Bass Location

[Ghostshad]

Following bass , as the bass move from the winter locations , we go from winter to prespawn to spawn . After the spawn is over,  G do the bass turn around & follow the same path back to deep water into their summer location.  GodBless & Thanks for all your help

[RoLo]

"After the spawn, do bass turn around & follow the same path back

to their deep water summer location?"         

 

No they don't.

During the spawning cycle, bass are shallower than at any other time of year.

Fall patterns, on the other end of summer, are very similar to many springtime patterns.

Nevertheless, the summer season that separates spring and fall is a long, stable season

when bass tend to be deeper than spring or fall, but NOT deeper than winter.

Bass in summer relate to lush vegetation found on weedy flats and slow tapering slopes.

In winter though, bass are typically deeper than any other time of year.

The deciduous foliage has died back to the ground, and bass are gravitating to the steepest gradients

with the most rapid depth change.

 

Roger

[Catt]

"After the spawn, do bass turn around & follow the same path back to their deep water summer location?"

 

Yes they do!

 

Bass must have a visible path of breaks and break lines on a structure from deep water all the way to the shallows; which is where the bulk of food is available to bass.

 

Not all structure meets the needs of bass, this is why it is said that 10% of the water holds 90% of the fish.  

 

Oh! They follow the same structure during fall back to feeding areas!

[Ghostshad]

Thanks for all the help.

[RoLo]

On 5/30/2017 at 6:35 AM, Catt said:

"After the spawn, do bass turn around & follow the same path back to their deep water summer location?"

Yes they do!

Bass must have a visible path of breaks and break lines on a structure from deep water all the way to the shallows; which is where the bulk of food is available to bass.

Not all structure meets the needs of bass, this is why it is said that 10% of the water holds 90% of the fish.  

Oh! They follow the same structure during fall back to feeding areas!

 

 

Buck Perry advanced many theories that still hold water today, but that was not one of them

In the first place, Perry's hypotheses applied chiefly and almost exclusively to man-made lakes,

theories that have limited application in natural lakes.

 

Moreover, bottom objects and bottom cover are in constant transition.

Old laydowns are rotting away, while new blowdowns are added every year,

To believe that fish rely on visible paths, in my opinion, dishonors their innate capabilities.

In freshwater, the DNR routinely installs new man-made reefs without adding a visible path.

In saltwater, old shipwrecks are silted over, while new shipwrecks are added every year,

and each one is found and occupied by fish without the aid of visible path-markers.

 

Further, there are many perennially muddy waters where visibility is measured in inches

rather than feet. Following any semblance of a trail in chocolate milk at night would be

arduous and time-consuming to say the least. Furthermore, there are thousands upon thousands

of flat, shallow, saucer lakes that have no ridges, no ditches, no islands and no holes anywhere,

they're just an eclectic mix of aquatic vegetation, but bass require nothing more.

 

Given a visible path, of course any fish would gleefully follow along. Among the most followed

visible paths are shallow inside weedlines, and deep outside weedlines. However, these paths

are also under constant transition, and every winter the deciduous weeds die down to the ground.

In an underwater world typified by perpetual transition, bass don't have the luxury to rely

solely on visible paths. It has furthermore been shown that fish of most species (probably all species)

require no visible path to return to their birthplace, which is imprinted in their brain at birth.

 

Roger

[scaleface]

I fish a lake that does not have much water fluctuation . The bass will find deep cover and occupy it  even if its on a barren bottom . Another lake I fish  the water fluctuates greatly and frequently .  There are some nice humps out in the middle of  no-where with no path to the shallows  and there are zero largemouth  bass that occupy them . On that lake the bass will go deep on points , tree-lines , fence-rows , road beds... but there has to be that follow-able path . 

[Catt]

@RoLo so you believe bass move across the lake bottom without following any structure, breaks, or breaklines?

 

Yes cover changes but structure remains the same unless the body of water has enough water flow to wash it out or silt it over.

 

Why would bass follow structure & beaks/breaklines to spawn areas & then totally change its path back out?

 

Bass are creatures of habit & will not change its travel path without a catastrophic event taking place.

[RoLo]

20 hours ago, Catt said:

@RoLo so you believe bass move across the lake bottom without following any structure, breaks, or breaklines?

 

I've never viewed bass as mobile creatures, but regard them as residential homebodies. 

Without a doubt, bass undergo regular seasonal shifts, which are gradual, short range movements.

This applies of course to natural lakes, but in man-made reservoirs their movements may be greater.

In any case, radio-tracking has not been able to verify any daily migrations by bass. On the other hand,

telemetry studies seem to agree on one thing, that largemouth bass have a very small home range.

In one study conducted in a natural lake, 83% of largemouth bass occupied a home range

in a 200-ft radius. In that same study, no bass moved farther than 2,000-ft (4/10 mile).

Those results would not necessarily apply to bass in reservoirs, but if nothing else,

they corroborate the point that bass live in the smallest feasible home range.

 

Radio-tracking has also shown that when bass do move (immature bass move more than adults),

they move laterally to maintain the same distance from the surface. It’s believed that bass

resist depth change because swim bladder readjustments are not instantaneous.

Regardless of the reason, when bass move laterally at the same distance from the surface,

they eventually become "suspended bass". Depending on the water depth, suspended bass

may or may not be able to see or follow the bottom cleavage, even if they wanted to.

 

Roger

 

 

 

[Catt]

The first consideration given to radio telemetry research is what is the sample size.

 

I read studies with similar numbers for home range & movement but I've also read larger numbers. 

 

Depending on the size of the body there is a resident population that lives their entire life within a certain distance from the shoreline. Within that same body of water there is a resident population the lives their entire life offshore never contacting a shoreline.

 

The offshore population generally travels farther than the shoreline population.

 

Back to the main question "After the spawn is over, do the bass turn around & follow the same path back to deep water into their summer location." From everything I've read from radio telemetry research & everything I've experienced the answer is yes they in fact do.

[RoLo]

22 minutes ago, Catt said:

The first consideration given to radio telemetry research is what is the sample size.

I read studies with similar numbers for home range & movement but I've also read larger numbers. 

Depending on the size of the body there is a resident population that lives their entire life within a certain distance from the shoreline. Within that same body of water there is a resident population the lives their entire life offshore never contacting a shoreline.

The offshore population generally travels farther than the shoreline population.

Back to the main question "After the spawn is over, do the bass turn around & follow the same path back to deep water into their summer location." From everything I've read from radio telemetry research & everything I've experienced the answer is yes they in fact do.

 

 

Remember...if you believe it, then it's true.

 

 

 

 

[Catt]

10 hours ago, RoLo said:

 

 

Remember...if you believe it, then it's true.

 

 

 

 

Remember... If you don't believe it doesn't make it false!

[RoLo]

9 minutes ago, Catt said:

Remember... If you don't believe it doesn't make it false!

 

 

I'll drink to that  

[Catt]

13 minutes ago, RoLo said:

 

 

I'll drink to that  

 

JD & 7

[WRB]

So many assumptions being made. Winter or the coldest water period varies greatly depending on the lake, pond or river location where largemouth, Smallmouth or spotted bass live. Bass are bass or are they? Actually bass are sunfish family not a true bass like striped bass. Being of the warm water sunfish family largemouth bass prefer warmer water than the other 2 species and most "bass" are largemouth to bass anglers. During the cold water period bass try to find the warmest water possible and in man made reserviors that is usually deeper water. If could also be water warmed by power generators or spring water . Let's just say cold water or winter period bass are in deeper water then move into shallower water to stage before spawning. The female bass then move back to the same staging areas after spawning. The males don't move back and forth, they stay near the spawning site before, during and after the spawn. During the warm water summer period the bass locate wherever thier food source is concentrated and stay near their food source until the colder water period when food is less important with slow metabolism.

I watched bass swim across open deep water to get from a shore area out to an island or the opposite side of a lake several times and don't believe they need any sign post to navigate. Do bass use breaks, ledges, channel to swim along and hunt, sure they do they are predators. Do they go back to the deepest winter water areas? Not where I bass because the thermocline reduces DO levels to low.

Summer bass are near the abundant food source.

Tom

 

[Catt]

A bass's metabolism is finely tuned to its circulatory system temperature which is the same as the surrounding water temperature. 

 

In warmer water the bass's metabolism is higher meaning they digest their food faster requiring them to eat more often.

 

They are not uncomfortable in cold water or warmer water & they don't swim around the lake seeking the coldest or warmest water.

[Troy85]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

They are not uncomfortable in cold water or warmer water & they don't swim around the lake seeking the coldest or warmest water.

 

If they are not seeking colder or warmer water, then what is the reason for them moving back to deep water during summer and moving to even deeper water in the winter? (I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really curious to hear your thoughts)

[magnumflag]

I don't think that water temperature and visual cues are at the utmost importance when locating fish.  More important things to focus on will be light penetration and nutrient loads the right mix of the two will always have you finding the largest fish of that body of water. Water temp is a broad variable that mainly relates to the metabolism of the fish in that range (eating good or lethargic).  Bass follow food....... light penetration, nutrient load and wind direction control the location of zooplankton which is what most baitfish consume which in turn bass consume.

[IndianaFinesse]

5 hours ago, Troy1985s said:

 

If they are not seeking colder or warmer water, then what is the reason for them moving back to deep water during summer and moving to even deeper water in the winter? (I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really curious to hear your thoughts)

One, because they are a creature of habit, and they follow seasonal patterns just because their instinct tells them to.  They don't really have much of a choice in the matter.  Two, how the heck would a bass know where the warmer/colder water is?  It's not like a school of bass get together and one of them says "hey guys, I know where some warmer water is, let's go there!".  Three, bass are cold blooded, which means that they are the same temperature as there surroundings.  This means that since being cold/hot is relative in relation to the organism's internal body heat, a cold blooded animal is always comfortable in any temperature.  There metabolism slows down in cold water and very hot water, which means that they don't have to eat as much and they move slower.  It doesn't mean that they are uncomfortable.  

[scaleface]

In a fishery with clear  stable water levels , the bass will do a lot more roaming in open water than a fishery with muddy water that  floods often . I  fish both and they are not the same . 

[Catt]

21 hours ago, Troy1985s said:

 

If they are not seeking colder or warmer water, then what is the reason for them moving back to deep water during summer and moving to even deeper water in the winter? (I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really curious to hear your thoughts)

 

Comfort to us is sitting in a recliner with feet propped up in front of the boobtube 

 

Anglers often respond to failure and frustration by over-complicating theory and technique. As much as it helps our egos to regard a difficult task as complex, this type of thinking is often the biggest obstacle between you and your fishing success.

 

Sometimes we need to take the blinders off, step back, & look at the whole picture.

 

Yes I believe bass occupy a specific home range, yes I've seen numbers like Roger's but I've seen numbers totally opposite in both natural & man-made bodies of water. GPS tracking showed specific breaks/breaklines followed both ways.

 

I don't know how we went from talking structure to temperatures?

 

That little 200' radius home range contains everything that bass needs to survive & if the "temperature" does not meet our expectations the bass don't care. There is a list of requirements needed for survival, temperature is not a high priority.

[12poundbass]

1: I love it when Catt, RoLo, and WRB debate. We get so much valuable info thrown our way

2: I feel bad for the poor saps who pay for this type of info. 

3: keep up the good work fellas, I say we do this once a month. Who's with me? ?

[Chowderhead]

4 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

1: I love it when Catt, RoLo, and WRB debate. We get so much valuable info thrown our way.

 

Agreed - that is why I enjoy the experience, knowledge, and insight that this forum provides. 

[Catt]

Can't answer for the other two but I learn quite a bit

[geo g]

All year long big bass are always going to be close to a supple food supply.  They will seek shade in the heat of summer, either from heavy cover, structure like docks and lay downs, or a combination of both.  The heavy cover makes for comfortable shelter, good ambush points, cooler water, and the most important factor, higher oxygen levels.  Oxygen levels are an extremely important variable that is often depleted when water temps climb into the 90's, during this time of year.  Find these locations close to a drop-off, and you may have struck gold.  In the heat of summer I will always look for weed lines close to drop-offs, even if the drop-off is only a few feet deep.  Bass will move up and down these depth changes especially if the drop-off provides shade in the morning or afternoon when the sun is low in the sky.  At mid day I will focus of the thickest, greenest cover close to the drop-off.  In Florida we a blessed with loads of heavy cover, but also have oxygen depleted water in many of the deeper parts of our lakes from decaying vegetation down deep.  Find the greenest, thickest, stuff and fish it during mid day heat.  O2 levels are especially important in any summer pattern.  

[RoLo]

On 6/1/2017 at 8:39 AM, Troy1985s said:

 

If they are not seeking colder or warmer water, then what is the reason for them moving back to deep water during summer and moving to even deeper water in the winter? (I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really curious to hear your thoughts)

 

No sarcasm at all, it just shows that you're thinking

 

Rather than parrot anything I've read, I'd rather tell you what I truly believe (i.e. facts that I can defend). 

I reject the notion that fish move deeper in winter in search of comfort, because cold-blooded creatures

are relatively comfortable in all but extreme temperatures. If the body temperature of a warm-blooded

animal like man, deviates a few degrees above or below normal, death is imminent. In stark contrast,

fish are cold-blooded creatures that have absolutely no use for a pain warning system (benign sadism).

Every ice-fisherman knows if you toss a flash frozen yellow perch in the lake, it'll thaw out & swim away. 

I trust you've never heard of that happening with a scuba diver.

 

It's my opinion that fish in winter instinctively gravitate to RDC (Rapid Depth Change).

A fish's metabolic rate in winter is the lowest of the year, when they're most conservative of calories.

The most heavily utilized depth range of largemouth bass is arguably 3 to 18 ft (natural/artificial lakes).

During the winter, bass that aggregate at a bluff bank may only have to travel 10 yds to change the depth

from 18 ft to 3 ft (Yes, bass in winter do make forays into very shallow water). A bass that dares to spend

the winter on a slow-tapering slope may have to travel 100 yards or more to shuttle between deep

and shallow water. Unhappily, this bass will be burning about 10 times more calories. In light of the fact

that the metabolic rate is lowest in winter, her odds of survival will be significantly compromised.

 

Roger