Backlashing mid cast/ Can't get distance

[Shak Muscles]

So I just got a baitcasting setup and I'm a pretty casual fisherman so I have no clue what I'm doing. I've read all the articles and such and adjusted my spool tension to match my bait(I throw mostly senkos which are about 3/8 oz). I have my brakes around 7-9 out of 9 total brakes. However, even with smooth motions I still end up backlashing when I do overhead casts, and it is often mid cast even though I'm thumbing the spool and making it stop before it hits the water. Any tips on how to fix this? 

Also, using the measure distance tool on google maps, I estimated that in general I'm only casting around 25 yards tops(usually around 20-25 yds). And I've heard that most people can throw most lures around 30-40 yards. Casting distance is needed for me since I fish from the shore on ponds and some areas are inaccessible on foot. On my spinning setup which is just a 50$ combo from bass pro I can cast around 30 yds pretty easily. And I thought that baitcasters in general cast further than spinning rods. 

 

As for my equipment, I didn't buy anything super expensive since I'm just a casual fisherman.

Rod- *** Fate Chrome 7'1" Medium power Extra fast action. Lure weight 1/4oz to 3/4oz or something like that

Reel- KastKing assassin (I heard good reviews about this reel)

Line- Powerpro super 8 slick 20lb braid. 

[riverbasser]

Normally a backlash mid cast has to do with brakes since bait is normally being caught in wind. But since your brakes are near maxed out I'm not sure what's happening. I will say 20lb braid is pretty small for a BC. I use 30lb minimum. I also don't fish weightless senkos. This is a job for a spinning reel.

 

Have you tried throwing any other lures with some more weight to them?

[Hez]

I let a fellow angler use my son's Kast King Legend this past Saturday.  He backlashed often (the guy is a BFL co-angler, he knows how to use a baitcaster) as well.  When I got home I took the kast king apart to see if I could figure out what the problem might have been.

 

Only thing I noticed was that the #1 centrifugal brakes on the interior was in the on position.  I have not got to take this reel back out and test it yet, but I encourage you to check out yours  (maybe watch a how-to video on adjusting them first) and see if this helps.

 

Some of the admins here have received a few of these reels to test them out, and have actually taken them apart to compare the guts.  One of those guys might have more to say on this particular topic.

[Montanaro]

Mid cast would seem to indicate that your spool is spinning faster than your lure is pulling out line.  Use heavier lure/tighten spool tension knob/try not to whip your cast as it will create excessive spool rpm.

[fishballer06]

Your braking on your reel sounds good (in fact, maybe overkill for a Senko), but I would question if your spool tension needs adjusted more. You want that bait to just fall slowly if you release the clutch with the bait just hanging. The best way I would say to do this for a beginner is to tighten it to the point that the bait won't fall at all, and then slowly loosen it up until the bait starts barely falling. Take a few casts with it like that. Once you get the feel of it, loosen it up a hair more so you've got a slow but consistent fall to the bait. This should give you an optimal balance of casting distance and backlash control.

 

This also could all be overthinking on my part. You mentioned this only happens during overhead casts. Do you have this issue with side arm casts or while pitching? If it's only during over head casting, it's possible your form isn't perfect yet. Keep practicing and it will come to you. 

 

As for your distance, 25 yards with a weightless Senko is still pretty darn good. You're talking 75 feet at that point. In reality, a weightless Senko with a hook is probably around a 1/4oz. (maybe a hair over). You've got the proper rod for fishing a Senko, so I wouldn't blame it on that. With practice, you'll get better. If you're beating the banks and want to reach spots that you couldn't reach before, consider purchasing some knee high muck boots or some hip waders. Back whenever I fished the banks, I wore hip waders to help get me out into deeper water that the normal bank guys weren't fishing. Spots that I thought were good fishing spots, were only two feet deep at 60 feet out from the shore. 

[12poundbass]

Like Fishballer said try a sidearm cast or something in between. I have the same problem when I cast overhead. I switched to a sidearm cast and no problems since. 

[RoLo]

 

Overrun during mid-cast points to the braking system, but if it occurs

during the last half of the cast, as I suspect, I'd re-adjust the spool tension.

 

Hold the rod parallel to the ground, depress the thumb bar and let the lure

hit the ground in a freefall. If there's any indication of overrun on the spool,

(fluffy line) get rid of it by tightening your tension knob.

 

Roger

[Team9nine]

Sounds like your outfit is fine. Based on the bait and what you wrote, I'm chalking this one up to inexperience and over expectations. I think things will improve with a little  more time and experience.

[david in va]

Well mine [Kastking Stealth] was doing the same thing, I can help I think. take the side cover off and put all the brakes on, turn the dial to 9, adj the spool so the bait falls slowly to the ground and the spool stops when the bait touches ground. and put 50 lb braid on, make sure you wind it tight.

 Then make some casts side arm. cast with just the wrist. Thumb the reel just as the bait hits water

 you can back off the brake after you get use  to it.

 David

Edited April 24, 2017 by david in va
spelling

[offsidewing]

A rod has a rating for line diameter like lure weights (20lb braid is about same diameter as 6 or 8lb mono) so check on that.  Also make sure your spool isn't over filled with line.  Keep in mind if you're whipping a casting rod like a spinning rod you're gonna have issues, especially with thin diameter line.

 

I will avoid any comments on quality or longevity of the forum sponsor Kast King reels, but about the only non-glowing comment they receive from the mods who tested them are that they require a trained thumb when casting.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

First off, for sheer distance spinning tackle is the way to go. That said, 25 yards is not terrible. Over head casts are rarely the best. Whipping the rod gets the spool spinning fast causing the over run as the bait decelerates. The rod may well be too powerful and not loading correctly. Cast with a smooth motion. Let the rod do the work 

[moguy1973]

1 hour ago, LowRange said:

It sounds like your spool speed is too fast and is feeding more line to the bait than it can take causing the line to fluff up mid cast and then the spools slows too rapidly at the end of the cast shortening distance.  

 

CLASSIC linear mag braking behavior.

 

What you're after is a reel with a centrifugal braking componet.  Centrifugal brakes will cut in through centrifugal forces and govern the spool rpm then cut out as the spool slows alowing for long casts.  If you are ok with a plastic frame reel I would try to find a Shimano Casitas or other Shimano SVS reel.  You can set up an SVS reel with little to no spool tension and the centrifugal brakes are suffcent to contol the spool.

The Kastking Assassin has centrifugal brakes. I'm guessing none of them are on.  I would start with 3 of them on and three off and go from there.  Make sure they are on in a triangle pattern skipping every other one. 

[david in va]

23 minutes ago, offsidewing said:

A rod has a rating for line diameter like lure weights (20lb braid is about same diameter as 6 or 8lb mono) so check on that.  Also make sure your spool isn't over filled with line.  Keep in mind if you're whipping a casting rod like a spinning rod you're gonna have issues, especially with thin diameter line.

 

I will avoid any comments on quality or longevity of the forum sponsor Kast King reels, but about the only non-glowing comment they receive from the mods who tested them are that they require a trained thumb when casting.

I have a quality reel coming to compare the Kastking with. I will let all know the outcome

David

[Shak Muscles]

4 hours ago, riverbasser said:

Normally a backlash mid cast has to do with brakes since bait is normally being caught in wind. But since your brakes are near maxed out I'm not sure what's happening. I will say 20lb braid is pretty small for a BC. I use 30lb minimum. I also don't fish weightless senkos. This is a job for a spinning reel.

 

Have you tried throwing any other lures with some more weight to them?

No a senko is all I've tried so far. 

3 hours ago, fishballer06 said:

This also could all be overthinking on my part. You mentioned this only happens during overhead casts. Do you have this issue with side arm casts or while pitching? If it's only during over head casting, it's possible your form isn't perfect yet. Keep practicing and it will come to you. 

I usually only have issues with overhead casts, but sometimes when I whip sidearms I get the issue. Maybe I'm so used to using a spinning rod that I am whipping the rod without really noticing it, like other posters have said.  

 

Also, I think I was being too vague when I just said mid cast. I meant that the senko would be flying out just fine and look like it was going to be a nice and smooth cast and then out of the blue without warning it would just knot up and the bait would jerk to a stop and flop on the water. And these backlashes aren't bad they're only tiny little twists(or whatever they're called) which I get out in like 5 seconds but it gets annoying when it seems every cast just jerks to a stop. 

[RoLo]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

I'm chalking this one up to inexperience and over expectations.

 

Yah, I suppose that's what I should've said    

Then again, I wasn't sure how to spell 'inxpeeriense'    

 

Roger

   

 

[Shak Muscles]

1 hour ago, LowRange said:

is your spool over filled?  Too much line on the spool can have problems getting out of its own way and wrap up on itself causing spool stops.  Light braid is particularly prone to this.

I think that its not overfilled but I'm not sure. Its a little below the edge of the entire spool. On the Assassin reel atleast there is a blue line which marks the end of the spool and the line goes a bit under that. So I don't think its over filled but I'm not completely sure. 

I actually went out today and practiced my casts and I was casting much smoother than the past few days. It wasn't backlashing as much and I tried some of the tips such as setting the brakes at 0 before setting tension and I purposely set my tension a bit higher than usual and kept my brakes at 9. I also opened up the brake compartment of my reel but I didn't see any brake thingys inside except for the dial, so I'm not sure about setting the centrifugals on the reel. 

 

I feel like the big difference actually came from my casting motion, this time it was less of a whip and more of a smooth full body cast, meaning I put my whole body momentum into it like throwing a football. It seemed kinda odd but it worked. And I was getting better distance despite my tension being high and my brakes on full. I can say maybe I touched 90 ft(about 30 yds). Which is an improvement for me. It seems I just need more hang time on my casts. However occasionally I still experienced the sudden stop of the spool in mid air. Honestly I wouldn't really call it a backlash more just a abrupt stop due to the line getting a little tangled up. 

Could it be that I'm just not feathing the spool properly. When I set the tension high I just quit feathering the spool because I didn't want to cast really short and it worked out fine for the most part. I feel like when I feather the spool the cast ends up being much shorter, and it doesn't really make a difference on the backlashes. Maybe my thumb is doing things incorrectly?

[david in va]

 The 20 lb braid is the problem with the mid air stops the line is biting into the lower layers

the internal breaks are under the dial;

line too small

 

[.ghoti.]

1 hour ago, RoLo said:

 

Yah, I suppose that's what I should've said    

Then again, I wasn't sure how to spell 'inxpeeriense'    

 

Roger

   

 

Now that's droll, right there.

[RoLo]

34 minutes ago, .ghoti. said:

Now that's droll, right there.

 

                  

[fishnkamp]

For your next practice session tie on a heavier bait like a texas rigged plastic worm with a 3/8  or 1/2 ounce worm weight. I want you to get used to how the reel plays. As you get better with it loosen off the brakes and the cst control a tiny bit at a time. If you are set at 9 on the brakes, practice till that feels good. Then back off to 7  or 8 and loosen up the spool tension a touch, just a little. As you get better you will see longer distances. I also recommend buying a cheap hula hoop from the dollar store. Begin trying to cast into the hoop for learning accuracy.

I agree with many of these guys I would probably pull off your braid ( put it on a spool to reuse on some spinning gear.

I like to first spool some mono then fill the rest of the spool with the braid. If I fill the reel half way with both lines I make my more expensive braid spool fill two reels.

[Airman4754]

You're casting too hard. 

[fishballer06]

11 hours ago, david in va said:

 The 20 lb braid is the problem with the mid air stops the line is biting into the lower layers

the internal breaks are under the dial; line too small

 

I'm starting to think the same thing too. Step up to 40 lb. braid and it should help ease this issue.

[TX-Deluxe]

Have you tried all the brakes on? 

[Shak Muscles]

19 hours ago, fishnkamp said:

I agree with many of these guys I would probably pull off your braid ( put it on a spool to reuse on some spinning gear.

I like to first spool some mono then fill the rest of the spool with the braid. If I fill the reel half way with both lines I make my more expensive braid spool fill two reels.

Yeah I used the mono backing trick so I don't cover my entire spool with braid. The reason I went with 20lb test braid was so that I could use a fluorocarbon leader on it and tie the FG knot. With the FG knot you pretty much need thin(er) braid so that it can dig into the fluorocarbon line. And I think my rod has microguides, I need the slim profile of the FG knot. If I put 40lb braid and 20+lb fluoro as my leader I think the knot would have a harder time getting through the guides. 

 

I'm in a dilemma here. I guess I could go with just braid and forget the leader.

 

I do get the feeling that the braid is digging into itself and causing my casts to stop abruptly. So I guess I gotta get 40lb test. Would that be bad for microguides though, since my line will be much thicker?

[fishnkamp]

Try using P line CXX 8 pound test for the leader. I use it with 14 pound tes FireLine, 30 pound Power Pro Spectra braid and 832 braid.