Jerkbait break off on strike/hookset problem

[Viper0463]

Ok I'm trying to figure out if maybe i did something or maybe just bad luck but, it's happened 3 times over the last 2 weeks and it's starting to cost more money than I'm comfortable with.  Here's what's happening, I'm using a jerk bait and on the slack line I'll get a crushing strike I mean they just hammer it and almost pull the rod out of my hands and I'll sweep back and it's like the lure was never there. just gone. I know it's not a toothy critter as the lakes this has happened at have none in them and 2 of the 3 break offs the bass decided to jump out of the water a few seconds after the break off and give me the preverbal middle finger and toss my lure 5 or so feet away from them adding the insult to my already damaged ego for loosing a expensive bait. I'm using 30# braid to a 10# fluorocarbon leader. I have since the last break off switched to 12# to see if maybe it was just the line. I'm not doing a hard hook set I'm doing the sweeping motion but the strikes have been very very hard. Oh I almost forgot to mention I was using the Palomar knot and I have never had this problem in over 30 years with that knot so I didn't think thats the problem but it could be. Any other ideas on what could have caused the random break offs? 

[RoLo]

 

Have you tried eliminating the leader, and tying direct to your braided line?

 

Roger

 

 

[Viper0463]

1 hour ago, RoLo said:

 

Have you tried eliminating the leader, and tying direct to your braided line?

 

Roger

 

 

No one have not. My leader knot isn't breaking, my leader is breaking at the lure or very close to it.  I always use a leader because I feel that I get more strikes. I fish a lot of real clear water and I think the fish see the braid when it's tired direct.  

[livin2fish]

Rolo's suggestion is a good one. 

My first question would be, did the break occur at the lure connection, or at the knot connecting the two two lines?  Based on your saying that you use a Palomar knot, my assumption is the knot is breaking at the lure connection.  If you have used the Palomar for 30 years without problems you obviously know how to tie it and if your setup, rod, line, and leader is the same as you have used successfully in the past for jerk bait fishing, either the leader material has gone bad, or you have gotten into some larger (stronger) fish than normal.

My second question would be, did you have your drag locked down?  With 10# fluor and two knots, some adjustment of the drag may be needed, to compensate for the crushing strikes you have been getting.  Just my 2 cents.   

My bad, Viper beat me and answered my first question.

Edited May 22, 2017 by livin2fish

[Spinerbait58]

14 minutes ago, livin2fish said:

Rolo's suggestion is a good one. 

My first question would be, did the break occur at the lure connection, or at the knot connecting the two two lines?  Based on your saying that you use a Palomar knot, my assumption is the knot is breaking at the lure connection.  If you have used the Palomar for 30 years without problems you obviously know how to tie it and if your setup, rod, line, and leader is the same as you have used successfully in the past for jerk bait fishing, either the leader material has gone bad, or you have gotten into some larger (stronger) fish than normal.

My second question would be, did you have your drag locked down?  With 10# fluor and two knots, some adjustment of the drag may be needed, to compensate for the crushing strikes you have been getting.  Just my 2 cents.   

My bad, Viper beat me and answered my first question.

 

[Spinerbait58]

Yea at the price of Jerkbaits you hate to lose them,Two things come to mine, When sinching down your knot  make shure you moisten the line,and don't overtighten the knot,secure the knot ,but don't really pull down on the line to the point you stretch the  florocarbon . Remember the old saying a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. With florocarbon being the weak link in your chain. I use all florocarbon on my jerkbait rods with out any problem's, Rember braid has no stretch !! Hope this helps

[Deleted account]

loose the flouro and use 12 lb mono.

[Team9nine]

Personally, I'd ditch the braid. That said, if you insist on keeping it, you need to make sure your fluoro isn't bad, and then get more forgiveness in your setup (drag, rod, etc.)...or simply try and overpower the whole thing and tie direct to your braid. 

[webertime]

You could have a bad batch of Fluoro for sure. 

I'd wager (if it's not the fluoro being bad) that it's the knot being compromised by heat from tying and/or the split-ring is nicking the knot.  I've never had good luck with a "Line to Leader" set usp on jerkbaits.  8lb YZH or 10lb Sniper depending on the bait.

[WIGuide]

It sounds like you could have issues with your fluoro, knot, or both. It sounds like you're on the right track with changing out that leader and seeing if that fixes things. Personally, I don't use braid with jerkbaits, and due to the nature of jerkbait hooks, my drag is set very light. 

[DubyaDee]

I had issues with this same thing a couple years back. I was throwing straight braid and occasionally used a flouro leader. I was getting too excited with my hooksets and the line would break at the knot. Now I've switched to straight 10 lb flouro with thin sticky hooks and no issues at all. 

 

My mentality changed when I started fishing jerkbaits more finesse. Thinner hooks, lighter line, lighter drag. Keep your hooks sharp and don't swing for the fences and you'll land most all of your jerkbait fish.

[je1946]

Sometime when attaching flouro to braid when pulling the knot tight the braid will actually burn the flouro and weaken it.  wet your line and pull slow and steady, then take a few good tugs on your line to ensure it hasn't weakened the line.

 

 

[J Francho]

Are you sure they aren't bite offs from pickerel, pike, or muskie?

 

And in my opinion, braid is the wrong tool for this.  Straight up mono or copoly is the best for jerkbaits.

[Viper0463]

My drag was set kinda loose and I will say that the 2 fish that jumped out of the water and spit the lure after the break off were from a look substantially larger than most of what I've been hooking into. I'll be Fishing this week and I'll see how the change to 12# does. 

[Angry John]

I use 10 lb yhb for jerkbaits and get plenty of bites.  On spinning I use 6 yhb.  Flouro in cold water I believe gets more brittle and I am not a fan.

[J Francho]

7 minutes ago, Angry John said:

Flouro in cold water I believe gets more brittle and I am not a fan.

 

Sorry, that's a myth.  I use 4# fluoro fishing for winter steelhead in near freezing water.  It does not get brittle.  In fact, the only line you can't use is braid because that freezes to itself.

[WRB]

Do you store the jerk bait on the rod using a guide? Sharp hook barbs can cut the line when stored on rod guides and hangers, use a lure blanket to protect the line. FC line is notorious for having knot strength issues with any knot tied improperly and it's difficult to tie a Palomar knot onto multiple treble hook lures, use a San Diego jam knot.

Tom

[Viper0463]

I'm going to try a new knot also. I've never had a problem with cold water and fluorocarbon. I also fish for steelhead and in well below 45 degree water have not had any problems with line breaks. I use the reel or hook hanger to hold the lure. How often do you all re tie? 

[Fisher-O-men]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

FC line is notorious for having knot strength issues with any knot tied improperly and it's difficult to tie a Palomar knot onto multiple treble hook lures, use a San Diego jam knot.

Exactly what I was thinking but my knot preference is the UNI.  Also I would agree that there is no need for FC.  Straight braid, straight mono (nylon) or mono leader.

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Viper0463 said:

I'm going to try a new knot also. I've never had a problem with cold water and fluorocarbon. I also fish for steelhead and in well below 45 degree water have not had any problems with line breaks. I use the reel or hook hanger to hold the lure. How often do you all re tie? 

The hooks swing around and contact or hang on the line. The sharp barbs can nick or cut the line from vibration. I retie every trip and Check my line constantly for any nicks or abrasion as a meter of habit by feeling and looking at the line.

When you see a shiny or flatten spot on the line it's damaged and usually occurs during knot tieing.

Tom

[RoLo]

14 hours ago, Viper0463 said:

No one have not. My leader knot isn't breaking, my leader is breaking at the lure or very close to it.  I always use a leader because I feel that I get more strikes. I fish a lot of real clear water and I think the fish see the braid when it's tired direct.  

 

I was simply suggesting that you give it a shot, irregardless of line-visibility (they see fluoro line too).

By losing the leader you are eliminating both the 'knot' & 'fluorocarbon', which is bound to show you something.

 

Roger

[Viper0463]

11 minutes ago, RoLo said:

 

I was simply suggesting that you give it a shot, irregardless of line-visibility (they see fluoro line too).

By losing the leader you are eliminating both the 'knot' & 'fluorocarbon', which is bound to show you something.

Roger

 

I understand what you were saying I was just letting you know what was breaking. Most of the time when someone asks about line breakage at the local BPS the morons there always tell them it's their leader knot. sorry for the confusion.

 

1 hour ago, Fisher-O-men said:

Exactly what I was thinking but my knot preference is the UNI.  Also I would agree that there is no need for FC.  Straight braid, straight mono (nylon) or mono leader.

I don't understand why you say there is no need for fc? It has low stretch and low visibility and sinks, all of those would seem to be good qualities for a jerk bait line. Maybe it's just my thought process though.

 

1 hour ago, WRB said:

The hooks swing around and contact or hang on the line. The sharp barbs can nick or cut the line from vibration. I retie every trip and Check my line constantly for any nicks or abrasion as a meter of habit by feeling and looking at the line.

When you see a shiny or flatten spot on the line it's damaged and usually occurs during knot tieing.

Tom

 I do have a problem of every so often the front hook grabs the line, maybe that could be part of the cause. I know for a fact that the last lure I lost, the cast just before I lost it the hook had grabbed the line. I didn't even think about that. It didn't seem to have any nicks or bad spots but maybe it did. 

[RoLo]

 

2 hours ago, Fisher-O-men said:

 Also I would agree that there is no need for FC. 

 

15 minutes ago, Viper0463 said:

I don't understand why you say there is no need for fc? It has low stretch and low visibility and sinks, all of those would seem to be good qualities for a jerk bait line. Maybe it's just my thought process though.

 

 

Low Stretch??

I’m not aware of a single study that found fluorocarbon to have less stretch than nylon line.

Some fluorocarbon lines stretch less than some nylon lines, and some fluorocarbon lines stretch more than some nylon lines. As it happens, line brand has a bigger influence on line stretch than line material.

Apparently I've been spoiled by non-stretch braided line. I gave fluorocarbon line a college try,

but found myself taking one step backward during the hook-set to compensate for line stretch.

 

Fluoro Sinks

Fluorocarbon is slightly heavier than water and sinks very slowly "at rest”.

However, as soon as fluorocarbon line is dragged laterally thru the water (water is incompressible)

it’s obese diameter generates water resistance that causes the line to plane upward.

Whether cranking or trolling, a lure tied to braid will run deeper than the same lure tied to fluorocarbon.

 

Line Visibility

The importance of line-visibility cannot be proven, for this reason the debate will rage on forever.

Personally, we’ve been tying braided line directly to our lures from Florida to Canada.

If nothing else, we've proved that there's no shortage of fish of all species with poor eyesight 

 

Roger

 

 

[Viper0463]

10 minutes ago, RoLo said:

 

2 hours ago, Fisher-O-men said:

 

 Also I would agree that there is no need for FC. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Viper0463 said:

 

I don't understand why you say there is no need for fc? It has low stretch and low visibility and sinks, all of those would seem to be good qualities for a jerk bait line. Maybe it's just my thought process though.

 

 

Low Stretch??

I’m not aware of one study that found fluorocarbon to have less stretch than nylon.

Some fluorocarbon lines stretch less than some nylon lines, and some fluorocarbon lines stretch more than some nylon lines. Brand has a greater influence than line material. (Using Tatsu, I found myself taking one step backward during the hook-set!)

 

Fluoro Sinks

Fluorocarbon is slightly heavier than water and sinks very slowly at “rest”.

As soon as fluorocarbon line is dragged laterally thru the water (water is incompressible)

it’s obese diameter causes the line to plane up higher in the water than braided line,

which only generates ‘half’ the water resistance of fluorocarbon line.

Whether cranked or trolled, a lure on braid is going to run deeper that the same lure on fluorocarbon line.

 

Line Visibility

The importance of line-visibility cannot be proven, therefore the debate will rage on forever.

Personally, we’ve been tying braided line directly to our lures from Florida to Canada,

and we've found that there is no shortage of fish of all species with poor eyesight 

 

Roger

 

 

I don't really want to get into a ticking match here but, mono line has more stretch than fc in every application I have used it in. I don't need a study to show me that.  Give a company enough money and they can make a study to prove whatever they want to prove. Hell communism looks good on paper but not in application. 

 

Fc line sinks period. why did you feel the need to try and argue that I don't know. 

 

In clear water the importance of visibility is important to me I don't know about you but, I want every possible advantage and low line visibility is a advantage. just ask some steelhead fisherman.

 

You like braid, ok i get it. I like braid also but as a mainline with a leader option. I'm not going to go back and forth with anyone about whats better or worse. 

 

I'm sure I'll get banned now as I disagreed with someone. That seems to be how things work here. Don't conform BANNED.

 

Close this thread. I'm done with it.

[.ghoti.]

Before you just leave, answer a question for us. Is there a small curl at the end of your line after a break off? That would indicate the knot broke. No curl indicates the line broke somewhere besides the knot. That would help in figuring out the problem.

 

If it happens again, rinse off the line well, and run it between your lips and over your tongue. You can feel abrasion this way that you cant see. 

 

Alao, what brand fluoro are you using. Some are more susceptible to knot damage, some are more prone to abrasion problems, and some are just not good line.

 

If youre reeling the knot in past the tip guide, I recommend checking your guides, including the tip guide with a q-tip, looking for a cracked ring. Fibers from a dry q-tip will catch on a crack that you might not be able to see.

 

Let us know. Maybe we can help. 

 

By the way, I refuse to use braid myself, and have little use for fluoro, but I dont see anything wrong with your setup.