Size Jig head for Ned Rig?

[OCdockskipper]

A quick side note, at the Elite tournament on the St. Lawrence river today, Luke Clausen had what looks to be the big bag for the 3rd day.  From stage, he said he caught the 23-12 bag of smallmouth on a TRD.  Too bad it is a numbers only bait...  

[Smokinal]

Just now, OCdockskipper said:

A quick side note, at the Elite tournament on the St. Lawrence river today, Luke Clausen had what looks to be the big bag for the 3rd day.  From stage, he said he caught the 23-12 bag of smallmouth on a TRD.  Too bad it is a numbers only bait...  

I have been absolutely mythed that I haven't seen it in MLF. There is no better platform for the Ned than that. I've seen guys go 8 hours, literally, without a single bite and will not put down the shakey head.

[WRB]

48 minutes ago, Smokinal said:

I have been absolutely mythed that I haven't seen it in MLF. There is no better platform for the Ned than that. I've seen guys go 8 hours, literally, without a single bite and will not put down the shakey head.

Maybe you watch more closely, the Ned rig has been tried and a few bass caught using it. MLF is all about catching 12"+ bass quickly and if the Ned rig worked under the conditions the pros are fishing they would use it. When conditions are tough the pros tend to go with a drop shot rig to be competitive.

Tom

[OCdockskipper]

19 hours ago, WRB said:

...MLF is all about catching 12"+ bass quickly and if the Ned rig worked under the conditions the pros are fishing they would use it...

 

When I was in Houston for the Classic earlier this year, the staff at the Z-Man booth had a different take on this.

 

The main reason for lack of exposure or use of ZMan's TRD's & other Ned products is that Zman is not a MLF sponsor nor do any of their pro's fish in MLF.  A Strike King pro could use half a Zero on a mushroom head, but the announcers would (accurately) describe it as a small jig with a Strike King plastic on it.  There is no reason for any of the pro's or MLF to report on the use of ZMan's products unless they absolutely had to.  However, that scenario occurred earlier this year.

 

Kevin Short won a MLF select event and true to his nature of independence & integrity, told (& showed) the audience over & over that he was using a TRD.  Mark Rose, who finished in 2nd, was using a similiar product/technique but described it as a small jig.

 

I was a marketing major in college and one of the things we studied was product life cycles.  Any product that has huge sales initially but then quickly declines is an example of great marketing of a bad product.  People buy it off of the initial information, but are quickly dissatisfied with it and don't repeat the purchase.  Zman is experiencing the exact opposite with the TRD in my opinion, slow or steady initial sales that continue to climb over time.  That is representative of poor or little marketing of a good product.  Sales tend to grow through word of mouth as people are pleased with the performance of a product.

 

Tom, I know your legendary history of catching incredible numbers of huge largemouths here in California.  I also understand your hesitancy to think of the Ned rig as anything more than just a small jig, that it is really nothing new.  My question is, with all due respect, have you ever fished a true Ned rig in the manner Ned Kehde and other Midwest afficianado's have taught, for a whole day?

[WRB]

No, I haven't had to fish a Ned rig to catch bass where I fish. My stock of finesse soft plastics needs to get reduced and they always work very well for me using dart head, small round jigs, drop shot or slip shot rigged with a wide variety of worms, grubs or reapers.

If I was not successful or in need of something to catch bass I give the TRD a try.

You may want to try a 3" reaper on your Ned jig, different falling action.

Tom

[d-camarena]

Great product thay catches tons of bass, but not the size bass to satisfy my needs. I still keep em around but rarely throw them. 

[OCdockskipper]

Brock Moseley just announced from stage that he caught most of his smallmouth this week at the Elite event on a Ned rig, until the wind created a problem fishing the light weight.  He caught over 20lbs of smallmouth each day, total of 82-3.  

 

If KVD's parent's had never met, Brock Moseley and the Ned Rig would have have posted their first Elite wins.

[OCdockskipper]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

No, I haven't had to fish a Ned rig to catch bass where I fish. My stock of finesse soft plastics needs to get reduced and they always work very well for me using dart head, small round jigs, drop shot or slip shot rigged with a wide variety of worms, grubs or reapers.

If I was not successful or in need of something to catch bass I give the TRD a try.

You may want to try a 3" reaper on your Ned jig, different falling action.

Tom

 

Tom, let me preface this post by stating in the words of Bobby Knight, I believe you have forgotten more about bass fishing than I am ever going to know.  I hope this post doesn't come across as harsh, that is not the way it is intended, but there are some flaws in the logic of what you wrote above.

 

It would be easy to imagine a successful fisherman back in the 1970's saying he has enough diving plugs so he had no need to fish a Big O to catch bass.  I wouldn't blame Homer Circle if back in the early 2000's if he had said he had no use for a Senko, he had enough other plastic worms.  Experience & success often blinds us to subtle differences that are summarily dismissed.

 

To say that you "haven't had to fish a Ned Rig" or if you were "not successful", you would give it a try is a bit condescending, as if this method (Midwest Finesse) is just something one uses to help beginners or lousy fishermen.  Like Don Iovino's doodling or Dee Thomas Flippin', the truth is Midwest Finesse is an effective way to catch many & large bass that won't fall to other methods.  One doesn't have to be desperate to use it.

 

On B.A.S.S.'s website review of Icast recently, a reporter who had never caught a 10lb bass wrote an article listing the 5 new baits he felt were most likely to catch a 10 lb bass in 2018.  Say What??  As a commenter wrote, that is like taking dietary advice from a fat person.  I bring this up based on your suggestion of using a reaper on a mushroom head for a different falling action.  If ones experience with Midwest Finesse is only theoretical and their view of it is that it is really nothing new or different, than giving advice on it doesn't make sense.  That's why you see me shying away on commenting on how to catch 30 lb stringers, how to win tournaments, best trailers on a chatterbait or a host of other subjects in which I have zero experience ever actually accomplishing or having any success with.

 

Again, please know that I am no way impugning your knowledge or accomplishments of bass fishing.  In fact, I will make the following standing offer.  If you are ever down in Orange County and want a few hours fishing on a non-public lake, you are welcome to join me on my little boat.  I'll give you the front seat, be happy to stay in the back observing and learning as you break down my 85 acre lake.  If it makes sense to do so, I'll throw a Ned rig most of the day, that could be a fun experiment.  

 

Thanks for listening Tom & do feel free to take me up on my offer if you want to. 

[WRB]

I spend bout 90% of my time on the water catching big bass and 10% finesse bass fishing. The 10%  is when I have someone with me that wants to catch a few bass and doesn't care what size it is. I just meter some catchable bass and use a finesse rig, usually a slip shot or drop shot and catch those bass. Why would buying more stuff at this point in my life help? I have a few hundred worms that always work and catch 5 to 10 bass in a few hours. Iovino is on the water every week and always finesse fishes, next lunch we have I will ask Don how the Ned rig is doing for him, if it's working he is using it!

Peace,

Tom

[IndianaFinesse]

5-10 bass an hour is on the slow side of average for most Midwest finesse anglers...

[Scott F]

I have introduced the Ned rig to several other good fishermen who all dismissed it as just a jig and plastic. After they watched the success I had with it, they see it differently. 

[IndianaFinesse]

6 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

Brock Moseley just announced from stage that he caught most of his smallmouth this week at the Elite event on a Ned rig, until the wind created a problem fishing the light weight.  He caught over 20lbs of smallmouth each day, total of 82-3.  

 

If KVD's parent's had never met, Brock Moseley and the Ned Rig would have have posted their first Elite wins.

What he called a "Ned rig" was in fact a 1/5 ounce jig head with a senko, what makes that different from a shaky head/jig worm?  Not really asking you ocdockskiper, it just really bugs me.

[WRB]

I am not knocking the Ned rig, what I am saying catching 10 keeper bass a day at Casitas or Castiac on any lure is an good day. Aaron Martens can't do that consistantly and is one of the best finesse bass anglers on the planet. Ned rig isn't a panacea, it's another good finesse presentation.

we fish over 20' deep during the summer, try that in 15 mph wind with a 1/16 oz Ned jig.

Tom

 

[jtharris3]

On 7/22/2017 at 4:16 PM, OCdockskipper said:

A quick side note, at the Elite tournament on the St. Lawrence river today, Luke Clausen had what looks to be the big bag for the 3rd day.  From stage, he said he caught the 23-12 bag of smallmouth on a TRD.  Too bad it is a numbers only bait...  

 

That caught my attention as well!

[OCdockskipper]

3 hours ago, IndianaFinesse said:

What he called a "Ned rig" was in fact a 1/5 ounce jig head with a senko, what makes that different from a shaky head/jig worm?  Not really asking you ocdockskiper, it just really bugs me.

 

I didn't hear any other specifics, I just heard what he said from stage.  Knowing what Luke Clausen said the day before, I assumed Moseley meant a TRD or other Elaztech product on a very light head.  Looks like I was wrong.

 

I am curious what he will show when Bassmaster shows the baits used by the top 12 finishers.

[WRB]

1/5 oz (.200) is slightly lighter than 1/4 oz (.250) or slightly heavier than 3/16 oz (.187).

I consider all the above weight as normal, not light weight until you get less than 1/8 oz (.125). I use a 3/16 oz weight as my go to worm weights with bait casting tackle.

I recall an event a few years ago where at 3 of the anglers during a very tough bite dock fishing in a marina using the Ned rig, the event was won by a angler fishing those same docks using big flutter spoon! 

Tom

[Cgolf]

Here is my 2 cents, I no longer fish a Ned rig, I fish a short plastic, maybe Zman, on whatever jighead weight the bass and conditions dictate. Sometimes that is a 1/16 or lighter head, or a 1/4 to 1/2 ounce head. If the fish want a bait that gets down quick and stays down I am not going to try and force feed them a lightweight head. 

 

22 hours ago, IndianaFinesse said:

5-10 bass an hour is on the slow side of average for most Midwest finesse anglers...

 

This really rubs me the wrong way. The Ned Mafia;) would make you think that there really is only one bait to fish with to catch them. A lot of us don't fish lakes where the density of Bass is high enough to catch numbers like that. You might, Ned and Bluebasser might, but a lot of us don't. I have fished the bait quite a bit, but on the lakes I fish it has never been the best option, a good one sure, but the best no. 

[OCdockskipper]

So let me get this straight.  

 

You use a heavier than recommended jighead & plastics other than Elaztech and then say that the Ned Rig won't catch the numbers of fish that some users claim it will?

 

Hmmmmmm....

[Cgolf]

7 minutes ago, OCdockskipper said:

So let me get this straight.  

 

You use a heavier than recommended jighead & plastics other than Elaztech and then say that the Ned Rig won't catch the numbers of fish that some users claim it will?

 

Hmmmmmm....

 

That's not what I said, I said I vary the weight depending on the fishes mood. 75% of the time the fish I chase bottom feed and don't chase baits, so in those cases yes I use a heavier head to catch fish. 

 

Also elaztech baits are not needed to be a Ned rig, I use both elaztech and salted baits for a different swimming action. All I am saying is there are lakes out there that 5-6 fish an hour is a good catch rate Ned rig or no Ned rig. I never said it won't catch numbers, it can and will, but it is not a magic bait. 

 

Please reread my post, that is my findings on the lakes I fish, I never said the bait was bad either, my PB Smallie came on a true Ned Rig. 

[IndianaFinesse]

1 hour ago, cgolf said:

Here is my 2 cents, I no longer fish a Ned rig, I fish a short plastic, maybe Zman, on whatever jighead weight the bass and conditions dictate. Sometimes that is a 1/16 or lighter head, or a 1/4 to 1/2 ounce head. If the fish want a bait that gets down quick and stays down I am not going to try and force feed them a lightweight head. 

 

 

This really rubs me the wrong way. The Ned Mafia;) would make you think that there really is only one bait to fish with to catch them. A lot of us don't fish lakes where the density of Bass is high enough to catch numbers like that. You might, Ned and Bluebasser might, but a lot of us don't. I have fished the bait quite a bit, but on the lakes I fish it has never been the best option, a good one sure, but the best no. 

I did not intend to offend you by stating the catch rates of some mwf anglers(?) but there is absolutely zero truth in the statement that we say there is only one bait that can be considered a "Ned rig".  We fish with many different baits, finesse shadzs, leachzs, hula stickzs, etc.  I personally prefer elaztech baits because they are softer and more durable, it get pretty expensive fishing cut down senkos, but I do sometimes throw a slightly cut down finesse trick worm on it sometimes.  No where have I said that you have to fish elaztech baits, they are just my recommendation.

 

 The only thing that bugs me is that the definition of the word " Ned rig" is being lost and confused. While it used to have a generally accepted meaning, it no longer does.  When words lose their definition, we lose our ability to communicate affectively.  Now days, when someone mentions that they were slaying them on the "Ned rig", I have to ask whether it was actually just a shaky head (according to your definitions, what's the difference between a shaky head and a Ned rig anyways?) or if it was actually a small plastic under four inches on a small jig head, that isn't so heavy that it mist be fished on a tight line.  I could not care less if you do fish an entire senko on a 1/5 ounce jig head, but don't call it something that it isn't.

 

The other thing is that many new comers don't realize that when they buy a pack of 1/4 ounce power shroomzs and put a trd on it, they aren't really using a ned rig and are actually fishing an entirely different bait.  Then they dismiss the rig, or come back here and ask why they aren't seeing the catch rates expected.

 

BTW, I don't know where you live, but I can garruntee that the fishing isn't any worse than it is in Indiana or Kansas.  Just ask @Bluebasser86and I don't always catch 5-10 bass an hour on it either, but if I'm not getting those catch rates or better, I am usually not fishing it.

 

[Cgolf]

9 minutes ago, IndianaFinesse said:

I did not intend to offend you by stating the catch rates of some mwf anglers(?) but there is absolutely zero truth in the statement that we say there is only one bait that can be considered a "Ned rig".  We fish with many different baits, finesse shadzs, leachzs, hula stickzs, etc.  I personally prefer elaztech baits because they are softer and more durable, it get pretty expensive fishing cut down senkos, but I do sometimes throw a slightly cut down finesse trick worm on it sometimes.  No where have I said that you have to fish elaztech baits, they are just my recommendation.

 

 The only thing that bugs me is that the definition of the word " Ned rig" is being lost and confused. While it used to have a generally accepted meaning, it no longer does.  When words lose their definition, we lose our ability to communicate affectively.  Now days, when someone mentions that they were slaying them on the "Ned rig", I have to ask whether it was actually just a shaky head (according to your definitions, what's the difference between a shaky head and a Ned rig anyways?) or if it was actually a small plastic under four inches on a small jig head, that isn't so heavy that it mist be fished on a tight line.  I could not care less if you do fish an entire senko on a 1/5 ounce jig head, but don't call it something that it isn't.

 

The other thing is that many new comers don't realize that when they buy a pack of 1/4 ounce power shroomzs and put a trd on it, they aren't really using a ned rig and are actually fishing an entirely different bait.  Then they dismiss the rig, or come back here and ask why they aren't seeing the catch rates expected.

 

BTW, I don't know where you live, but I can garruntee that the fishing isn't any worse than it is in Indiana or Kansas.  Just ask @Bluebasser86and I don't always catch 5-10 bass an hour on it either, but if I'm not getting those catch rates or better, I am usually not fishing it.

 

 

The non elaztech was based on OCDocks comment. 

 

I switch between 1/2 Zinkerz, TRDs (Have a sweet light orange one that used to be bubblegum that before the flooding fish were jumping on), and 1/2 Anglers Choice Wart Hawgs that is a heavily salted skinny stick bait. No Senkos for me too expensive. 

 

The difference for me on lakes is I fish a lot of vertical cover vs open water which is why I need the heavier weight a lot of the time. 

 

I know a lot of guys are bothered by how the NED is morphing into a small bait on any size jighead which is why I don't want to call what I fish that even if it is one, it is easier that way. I know that the heavier jig with a bigger hook isn't a Ned rig, it is something else, jig worm shakey head? When I fish it on on a 1/16 fireball head it is a Ned. Total aside, really bummed that gopher tackle appears to be no more, my supply is dwindling. 

[fishwizzard]

55 minutes ago, IndianaFinesse said:

 When words lose their definition, we lose our ability to communicate effectively.

 

This is why I can't blind order a club sandwich without asking questions, people got some weird ideas about what one is these days.  

 

I am am bit Ned Rig/MWF believer.  But I think it is more the retrieved then the exact lure.  So long as the lure is more or less the same (very light jighead, small, buoyant plastic).  I think if you are going with an open hook jighead the smaller the better, but I fish this little kit of tackle;

Using the MWF retrieves and do pretty well when the fish want a slightly larger lure or I want to fish faster current.

[OCdockskipper]

3 hours ago, cgolf said:

...Please reread my post...

 

I know tongue in cheek humor doesn't come across well when written, so please know my post to you was done with a smirk on my face.  

 

Like IndianaFinesse, I see too often people doing their version of something and then claiming to have followed directions.  There is an old story about two strangers who end up playing 18 holes of golf together.  The first guy takes a few mulligans, moves his ball a little on the fairway if needed and calls any putt under 2 feet a gimme.  Nothing major, just a couple of ways to improve his enjoyment for a day out on the links.  At the end of the day, the first guy looks at his score and comments "Heck, that was my best round of golf ever".  The second guy thinks it over for a moment and then responds "I am not sure what game you were playing out there, but it definitely wasn't golf".

 

One of the few smart things I ever have done in my years of fishing came a few years back when I heard about this Ned rig thing from a friend.  As I read about it, I initially dismissed it (sometimes confusing it with the Neko rig) until I remembered the Charlie Brewer & his Slider system.  Sometimes something simple & subtle has some merit.  So in a fit of common sense, I followed the directions being given by Ned Kehde as well as comments by TeamNine9 & Bluebasser.  I'll be the first to admit it is not a magic lure or technique, but once learned, it is lethal.  It has been the best producer on my small California home lake, on a couple of farm ponds in Georgia, on the Guadalupe river outside of Austin and in the clear, deep waters of Lake Powell, not only for numbers but largest fish.  

 

But in the words of Bluebasser from a few years back "Nothing to see here folks, just move along..."  

[Cgolf]

That Orange TRD should have a legit NED head on it. That color started out as bubblegum, but turned orange after sitting in a box with green pump Orange Zinker. It worked so well I may never try the bubblegum color lol. And as you can see I have a mix  of true Ned heads, a heavier jig and what I call a sled rig, slider plus small plastic. 

[fishwizzard]

cgolf, that is an interesting collection of colors, I never hear much about guys using the white plastics with the Ned.  I have a pack of pearl Hula Sticks I was going to try and use for schoolie striped bass and pickerel but I haven't gotten to it yet.