Size Jig head for Ned Rig?

[Cgolf]

8 hours ago, Bunnielab said:

cgolf, that is an interesting collection of colors, I never hear much about guys using the white plastics with the Ned.  I have a pack of pearl Hula Sticks I was going to try and use for schoolie striped bass and pickerel but I haven't gotten to it yet.  

 

I have done really well with it fishing on my local river system, visibility is pretty poor. Probably my number one color for smallies and big Brown Trout (when they move shallow in the fall and share the water with the smallies). 

[gardnerjigman]

On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, WRB said:

I am not knocking the Ned rig, what I am saying catching 10 keeper bass a day at Casitas or Castiac on any lure is an good day. Aaron Martens can't do that consistantly and is one of the best finesse bass anglers on the planet. Ned rig isn't a panacea, it's another good finesse presentation.

we fish over 20' deep during the summer, try that in 15 mph wind with a 1/16 oz Ned jig.

Tom

 

 

I watched @Bluebasser86 do it last Friday in 30-40' of water in 20-25 mph winds with a 1/16th oz head and TRD. Kansas has taught us that what most people call a stiff wind, is a slight breeze to us.

 

I'm not saying this to mock you, I'm just saying it can be and is done. You didn't need to validate your point anymore after you said you fish for big fish 90% of the time and finesse fish the other 10%. No need to invest in other techniques/products at that rate at all.

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 9:14 AM, WRB said:

1/5 oz (.200) is slightly lighter than 1/4 oz (.250) or slightly heavier than 3/16 oz (.187).

I consider all the above weight as normal, not light weight until you get less than 1/8 oz (.125). I use a 3/16 oz weight as my go to worm weights with bait casting tackle.

I recall an event a few years ago where at 3 of the anglers during a very tough bite dock fishing in a marina using the Ned rig, the event was won by a angler fishing those same docks using big flutter spoon!

Tom

 

The general was putting in work!

[WRB]

20-25 mph sustained wind equals about 2'-3' white caps in the land OZ or anywhere that has large one water areas. I fish 30'-40' deep a lot but not with a 1/16 oz jig even on 4# FC you can't feel it in a breeze. Glad you and Bluebasser can that, beyond my skills.

Tom

[MickD]

On 7/20/2017 at 9:35 AM, everythingthatswims said:

I catch wayyy more fish per bait with the TRDs, the zinkerz cut in half seem to come off the jighead very easily. TRDs will float right out of the package but with a zinker it takes time.

 

Which indicates that the zinkerz's are not really elaztech?, most likely not as buoyant?  Or are they some other grub/stick cut in half?  These things are really not that expensive, last for many fish, the original jigs are made the way they are to take advantage of the buoyancy of the grub.  I doubt if anyone is saving a significant amount of money or catching any more fish than if they just fished the original system.

 

When they scrunch up, just pull them straight.  If they get really old and gap at the jighead, just a drop of superglue will fix it.

[IndianaFinesse]

2 hours ago, MickD said:

 

Which indicates that the zinkerz's are not really elaztech?, most likely not as buoyant?  Or are they some other grub/stick cut in half?  These things are really not that expensive, last for many fish, the original jigs are made the way they are to take advantage of the buoyancy of the grub.  I doubt if anyone is saving a significant amount of money or catching any more fish than if they just fished the original system.

 

When they scrunch up, just pull them straight.  If they get really old and gap at the jighead, just a drop of superglue will fix it.

Zinkerzs are still made out of elaztech, but have a much higher salt content than the TRD.  Which means that once the salt has soaked out of the zinkerz, it is full of tiny holes that make it softer and more boyant than the TRD.  I always glue my zinkerzs and zeroes onto the jighead, and they last almost forever.  I've only had one half of a zinkerz get to torn up to use, and that was after it had caught over 100 bass.  I always break them off first.

[Cgolf]

1 hour ago, IndianaFinesse said:

Zinkerzs are still made out of elaztech, but have a much higher salt content than the TRD.  Which means that once the salt has soaked out of the zinkerz, it is full of tiny holes that make it softer and more boyant than the TRD.  I always glue my zinkerzs and zeroes onto the jighead, and they last almost forever.  I've only had one half of a zinkerz get to torn up to use, and that was after it had caught over 100 bass.  I always break them off first.

 

Do you have durability issues with the TRD? The Orange one on the previous page only has 6 non toothy fish on it and it is starting to tear. I have noticed this with the other TRDs I have used, along with them having less wiggle. A Zinkerz on the other hand has been indestructible for me and has twice the action. I do sometimes soak and stretch the Zinkerz before fishing them to get the salt out, but not all the time. 

[IndianaFinesse]

1 hour ago, cgolf said:

 

Do you have durability issues with the TRD? The Orange one on the previous page only has 6 non toothy fish on it and it is starting to tear. I have noticed this with the other TRDs I have used, along with them having less wiggle. A Zinkerz on the other hand has been indestructible for me and has twice the action. I do sometimes soak and stretch the Zinkerz before fishing them to get the salt out, but not all the time. 

No, I haven't had any durability issues with the TRD, but I don't use them anymore either.  But back when I did use the TRD, I never had a bait get to torn up to use.  I would simply rotate the hook around in an entire circle on one end, then once the one side got to torn up to use I flip the bait around and do the same thing to the other end.

[Cgolf]

@IndianaFinesse @Bluebasser86 I just stumbled on this now that Instagram is working again. You guys wonder why everyone is so confused what is a Ned Rig, like a Ned rig, not a Ned, etc. Zman posted this which is just going to confuse more people lol. 

 

 

[IndianaFinesse]

17 hours ago, cgolf said:

@IndianaFinesse @Bluebasser86 I just stumbled on this now that Instagram is working again. You guys wonder why everyone is so confused what is a Ned Rig, like a Ned rig, not a Ned, etc. Zman posted this which is just going to confuse more people lol. 

 

 

I would still consider a 4" finesse wormz a Ned rig, unless he used a big 1/8 ounce jig on it or something.

[Cgolf]

4 minutes ago, IndianaFinesse said:

I would still consider a 4" finesse wormz a Ned rig, unless he used a big 1/8 ounce jig on it or something.

 

Ok now I am confused too lol. I had thought that was too big. Somewhere on here Team9nine had posted some jig weight/hook size rules along with the plastic size and I thought 4" was too big. I know that list was handy when I bought my jigs, wish he would repost it. 

[IndianaFinesse]

10 minutes ago, cgolf said:

 

Ok now I am confused too lol. I had thought that was too big. Somewhere on here Team9nine had posted some jig weight/hook size rules along with the plastic size and I thought 4" was too big. I know that list was handy when I bought my jigs, wish he would repost it. 

Sorry about the confusion, it isn't meant to be.  Here it is, in essence.  

Soft plastics 4" and under, on a mushroom jighead weighing no more than 3/32 (usually 1/16 is the most used, followed by 1/32 and 3/32) ounce with either a #6, #4, or #2 hook. Some would add a #1 hook, but I don't like them that big.  The most versatile and popular with the mwf crowd is the 1/16 ounce head with a #4 or #2 hook, with half of a zinkerz or a TRD.

 

i happen too know team9nine spends a lot of time (especially in the summer) throwing a zoom finesse trick worm on a little mushroom head.

 

[Bluebasser86]

7 hours ago, WRB said:

20-25 mph sustained wind equals about 2'-3' white caps in the land OZ or anywhere that has large one water areas. I fish 30'-40' deep a lot but not with a 1/16 oz jig even on 4# FC you can't feel it in a breeze. Glad you and Bluebasser can that, beyond my skills.

Tom

That's the part that a lot of guys get hung up on, feeling the bait. It's a no feel presentation, so heavy winds aren't an issue because I rarely feel my bait anyways. It takes time and concentration to detect a bite in those conditions, especially when the trolling motor is popping out of the water and the boat is bucking like it was. The fish I was catching, I was fishing the standard 10lb braid (bright pink KastKing for visibility), to an 8lb Seaguar leader. The deep water bites were all detected when my line stopped sinking well before it should have. Shallow bites I often detect when the bow in the line begins to tighten.

 

It's a regional skill set, not really a matter of being better than another angler. I'm terrible at drop-shotting, and deep cranking, because I don't do it often enough to polish those skills. I have no doubt that if someone went with me enough times, they'd soon be able to detect those no feel bites with a tiny bait in heavy winds.  

[Subaqua Adinterim]

13 hours ago, MickD said:

When they scrunch up, just pull them straight.

Easier said than done if the bait keeper wire piece on the hook shank is in place and sticking up.  The elaztech plastic wraps around this and is very hard to undo.  I just squeezed the bait keeper wire down flat with my needle nose pliers so it's just a small bump on the hook shaft.  I did this yesterday and it worked beautifully; keeps the plastic in place really well and easier to straighten out after catching a fish. 

 

11 hours ago, IndianaFinesse said:

 I always glue my zinkerzs and zeroes onto the jighead, and they last almost forever.

I am learning here, so please help me out with more information.  The zinkers and zeros come in 5" size.  If you cut them in half that's 2.5" vs. 2.75" for the TRD - does it make a difference?  Also, what other plastic options,  if any, would you suggest?

 

6 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

That's the part that a lot of guys get hung up on, feeling the bait. It's a no feel presentation, so heavy winds aren't an issue because I rarely feel my bait anyways.

Yes, this is something I'm learning.  Yesterday, I fished in over 20' of water, casting out and drifting because it was windy; didn't feel any of the fish hit, felt the resistance and pull when I started reeling in the slack or just reeling up.  When in deep water, there is no doubt that resistance you feel is a fish, since at that depth there is nothing to get hung up on with this set up.  Had a great day yesterday using this technique, caught 10 LMB and one huge small mouth.  The fish are suspended in deeper water here in upstate NY now, so this technique helps me catch more fish out of my kayak without electronics.

 

Thanks so much for all the information, it has really helped me become more successful and enjoy fishing more. 

[Cgolf]

50 minutes ago, RichPenNY said:

I am learning here, so please help me out with more information.  The zinkers and zeros come in 5" size.  If you cut them in half that's 2.5" vs. 2.75" for the TRD - does it make a difference?  Also, what other plastic options,  if any, would you suggest?

 

 

I personally will also use a Anglers Choice 5" Wart Hawg cut in half like a Zinkerz. It is a skinnier and heavily salted stick bait, pretty durable for non elaztech bait. It gives a different profile when I retrieve it, and not being buoyant it also will give off a different look than the Zinkerz. I seem to do better on the river with the Zinkerz and the Wart Hawg on lakes. Could be that the Zinkerz replicates a craw better, dominate river food, with the tail high presentation and the Wart Hawg represents a baitfish, dominate lake food, better.

[Team9nine]

9 hours ago, cgolf said:

 

Ok now I am confused too lol. I had thought that was too big. Somewhere on here Team9nine had posted some jig weight/hook size rules along with the plastic size and I thought 4" was too big. I know that list was handy when I bought my jigs, wish he would repost it. 

 

9 hours ago, IndianaFinesse said:

Sorry about the confusion, it isn't meant to be.  Here it is, in essence.  

Soft plastics 4" and under, on a mushroom jighead weighing no more than 3/32 (usually 1/16 is the most used, followed by 1/32 and 3/32) ounce with either a #6, #4, or #2 hook. Some would add a #1 hook, but I don't like them that big.  The most versatile and popular with the mwf crowd is the 1/16 ounce head with a #4 or #2 hook, with half of a zinkerz or a TRD.

 

i happen too know team9nine spends a lot of time (especially in the summer) throwing a zoom finesse trick worm on a little mushroom head.

 

 

@IndianaFinesse summed it up. Ned likes to bite off a short piece of many of his plastics, but 4" is usually considered the limit. The more unfortunate part that started all the confusion was the coining of the term "Ned rig," which Ned was opposed to, at least initially. The actual term first defined by Ned was "Midwest Finesse," which was a more generalized system of fishing involving a lightweight mushroom head jig, and a variety of small soft plastics, all designed to be fished shallow, and largely away from heavy cover, in our flatland reservoirs. It is an offshoot of jig-worming adapted to the waters of the Midwest and Heartland. 

 

49 minutes ago, RichPenNY said:

Easier said than done if the bait keeper wire piece on the hook shank is in place and sticking up.  The elaztech plastic wraps around this and is very hard to undo.  I just squeezed the bait keeper wire down flat with my needle nose pliers so it's just a small bump on the hook shaft.  I did this yesterday and it worked beautifully; keeps the plastic in place really well and easier to straighten out after catching a fish. 

 

I am learning here, so please help me out with more information.  The zinkers and zeros come in 5" size.  If you cut them in half that's 2.5" vs. 2.75" for the TRD - does it make a difference?  Also, what other plastic options,  if any, would you suggest?

 

Yes, this is something I'm learning.  Yesterday, I fished in over 20' of water, casting out and drifting because it was windy; didn't feel any of the fish hit, felt the resistance and pull when I started reeling in the slack or just reeling up.  When in deep water, there is no doubt that resistance you feel is a fish, since at that depth there is nothing to get hung up on with this set up.  Had a great day yesterday using this technique, caught 10 LMB and one huge small mouth.  The fish are suspended in deeper water here in upstate NY now, so this technique helps me catch more fish out of my kayak without electronics.

 

Thanks so much for all the information, it has really helped me become more successful and enjoy fishing more. 

 

Intetestingly, this bunching is much worse with a TRD than most any other plastic...another reason to use half a ZinkerZ instead -lol.

 

On the TRD bunching, if you simply pinch the head above the keeper tight and then pull the tail section of the bait good, it will snap back into place easier than trying to unbunch the extra snagged material.

 

Other plastics - whatever you want to try. A small finesse worm is a must in my book. Beyond that, the ShadZ is a big favorite in some areas. In the spring or in murkier water, a Zoom 4" lizard or a tiny brush hog are little used killers. Don't limit yourself too much - remember, it's a style of fishing more than a specific bait.

[IndianaFinesse]

3 hours ago, RichPenNY said:

 

I am learning here, so please help me out with more information.  The zinkers and zeros come in 5" size.  If you cut them in half that's 2.5" vs. 2.75" for the TRD - does it make a difference?  Also, what other plastic options,  if any, would you suggest?

Nope, the fish could care less about the 1/4 inch difference between the TRD and a 2.5" section ofna zinkerz.  I also like the 4" finesse wormz and a finesse trick worm, but other popular options are the hula stickz, finesse shadz, trd tubez or modified tubez, and leachz.  I pretty much exclusively fish the zinkerzs and finesse worms, i haven't personally found the other baits to work much better (aside from short seasonal windows), but many other people have.  

[fishwizzard]

I used hula stickz a lot and had good luck with them but have moved back to the half zinker for open hook use and the trds for weedless use.  The zlinkers need the surface area of the mushroom head to get a good glue bond and are too soft to stay rigged weedless for long.  Honestly the zman plastics are not great for weedless rigging so when I need to go that route I am more likely to use the plastics and jigheads I posted earlier.  

[WRB]

Fishing for suspended bass with a 1/16 mushroom head with a 3" TRD vs using a 1/16 dart with a hand poured 3" sluggo or 4" finesse worm using light tackle seems to me the same presentation until the jig is resting on the bottom. Just because the bottom depth is 25-30 feet the suspended bass could be much shallower. 

Castiac is a windy lake and over 300' deep, bass often suspend at 30' over very deep water and using finesse darts on light tackle is a common presentation and I am sure anglers today are using the Ned rig because it's popular. I have no problem using 3/32 oz darts but don't have the patients to weight over a minute to let a 1/16 oz jig sink 30' in the wind and tend to target deep suspended bass using a 3/4 oz structure spoon.

Dick Trask was the western bass pioneer fishing deep finesse presentations over 40 ago, Ned is the mid west pioneer doing his thing.

Peace.

Tom

 

[Subaqua Adinterim]

41 minutes ago, WRB said:

but don't have the patients to weight over a minute to let a 1/16 oz jig sink 30' in the wind and tend to target deep suspended bass using a 3/4 oz structure spoon

Tom you are correct in that fishing a small jig in deeper water does take patience.  I sometimes use two rods when fishing the ned rig.  I cast out the ned rig with one and while it is sinking down I cast out a crank bait and reel that in.  So far I haven't had any luck on the crank bait; so no doubles.  Maybe I will try a spoon or blade bait instead of a crank bait.  Thanks for the suggestion.  

[IndianaFinesse]

Speaking of using finesse worms on a "Ned rig", I crushed the bass today on a 4" robo worm on a 1/16 ounce mushroom head.  Also caught six or eight on a shaky head, but the little shroom head with the robo worm was the deal.  Caught 32 bass in just under four hours, and just had a blast.  Lately I've been trying to stay away from fishing the Ned rig, so I can learn other techniques (and the grass has been really bad), but it was such a slow day (at first) that I broke out the Ned rig and treated myself to some fast action.  Now I'm gonna have to force myself to put it back down lol.

[fishwizzard]

15 hours ago, IndianaFinesse said:

Speaking of using finesse worms on a "Ned rig", I crushed the bass today on a 4" robo worm on a 1/16 ounce mushroom head.  Also caught six or eight on a shaky head, but the little shroom head with the robo worm was the deal.  Caught 32 bass in just under four hours, and just had a blast.  Lately I've been trying to stay away from fishing the Ned rig, so I can learn other techniques (and the grass has been really bad), but it was such a slow day (at first) that I broke out the Ned rig and treated myself to some fast action.  Now I'm gonna have to force myself to put it back down lol.

 

Try the Robos on the smallest Owner Ultra heads.  They are so soft and thin that you give up little in the way of hooksets but gain weedless-ness and imho a better gliding swim due to the angle of the line tie.  

 

[Bluebasser86]

18 hours ago, Bunnielab said:

 

Try the Robos on the smallest Owner Ultra heads.  They are so soft and thin that you give up little in the way of hooksets but gain weedless-ness and imho a better gliding swim due to the angle of the line tie.  

 

The Pro Spider Slider head would probably give you even more glide. I like to use them with small, thin worms and craws to get a good gliding action, and you can get them in very small sizes. 

[fishwizzard]

2 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

The Pro Spider Slider head would probably give you even more glide. I like to use them with small, thin worms and craws to get a good gliding action, and you can get them in very small sizes. 

Yea, I just started using them this spring and have really gotten into them so far, they are really versatile and the Pro ones have a great hook, even with two small pliers it takes a bit to get them to bend.  I think for elaztech plastics I prefer to have the hook lying parallel to the worm as the are so stretchy that I feel like it's hard to get the hook to consistently punch through with light rod and line.   As I move away from elaztech worms I think I am going to shift to jigheads with a more perpendicular hook angle. 

[BrackishBassin]

On 7/27/2017 at 10:30 PM, IndianaFinesse said:

Speaking of using finesse worms on a "Ned rig", I crushed the bass today on a 4" robo worm on a 1/16 ounce mushroom head.  Also caught six or eight on a shaky head, but the little shroom head with the robo worm was the deal.  Caught 32 bass in just under four hours, and just had a blast.  Lately I've been trying to stay away from fishing the Ned rig, so I can learn other techniques (and the grass has been really bad), but it was such a slow day (at first) that I broke out the Ned rig and treated myself to some fast action.  Now I'm gonna have to force myself to put it back down lol.

 

Reading through these posts, I was all excited to try out a Ned Rig and then I read the words "grass has been really bad". Everywhere I fish is nothing but grass. Should I take back the shroom heads I bought and save myself some frustration?

[IndianaFinesse]

1 hour ago, BrackishBassin said:

 

Reading through these posts, I was all excited to try out a Ned Rig and then I read the words "grass has been really bad". Everywhere I fish is nothing but grass. Should I take back the shroom heads I bought and save myself some frustration?

I would still try them, but you won't be able to throw them into thick grass.  Fish them on the edge of the grass, and in more open areas.  They can be fished over some sparse grass, especially if you swim them the way I do.  That's where the light heads come in. It's also good in the winter/late fall when the grass dies back if you have to wait.