Helix 9 depth indication problem

[MickD]

I had my new Lund Rebel 1650 ss on the water Sunday, with a Helix 9 with the side imaging big flat transducer, and found that I only had accurate speed indication when I was going fairly slowly.  As I would speed up, in 10-15 feet of water, at about 20mph the depth indication would slowly climb in number until it was reading totally unrealistic high numbers.  The transducer is mounted so it's about 1/2 inch below the bottom of the hull, which seems about right to me.  My first move,without having any expert advice, would be to lower it a quarter to 1/2 inch.  Do others have this problem with the Helix 9 with this transducer?  Does anyone have a solution to propose?  thanks, Mick

 

PS, never had this problem with my old Monark and the Eagle 640 Elite unit.

[riverbasser]

The depth finder is losing the bottom as you speed up. ive never had a depthfinder read bottom depth accurately over 10mph. I think some of the thru-hull transducers hold on to the bottom longer but I cant say that for sure. I believe some on here have stated they still get readings around 15mph but that has never been the case for me.

 

Wayne should chime in soon 

[MickD]

Thanks.  I've had my Eagle 640 Elite have no trouble at 15-20 mph in 15-20 feet of water.  I talked to Humminbird support and the problem can be solved with another $100 purchase, second transducer and cable.  So I paid about $4000 for motor and two graphs and cannot tell how deep the water is at over 6 mph unless I spend another $100.  This is very disappointing to say the least.  No warning from the dealer, nothing I can find in the manual, supposedly there is mention of it on the website, if you search for "high speed."

 

[riverbasser]

Just now, MickD said:

Thanks.  I've had my Eagle 640 Elite have no trouble at 15-20 mph in 15-20 feet of water.  I talked to Humminbird support and the problem can be solved with another $100 purchase, second transducer and cable.  So I paid about $4000 for motor and two graphs and cannot tell how deep the water is at over 6 mph unless I spend another $100.  This is very disappointing to say the least.  No warning from the dealer, nothing I can find in the manual, supposedly there is mention of it on the website, if you search for "high speed."

 

what is different about the other transducer? are you adding it or replacing your original tranducer?

[MickD]

The second transducer, an added transducer,  Hum says I need is a smaller, puck style transducer that is plugged into one wire of the Y cable, with the original big mega transducer plugged into the other.  They go to the unit by the original cable from the original transducer, and the unit auto sorts the signals to give accurate readings at speeds over the 6-10 max of the original transducer.  But. . . on one  Hum trouble shooting item on the web site it says a second transducer can block the signal going to the side imaging transducer.  I have no idea if the transducer they recommend I buy is a problem or not.

[Wayne P.]

IF you attach the transducer to the transom so it can give you depth at speed, it will. It comes with a transom skimmer transducer. It has more surface area than the tiny Eagle transducer. Do you have the MEGA SI transducer, Compact SI transducer or the HDSI transducer? 

 

You have to choose between image quality and high speed depth/2D, you can't do both.

 

You must not have the temp sensor end low enough to get good water flow across the face of the transducer and are getting cavitation. Either that or your hull has rivets or dents in the bottom creating aerated water to prevent proper operation.

[MickD]

19 minutes ago, riverbasser said:

The depth finder is losing the bottom as you speed up. ive never had a depthfinder read bottom depth accurately over 10mph. I think some of the thru-hull transducers hold on to the bottom longer but I cant say that for sure. I believe some on here have stated they still get readings around 15mph but that has never been the case for me.

 

Wayne should chime in soon 

 

With the Eagle I had there was only a problem if the transducer was not mounted the correct height relative to the water coming off the bottom of the hull.  If the water were too deep, like 30-50 feet, at some speed, like 20mph, it can be a problem as you mention when the signal gets back to the transducer after the boat is gone. 

4 minutes ago, Wayne P. said:

IF you attach the transducer to the transom so it can give you depth at speed, it will. It comes with a transom skimmer transducer. It has more surface area than the tiny Eagle transducer. Do you have the MEGA SI transducer, Compact SI transducer or the HDSI transducer? 

 

You have to choose between image quality and high speed depth/2D, you can't do both.

 

You must not have the temp sensor end low enough to get good water flow across the face of the transducer and are getting cavitation. Either that or your hull has rivets or dents in the bottom creating aerated water to prevent proper operation.

 

The Helix 9 Chirp SI GPS G2N came with one transducer, a flat one about 3 x 6 inches viewed from the top, I think it is the Mega SI transducer.  It is mounted about 1/2 in below the hull edge.  Are you suggesting that I try lowering it, Wayne?

 

According to Humminbird I don't have to chose between SI image quality and good depth indication at speed if I spend another $100.  Do you believe this is not true? thanks for coming on.

[Wayne P.]

You did not state the whole name of that model---- Helix 9 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G2N.

There is only one MEGA SI transducer for the Helix models, and the G2N SI units H9, H10, and H12 units come with it. The SOLIX MEGA SI transducer is the same size with the same mount, just a different cable--I have one of those.

 

Simply physics:

To get high speed depth readings, the temp sensor end has to be lower than the mount end so it deflects the water some to get a smooth water flow across it. It is shown in the installation instructions.

 

To get the best Imaging, the transducer face has to be parallel with the water's surface so the Imaging pulses are vertical at idle speed when scanning.

 

You can't have both.

 

What most do is use two transducers and place the lot more expensive Imaging transducer above the hull bottom some so it is not exposed to possible impact damage. Then they use a 2D transducer, either shoot-thru or transom mounted, for Depth/2D. That is what Humminbird is advising.

BUT it will provide depth on plane at 50+ mph IF you do the correct install for it and your hull will allow it.

 

[MickD]

Thanks, Wayne.  I appreciate your advice and tech support.  My wife will be so pleased to find out I have to spend another $100 to make this outfit work as well as the one I sold. :-)

 

Yes, I understand I didn't have SI on the other one.

 

The name of the unit, which is mega, is exactly "Helix 9 Chirp SI GPS G2N"  on the box label that also has the serial number on it.  

 

Wayne, while I'm here, another question, if I may.  I see on my menu that it has an autochart selection, and the text on this model in the "catalogs" says it has autochart capability.  Does it?  And I think I know the answer, but verify, I have to buy more stuff to make it work?  thanks again.  Much appreciated.

[Wayne P.]

http://www.humminbird.com/Products/HELIX-9-CHIRP-MEGA--SI-GPS-G2N/

 

It has Auto Chart Live which is 8 hours of built-in real time contour map creation.

You need nothing else to use it up to that 8 hours.

After that you have to DELETE or transfer the data to a Zero Line Card to get 8 more hours or you can leave the Zero Line Card in the unit and get a few lifetimes of contour map creation. The Zero Line Card has millions of zero lines (shorelines).

 

You can also RECORD to a blank formatted regular memory card and use that data with Auto Chart or Auto Chart Pro computer software to create Auto Chart contour maps that are read like Lakemaster digital mapping.

 

 

 

 

[MickD]

Wayne, sounds like I should have been given an autochart chip with my unit based on what you and the catalog text says, do you know that this is  correct?  

[Wayne P.]

No unit comes with an Auto Chart chip. Auto Chart Live is built into the unit's memory.

 

 

[MickD]

I've contacted Humminbird and they offered about a 25% discount on the second transducer and Y cable, and state that when installed correctly the Helix 9 will automatically, without having to select a different transducer, read SI correctly at low speeds and depth properly at higher speeds.  

 

I really think they are obligated to do more since there is not mention that I can find anywhere that buying over $2000 worth of their electronics won't tell you how deep the water is if you're going faster than 6 mph.  But it's not world peace, and I took them up on it.

[Wayne P.]

3 hours ago, MickD said:

I've contacted Humminbird and they offered about a 25% discount on the second transducer and Y cable, and state that when installed correctly the Helix 9 will automatically, without having to select a different transducer, read SI correctly at low speeds and depth properly at higher speeds.  

 

I really think they are obligated to do more since there is not mention that I can find anywhere that buying over $2000 worth of their electronics won't tell you how deep the water is if you're going faster than 6 mph.  But it's not world peace, and I took them up on it.

 

There is no "automatically" anything. Your installation of the transducer/s determines how it will perform.

[MickD]

My point is not to state that installation doesn't have to be right; my point is that Humminbird maintains that (if it's done right) there will be no need to switch transducers in the settings.  Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Wayne P.]

IF you use the Y cable, there is no setting to select one or the other.

 

ALL of them have a 2D/Depth sonar crystal. The added 2D is the one that is connected with the Y cable and the 2D in the Imaging transducer is disconnected--it is electrical connections, not software. ONE source for 2D sonar.