line-swivel-leader?

[ohihunter2014]

I tried for about 30min the other night to tie line to floro with a double uni knot for a leader and cant get it for the life of me so i thought screw it i will just used a swivel linked below. is there any issues with doing it this way? these are like 30lbs strength and very small so i don't think anything will be able to see them. I've got mono on 2 rods and another BC with braid. I was told use a flouro leader for steelhead and also bass to help get the bait down and also help with the fish not seeing the line.

[BobP]

The problem with a swivel is that they don't go through guides very well, so you usually have to keep your leader shorter than many guys like to make them.  I always use at least 6 ft for a leader, sometimes more, so can't cast it while leaving the swivel on my slack line.  A knot works.

[A-Jay]

A swivel has adds some weight, depending on size, to your presentation.  So depending on what you're doing, that may or may not play a role.

 

Also, you obviously can't reel any connection hardware through your guides, so your leader length will be predicated on how well you can cast with some length of line hanging - may hurt your accuracy a bit. 

 

Finally, you mentioned fishing at night.  Reeling that swivel too far & up into your tip top guide at night is a real possibility and more importantly may eventually damage it.  Usually, if present, the guide insert gets popped out and ends up going out with your casts.  Line damage will then ensue followed by the sad face.

A-Jay

[bigturtle]

With a swivel, you are just adding more points of failure to your system. Instead of 1 connection knot, you now have 2 knots and the swivel itself to worry about. Not worth.

 

Learn a connection knot, like alberto knot, instead of using a swivel. Some of us here spent a lot longer than 30min perfecting their knots, and its worth the practise.

[fishnkamp]

I am really unsure why you had so much trouble trying to tie a simple double uni knot. Tell me what is the brand and pound test of your main line and what was the brand and pound test of the fluoro you were trying to tie together.

 

I use the uni to uni knot all the time and it is one of the easiest to tie while I am standing on a boat and rocking around. 

There are a few things that are important to keep an eye on while tying it.

 

First do not try to use to little or way to much line. I like about a 6 inch overlap.  It is easiest for me to tie the first knot and then move over say an inch before making the loop for the second. To me leaving a good space between the knots helps.  Do not pull the first knot down tight before you tie the second. Remember the two knots need to slide a bit back together.  Another important thing is to wet the knots just like any knot. One last thing I always watch so my wraps begin close to the where the loop starts, and  smooth as they go out towards the other end.  This way they close up smoothly without overlapping each other.   These details may help you be more successful.\

 

Here is a good video to help you out.

 

[J Francho]

Cheap swivels fail.  I use tiny micro swivels when fishing for salmon.  They test line and tackle more than any bass ever would.  Point is, if you want to use a swivel, and there are reasons to, it's not going to be a weak point if you can tie a good and use a quality swivel.  Speaking of knots, the only people I know that recommend a back to back Uni (different than a double Uni) are those that haven't had one fail on them, yet.  I was one of them, up until 6 or 7 years ago.  The only thing holding the pieces of line together is the other knot.  Over the years, I've heard many come back and tell me, "You were right! I had them fail on me." I learned and practiced the Crazy Alberto knot, until I could tie it well, and quickly.  This is a good skill to have if you are going to use a leader.  If I could tie an FG knot well enough to hold, I would probably use that.  Try and try, can't do it.

 

If you insist  on using a swivel where connection knot would be better, put a small 8-10mm plastic bead on the main line before the swivel, so you don't damage tip top ring.

[MassYak85]

The only time I use a swivel and leader is for Carolina rigging. I really think you're better off trying to learn the leader knots. It's worth the time. 

[J Francho]

Try a bead, swivel, leader and fluke.

[ohihunter2014]

3 hours ago, fishnkamp said:

I am really unsure why you had so much trouble trying to tie a simple double uni knot. Tell me what is the brand and pound test of your main line and what was the brand and pound test of the fluoro you were trying to tie together.

 

I use the uni to uni knot all the time and it is one of the easiest to tie while I am standing on a boat and rocking around. 

There are a few things that are important to keep an eye on while tying it.

 

First do not try to use to little or way to much line. I like about a 6 inch overlap.  It is easiest for me to tie the first knot and then move over say an inch before making the loop for the second. To me leaving a good space between the knots helps.  Do not pull the first knot down tight before you tie the second. Remember the two knots need to slide a bit back together.  Another important thing is to wet the knots just like any knot. One last thing I always watch so my wraps begin close to the where the loop starts, and  smooth as they go out towards the other end.  This way they close up smoothly without overlapping each other.   These details may help you be more successful.\

 

Here is a good video to help you out.

 

10lbs suffix elite. I purchased a reel and lined it and it was bad so tired attaching it back to the line on the factory spool just for practice and couldn't get it for nothing. Now dumb question. when tying to something what is the knot that you feed through the eye and twist about 8 times and then shoot through the bottom hole close to the hook eye and jerk tight? is that a uni knot cause it looks the same and I can do those all day on a hook but cant do 2 lines.

[RoLo]

 

Your best option is to learn how to tie a uni-knot to uni-knot (it gets easier over time).

 

Tie one uni-knot at a time, beginning with your fluorocarbon line.

Snug your fluoro uni-knot while reducing the size of the loop (3/8" is plenty).

Now the braided line is threaded thru the fluoro loop and the 2nd uni-knot is tied.

Snug up the braided uni-knot, then pull both standing lines apart until both uni-knots close down.

 

Roger

 

[HookRz]

The only time I use a swivel connection is when throwing a fluke, with a very short leader. 

[Airman4754]

16 hours ago, J Francho said:

Try a bead, swivel, leader and fluke.

 

Or just tie an albright. It's super easy and if you lubricate it when you cinch it down it won't fail.

[J Francho]

1 hour ago, Mosster47 said:

 

Or just tie an albright. It's super easy and if you lubricate it when you cinch it down it won't fail.

 

The point behind the bead and the swivel is presentation.  The fluke can be rigged a bit offset, which gives a random action, and the swivel keeps the twist at bay.  The fluke looks like it's chasing some smaller food item, and would be distracted and vulnerable.  If you've ever done some big swimbait fishing, this notion of distracted, feeding prey items works.  As far as connection knots go, an Alberto is a better knot than an Albright.  The Alberto is a overlapping weave, whereas the Albright is a twisted jam knot.  They both work really well, but the edge goes to the Alberto.  Striper fisherman have been using it for decades.

 

Also, as far as swivels go, they're appropriate in other situations outside the Carolina rig and the fluke rig.  There's another, double fluke fluke rig that employs two swivels - Donkey Rig.  A swivel on a split shot rig can free up the bait too.  I put the weight on the main line, above the swivel.

 

Small tip: start at your terminal rig when tying up.  That way you can use a strong Palomar knot on most connections.

[Team9nine]

Since we're still on this subject, it's worth noting that the thought of this setup being  a weaker link in the chain for failure since it involves 2 connections vs 1 is actually incorrect, due to the fact that both of the individual connecting knots to the swivel will each be stronger than any line-to-line connecting knot (assuming you're tying correct and proven knots). I would like to see data on the FG vs traditional though now that that knot is becoming a bit more widespread in use.

[J Francho]

8 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

I would like to see data on the FG vs traditional though now that that knot is becoming a bit more widespread in use.

 

I'd love to test this out....if I could tie one that held!  Definitely a "me" thing there.

[blckshirt98]

I used to use a double-uni to tie my braid to fluoro but even though it's just one point of failure it was oftentimes THE point of failure.  It's probably just me burning the line but I got tired of it so I started using a swivel.  I use the smallest size SPRO power swivel and have never had a swivel fail on me.  I use a palomar knot to both the braid and fluoro and I don't think I've ever had a knot fail at either point - hooks will bend/break/break-free before the connection fails.  It does have the limitation where you can't have a super long leader where the swivel will be going through the guides but to be honest I've never needed a leader that long.

[.ghoti.]

7 hours ago, J Francho said:

Small tip: start at your terminal rig when tying up.  That way you can use a strong Palomar knot on most connections.

You can use a Palomar for all three knots of a c-rig, just start by tying the leader to the swivel. Then slide the weight and bead on the main line and tie it to the swivel. You can figure out the rest.

[MickD]

I think, considering that the swivel is obviously a limiting device for line to line connections where the function of the swivel is only to avoid having to tie a good line to line knot, you should bite the bullet and practice a good knot, like double uni or surgeon's knot until you can efficiently and effectively tie one or the other.   You don't want to have to go through your fishing career limiting yourself to not being able to tie a good line to line knot.  Look at the schematic, follow it religiously, use spit to lube the knot (+ a few of the other tips given in these posts), and test it before using the rig.  In time and practice it will come.

 

The problem with the FG is not that it isn't strong enough; it has been tested and is the strongest line to line knot.  The problems with it are that it is a difficult knot to learn to tie properly, and it doesn't work as well with light leaders as it does with heavier ones (15 and above).  If it is not done correctly it can test well in the hands, but suddenly fail when fished.  The two I've mentioned above are easy to tie correctly, plenty strong, and are reliable.  Inspect them every few days and if they are getting frayed from passing through guides, cut and retie.

[ohihunter2014]

well after sending a swivel through my lined guides today on accident I said screw it and fired up the video above and it took me 30min but I tied 2 knots and they look and feel fine. it took me about 5 tries cause they kept coming out crooked making the line kink but I think I got it. now just have to see how it handles fishing. I tied one 10lbs suffix elite mono to 6lbs flouro stren 6lbs and 10lbs to 10lbs where the cat chewed 9-10ft of line in half.

 

oh and for the newbies to this watch what your doing cause when I tried pulling it tight I sent the line through my finger down into the meat.

[Smokinal]

This will help a ton!

 

http://www.animatedknots.com/knotlist.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.png&Website=www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint

 

I prefer the Blood and Albright. I use the blood on my spinning rods and albright on my casting rods with microguides as it is a very small, sleek knot.

[Nscheele]

I've had really good luck with the Alberto knot. Not too difficult to learn and seems to be pretty strong.