Topwater leader material+brand

[HeavyTwenty]

I've run into issues with fluorocarbon sinking whenever I let a spook pause too long, so I want to find a floating leader. Out of Trilene XT, XL, Big Game, I'm leaning towards Trilene XT, since it has the highest abrasion resistance and its memory shouldn't be an issue as a leader. But I was wondering if there was a copolymer line that works better? 

[Mike L]

I don't use leaders, but when I did it was never for anything on top..

That said, why do you want to use a leader for topwater?

 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[NHBull]

Most top waters are straight braid.

 

If I have a lure that might tangle, a 2 foot leader isn't long enough to change its action 

[WRB]

Do you use mono for anyother presentations? How do you define a copolymer line; XT and Big Game are copolymer lines. Abrasion resistance should't be an issue with top water lures, however both XT and Big Gsme have excellent abrasion resistance and knot strength, take your pick both will work good.

Tom

[jr231]

X2 on the straight braid. All my reels are spooled with braid. I will use a leader for certain presentations but topwater isn't one of them. 

[Outdoor Zack]

I do not like trilene xt very much except when I using it straight on a spinning rig (finesse type setups). I had a spool of 14 lb trilene xt on my spinnerbait rod and cut it up very easily.  It may be good for a leader on top water rod, but I wouldn't recommend it for other hardbaits.

 

I suggest bi game or suffix siege for your leader, but honestly I'd go to a straight mono for the long haul.  

 

[MickD]

I think that co-poly is somewhere between FC and mono for specific gravity, so it too will sink, although slower than FC.  Mono = about neutral buoyancy, FC = about 1.5 times the specific gravity of mono.

 

Better to go no leader or just about any mono.  Not rocket science.  Leader grade monos are harder, more resistant to abrasion/rocks/etc, have the advantage of reducing tangles on some lures like blade baits.

[WRB]

4 minutes ago, MickD said:

I think that co-poly is somewhere between FC and mono for specific gravity, so it too will sink, although slower than FC.  Mono = about neutral buoyancy, FC = about 1.5 times the specific gravity of mono.

 

Better to go no leader or just about any mono.  Not rocket science.  Leader grade monos are harder, more resistant to abrasion/rocks/etc, have the advantage of reducing tangles on some lures like blade baits.

Copolymer line is a blend of 2 monomers of the same or very similar weight like P-Line CXX or Berkley Big Game for examples. What anglers get confused with is hybrid like Yo-Zuri Hybrid, not a blend but 2 very different polymers coextruded FC over a polymer core.

Tom

[MickD]

 If either of the monomers is FC the specific gravity will be proportionally increased according to the percentage of the FC used in the co-polymer line, right?  If true, then co-polymer lines (with FC in them, which is really, I think, most all lines described as co-polymer lines) will sink faster than mono, which means their suitability for surface lures is not ideal.  Mono is the answer.  Or no leader (braid's specific gravity, except for those with the Gore fiber or other weighting scheme, is about the same as mono and water).

[HeavyTwenty]

Seems like "mono" is the way to go. Big Game is only sold in 650yard spool locally (kind of awkward to stick that in my kayak bag)... so I'll probably try Trilene XT.

4 hours ago, Mike L said:

I don't use leaders, but when I did it was never for anything on top..

That said, why do you want to use a leader for topwater?

 

I use leaders for most treblehook lures just for a bit of extra stretch. I don't have many rod/reel combos because I fish off a kayak, so spooling all braid is just simple and easy. Adding a long leader seems to add a little more flexibility to my setups.

 

I use leaders specifically for spooks and jerkbaits because those two lures often get their hooks wrapped around my 15-20lb braid. I sometimes use straight braid to lipless or lipped crankbaits.

 

3 hours ago, WRB said:

Do you use mono for anyother presentations? How do you define a copolymer line; XT and Big Game are copolymer lines. Abrasion resistance should't be an issue with top water lures, however both XT and Big Gsme have excellent abrasion resistance and knot strength, take your pick both will work good.

Tom

I'm not really aware of the chemistry behind XT/Big Game... I call them mono because they're sold under the mono section at most stores. I did find it strange that I couldn't find the words mono written anywhere on the packaging. Anyways, I mentioned abrasion resistance because I'll probably be picking up some 20 lb mono for inshore leader as well. 

[CroakHunter]

I use p-line cxx as leader material for every application that I feel like I need a leader. I use 10lb with my poppers and if I threw a spook or other type walking bait I would use 15lb. If it does sink it's very very slowly and doesn't hurt the action of the bait in my experiences. I also have 2 spare reels spooled with straight cxx because it is a suitable line for all applications imo.

[DubyaDee]

I like izorline xxx 15 pound for a topwater leader. It absolutely helps with making sure the front treble doesn't snag on the braid. If I had to use fluoro I don't think it would be an issue. Fluoro may sink, but 2 feet on a walking bait won't make a difference at all. It could make a difference with a small pop r but not a walking bait.

[Doelman]

I've never noticed a bit of FC leader causing any of my topwaters to sink.  My hooks are always get snagged on treble hooks without it when I use braid.

[MickD]

Every time I forget that I have FC leader on an outfit and use a pop-R or Chug Bug, and fish it fairly slowly, the leader sinks and screws up the presentation.  If a fast retrieve, or walking the dog, I agree no problem.  With mono, no problem with any retrieve.  On my usual surface outfit, I simply use pure mono all the way.  It serves also to slow me down on the hook set.  Doesn't really slow my reaction,  but the stretch helps slow the reaction at the lure. 

[WRB]

14 hours ago, MickD said:

 If either of the monomers is FC the specific gravity will be proportionally increased according to the percentage of the FC used in the co-polymer line, right?  If true, then co-polymer lines (with FC in them, which is really, I think, most all lines described as co-polymer lines) will sink faster than mono, which means their suitability for surface lures is not ideal.  Mono is the answer.  Or no leader (braid's specific gravity, except for those with the Gore fiber or other weighting scheme, is about the same as mono and water).

I don't know of any fishing line using a monomer, polyimde  (Nylon*) is the primary polymer used to make what is referred to as monofilament line. Copolymers Use 2 grades of Nylons blends to improve abrasion resistance and UV inhibitors to improve sunlight protection. More recently copolymer lines with Nylon blended with polyuerathene. I don't believe, could be wrong, that blends with FC are still on the market, it's 100% FC today. Reason is FC doesn't wet during the blending extruding process resulting in a poor performing line. Coextrusion Solves that problem but ends up with a larger diameter line per pound test, the FC jacket is thin but does add to the weight.

You can put some fly line dressing on the FC leader to make it have more buoyancy, mono leader is easiest way to go.

Peace,

Tom

* Nylon comes from a joint venture between DuPont engineers in New York (Ny) and English engineers in Lodon (lon);  Nylon. 

 

[Team9nine]

55 minutes ago, WRB said:

 

* Nylon comes from a joint venture between DuPont engineers in New York (Ny) and English engineers in London (lon);  Nylon. 

 

 

While a long standing belief, it is largely considered just an attractive myth these days, as there is very little support for the story. The generally held concensus is that of some 400 suggestions from a DuPont committee, "No-Run" was actually the leading candidate name, but after some consideration, nylon won out. The more generally accepted explanation is that "nyl" was unique but arbitrary, while "on" kept the format of other popular materials of the time (cotton, rayon, etc.).

[MickD]

I only used the word "monomer" because it was used in a previous post.  

 

Monomer:  "a molecule that can be bonded to other identical molecules to form a polymer."   I agree.  There is most likely no single molecule line.

 

I think this one of the strings that is getting way more complex than necessary.  If you want your leader to not sink, use no leader or monofilament.  If you don't care about buoyancy, use monofilament or florocarbon.  Materials sold as "leader material" are generally harder and stiffer than materials sold as "line."  

[WRB]

41 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

While a long standing belief, it is largely considered just an attractive myth these days, as there is very little support for the story. The generally held concensus is that of some 400 suggestions from a DuPont committee, "No-Run" was actually the leading candidate name, but after some consideration, nylon won out. The more generally accepted explanation is that "nyl" was unique but arbitrary, while "on" kept the format of other popular materials of the time (cotton, rayon, etc.).

My source of this myth was a Dupont executive.

Tom

[HeavyTwenty]

4 hours ago, MickD said:

Every time I forget that I have FC leader on an outfit and use a pop-R or Chug Bug, and fish it fairly slowly, the leader sinks and screws up the presentation.  If a fast retrieve, or walking the dog, I agree no problem.  With mono, no problem with any retrieve.  On my usual surface outfit, I simply use pure mono all the way.  It serves also to slow me down on the hook set.  Doesn't really slow my reaction,  but the stretch helps slow the reaction at the lure. 

 

That's what I encountered as well. For over a year I just used fluoro leader fine (I use about 10-15 ft leader to add a little bit of stretch) because I rarely let the spook pause longer than 2 seconds. But a few days ago the fish would only hit my spook when I let it pause for about 5-10 seconds. When I resumed walking it, the spook would dive under the water.