any carpet or rubber pads on the inside bottom to dampen sound?

If you believe noises made by anglers dropping tackle boxes or banging around inside the metal boat  then you should believe bass are affected by sonar pulses. Bass hear/feel sound through there lateral line nerves.

Tom

[frogflogger]

Bill Murphy said it bothered the giants and I know some of the old boys on the big O turn theirs off when around the big ones - lots of difference between big old bass and the rest of them.

[WRB]

1 hour ago, frogflogger said:

Bill Murphy said it bothered the giants and I know some of the old boys on the big O turn theirs off when around the big ones - lots of difference between big old bass and the rest of them.

Big bass don't become giant bass by making mistakes.

Tom

[Catt]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Would you fish from aluminum boat without any carpet or rubber pads on the inside bottom to dampen sound?

17 minutes ago, WRB said:

Big bass don't become giant bass by making mistakes.

Tom

 

My Alweld does not have carpet & we caught close to 30 bass today. The guy in the back seat kept swiveling the seat making a loud noise even that didn't effect the catch rate.

 

Unless you count Chicken McNuggets

[scaleface]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

My Alweld does not have carpet & we caught close to 30 bass today. The guy in the back seat kept swiveling the seat making a loud noise even that didn't effect the catch rate.

 

Unless you count Chicken McNuggets

 

But , how do you know it didnt effect the catch rate ? 

[NHBull]

Most of all this is anecdotal, and while there is some science, who really know.

 

Frankly, I have a tough time keeping quiet on the boat, so it might be a mute point, and got to admit, sometimes I like a little background music.

 

Today I witnessed LM in shallow clear water and NO amount of noise concerned these fish.

I think it is because of the environment.  I also believe that there are other areas of the lake that fish would scatter when hearing my motor...

 

Thanks for all the discussion, it's quite an education for a life long trout fly fisherman

[Catt]

2 hours ago, scaleface said:

 

But , how do you know it didnt effect the catch rate ? 

 

How ya know it did! 

[scaleface]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

How ya know it did! 

 

I dont . 

[Catt]

@scaleface nobody knows

 

Anecdotal: not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal (observation) accounts rather than facts or research.

 

Empirical evidence: indicates information gained by means of observation, experience, or experiments. A central theme of science and scientific method is that all evidence must be empirical, or at least empirically based, that is, it should depend on evidence or results that can be observed by our senses.

[slonezp]

While bass can get spooked, they are not spooky. Many I would even consider curious by nature. It goes hand in hand with being a predator. I believe mother nature is a bass fisherman's biggest foe and noise created by a graph is....meh

[WRB]

9 hours ago, Catt said:

 

My Alweld does not have carpet & we caught close to 30 bass today. The guy in the back seat kept swiveling the seat making a loud noise even that didn't effect the catch rate.

 

Unless you count Chicken McNuggets

You should patent the sqweeky rear seat as a fish attractor and chicken nuggets as a new scent.

Tom