Balance vs. Overall Weight

[fissure_man]

In a casting setup, how important is balance to you?  Is there a point where decreasing overall weight becomes a negative, because it throws off balance?  Is adding weight ever justifiable?

 

Seems like virtually all rods are "tip heavy" off the shelf, with the balance point ahead of the reel seat.  I palm a casting reel, so using a heavier reel (as is often recommended) doesn’t actually do much to affect the balance, and just makes the whole deal heavier.  The best solution would be to reduce weight ahead of the reel seat with lighter guides, better blank ($$$).  Next best would be stick with a light reel and add weight where it’s most effective – the butt end.

 

I have a couple older BPS rods with threaded-in butt caps that can be removed to add washers and balance the rod.  I thought this was a pretty cool option but it never became very popular I guess.  You can add a sleeve to the butt of any rod but it won't necessarily fit well on the smaller split grips, and it looks dumb

 

Is rod balance something that people even care about anymore?  If it is, where/when/why/how do you achieve it?

[Yudo1]

I used to care more about balance when I first got my nrx's. I used rubber chair bumpers and quarters on the butt.  I took them off to u40 the cork and never bothered to put them back on. Personally, it doesn't bother me anymore because the rods are so light to begin. If I was using heavier rods, it might be more of an issue especially with tip up techniques.

[bigturtle]

I havnt used a rod that was unbalanced enough for me to care about in a looooong time.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

Get a rod weight around 3.5oz or lower and balance isn't much of an issue. Just not going to be enough tip weight in front once a 6-7 ounce reel is put on to be a bother.

[bigfruits]

its very important to me. a heavier balanced rod is less fatiguing after 8 hrs than a considerably lighter unbalanced one in my experience.

 

I traded an NRX 873 for a MB FMJ for this reason (and because i dislike the grip) and I am glad I did! My NRX 842c is well balanced and my 843c is a little unbalanced but not too bad.

[Jeff H]

I do not care for the feel of neutral or tip light balance in my rods. Prefer slight tip heavy. Also, adding ballast to rear to balance is an extreme no-go for me! That just feels horrible. Have not bought a rod in a long time that the balance was so bad on it required attention 

[Team9nine]

Balance is nice, and almost all my favorite rods have it, and it's not anything price/quality/weight dependent. I've got $40 rods that are a joy to fish with, along with $240 rods that are, too. The best way to achieve it is to buy it that way in the first place  Everything else I either live with it "as is", or sell it. I won't add weight, but also believe there can be such a thing as "too light."

[CroakHunter]

My lightest and cheapest combo are the same combo. I guess I got lucky lol

[Jon G]

I don't care about balance and weight mainly because I never notice it and if I do it really doesn't bother me.

[rippin-lips]

Balance is important to me. I guess now it's more of a was. I've bought so many rods and sold them because of crappy balance. Luckily I found a company who has a rod series that fits everything I look for in a rod. So now balance isn't important because I got what I want. 

[Deleted account]

Balance over weight. I picked up a first generation Mojo Bass once, and threw up a little in my mouth.

[Columbia Craw]

Balance is very important to me, especially for tip up presentations. 

[HookRz]

Depends. Like many mentioned for tip up presentations it's essential. Finesse worm, hair jigs, tubes. Yeah, even the "Ned" I know the latter is supposed to be a "no-feel" rig but with a light, sensitive and properly balanced rod I can feel the fish suck it in unless its really windy. 

I find myself enjoying finesse, and catching more fish these days, but the tackle has to be just right. I mean just right. 

[cottny27]

6 hours ago, reason said:

Balance over weight. I picked up a first generation Mojo Bass once, and threw up a little in my mouth.

Agree!!

[EvanT123]

Weight is the enemy of sensativity. I try and build rods and put together combos that are well rounded. A solid proven reel and a rod that serves the purpose I intend it for. When I build rods I try and keep the top half as light as possible by using the lightest possible guide train that will work within the function of the rod. 

[fissure_man]

So clearly the best way to get a balanced rod is to just buy a balanced rod and not bother with any tweaking… duh .  Seems like balance is important to many, but few will go to the length of counterweighting an unbalanced rod to improve it.

 

I wonder if any of the mainstream (not custom) rod makers use butt weights in their off the shelf rods to adjust balance.

 

For certain specs I imagine it’s going to be pretty tough to achieve near-neutral balance at the reel seat (if desired) only by using light guides and blank, at any price point.  Can such a beast be created without counterweighting or using abnormally heavy butt components in say a 7’6” or 8’0” XHeavy flipping rod?

 

You can always put a sleeve on with some quarters but people don’t want to do that on a higher end rod.  To me it would be a cool option to see customizable butt weighting systems as described in the original post, especially on long flipping rods which are notoriously unbalanced.  I think it would sell; the people who are buying mid-to-high-end fishing rods love to overanalyze and tweak their gear.  Include some fancy colored tungsten washers at varying weights and get pro endorsement… Thoughts?  The rod could be designed to minimize weight everywhere (not caring about balance), then the angler could add a minimal amount of weight, concentrated where it's most effective to achieve the balance they want.  Would this just be a gimmick that nobody would value?

[Team9nine]

57 minutes ago, fissure_man said:

So clearly the best way to get a balanced rod is to just buy a balanced rod and not bother with any tweaking… duh .  Seems like balance is important to many, but few will go to the length of counterweighting an unbalanced rod to improve it.

 

You can always put a sleeve on with some quarters but people don’t want to do that on a higher end rod.  To me it would be a cool option to see customizable butt weighting systems as described in the original post, especially on long flipping rods which are notoriously unbalanced.  I think it would sell; the people who are buying mid-to-high-end fishing rods love to overanalyze and tweak their gear.  Include some fancy colored tungsten washers at varying weights and get pro endorsement… Thoughts?  The rod could be designed to minimize weight everywhere (not caring about balance), then the angler could add a minimal amount of weight, concentrated where it's most effective to achieve the balance they want.  Would this just be a gimmick that nobody would value?

 

First highlight - depends upon your definition of "improve." Many would argue adding weight isn't an "improvement," even though you'll get better balance. There's more to it than just achieving balance (IMHO).

 

Second highlight - been systems along that line over the years; short answer to question: "yes"

[WRB]

Dobyns adds weight to balance his rods, it's important to Gary.

A well balanced rod reel combo will always be tip heavy with a lure tied on.

Tom

[fissure_man]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

 

First highlight - depends upon your definition of "improve." Many would argue adding weight isn't an "improvement," even though you'll get better balance. There's more to it than just achieving balance (IMHO).

 

Second highlight - been systems along that line over the years; short answer to question: "yes"

 

Fair enough.  I guess that’s the original question – “Balance vs. Overall Weight” – is it ever better to add weight?

 

My line of reasoning is like this – seems that many people place some value in a balanced rod, even avoiding or selling certain rods if the balance doesn’t suit them.  When those folks find a stock rod that is balanced to their liking, I would ask what’s different about that rod (say for the same length/power/handle length)? 

 

A rod maker can adjust the balance by removing weight up front, but only to a point, especially on a long rod.  So differences in balance between rods also have to do with how much weight is behind the reel seat, right?  That’s what I was getting at in asking if any mainstream rod makers add weights (which @WRB gave an example of).  Some of the folks who like balanced rods, but would never add weight to a rood - I wonder how they'd like the feel of a Dobyns rod before telling them it was counter-weighted?

 

Does it matter if balance is achieved with the use of actual ‘weights’ or just different component weights?  To me, using counterweights would allow the design to focus on minimizing weight everywhere first, then using a minimal amount of weight in the most effective location to achieve the desired balance.  Like an F1 car, designed to be light, then strategically ballasted as needed to a minimum weight regulation.  This approach would result in the lightest overall weight for a balanced rod, and if one preferred the rod to be simply as light as possible, it could be run it without weights (or anywhere in between).

 

Sounds like Dobyns uses a similar approach, but they decide how their rods will balance.  Having a slick system to do this kind of customizing yourself would be cool IMO, even if only on some long/powerful rods which tend to be the furthest out of balance. 

 

1 hour ago, WRB said:

 

A well balanced rod reel combo will always be tip heavy with a lure tied on.

 

 

True, but often the lure is in the water, sitting on bottom or falling on a semi-slack line and you're not really feeling its weight. 

 

 

[WRB]

I hold my casting rods foreward of the reel seat, the reason my custom rods have 2" foregrip. Moving the balance point by 1 finger width changes it to optimize the balance, plus this allows me to feel my line with index finger and thumb tips regardless of the reel size or rod length.

If anglers insist on palming their bait casting reels they will be stuck with factory balance or  have your rods custom made to adjust the balance point to your specification. Spinning rods are easier to move your hand foreword by 1 or more fingers to optimize balance.

Tom

[NHBull]

Overall weight doesn't concern me as I change rigs a couple times a day, so I never really notice the weight.

That said, I prefer "comfort", sometimes it is a bit out of balance  but not enough to get me to sell.

 

I find that shamano on loomis tends to really work for me.......even changing different size reels

[MickD]

On 7/6/2017 at 0:31 PM, Team9nine said:

Balance is nice, and almost all my favorite rods have it, and it's not anything price/quality/weight dependent. I've got $40 rods that are a joy to fish with, along with $240 rods that are, too. The best way to achieve it is to buy it that way in the first place  Everything else I either live with it "as is", or sell it. I won't add weight, but also believe there can be such a thing as "too light."

Based on your many astute posts, I'm sure you realize but did not mention that a rod does not have "balance" on its own.  The reel is part of the balance equation.  And the current trend to longer rods makes achieving balance harder.

[Steveo-1969]

Balance is important to me when fishing "tip up" presentations and I prefer my rod to be tip "light". I have two NRX casting rods and found both to be tip heavy so I balanced them with rubber chair leg bumpers and quarters (or maybe it was nickels?).

 

I don't care if my expensive high-end rods don't look pretty.  In my hands they feel and fish beautifully.

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

Based on your many astute posts, I'm sure you realize but did not mention that a rod does not have "balance" on its own.  The reel is part of the balance equation.  And the current trend to longer rods makes achieving balance harder.

 

I guess I would push back and say that it depends how you define 'balance.' Every rod has a balancing point somewhere along the blank, reel or no reel, long or short. As you mentioned, adding a reel shifts that balancing point, but doesn't necessarily make a rod "balanced." For example, where you hold the rod (and many of us hold them differently) will affect whether a rod feels balanced to you. Which reel you add will also affect this. My point was that the rods that feel and fish best to me (are "balanced") require no modification on my part given the reels I use and how I hold my rods. They are great right off the shelf. Many are not, and they get less use, or are tolerated or sold.

[Team9nine]

3 hours ago, fissure_man said:

 

Fair enough.  I guess that’s the original question – “Balance vs. Overall Weight” – is it ever better to add weight?

 

My line of reasoning is like this – seems that many people place some value in a balanced rod, even avoiding or selling certain rods if the balance doesn’t suit them.  When those folks find a stock rod that is balanced to their liking, I would ask what’s different about that rod (say for the same length/power/handle length)? 

 

A rod maker can adjust the balance by removing weight up front, but only to a point, especially on a long rod.  So differences in balance between rods also have to do with how much weight is behind the reel seat, right?  That’s what I was getting at in asking if any mainstream rod makers add weights (which @WRB gave an example of).  Some of the folks who like balanced rods, but would never add weight to a rood - I wonder how they'd like the feel of a Dobyns rod before telling them it was counter-weighted?

 

Does it matter if balance is achieved with the use of actual ‘weights’ or just different component weights?  To me, using counterweights would allow the design to focus on minimizing weight everywhere first, then using a minimal amount of weight in the most effective location to achieve the desired balance.  Like an F1 car, designed to be light, then strategically ballasted as needed to a minimum weight regulation.  This approach would result in the lightest overall weight for a balanced rod, and if one preferred the rod to be simply as light as possible, it could be run it without weights (or anywhere in between).

 

Sounds like Dobyns uses a similar approach, but they decide how their rods will balance.  Having a slick system to do this kind of customizing yourself would be cool IMO, even if only on some long/powerful rods which tend to be the furthest out of balance.

 

 

 

You can like the feel of a rod without fretting over the counterbalance method. However, if you don't like the feel, I wouldn't add extra mass after the fact to try and get better balance. A builder has options from the beginning, the purchaser is usually pretty restricted. Adding mass hurts sensitivity, regardless of where you add it. Adding it to the butt of the rod compounds the problem because of excess at the farthest end, creating additional issues with inertia and momentum that could potentially be avoided with better build quality.