Best line for my new rod?

[badgerboyng]

I'm about to seal the deal on a St Croix Avid X Slop n' Frog rod (7'4, H, F). I live in Wisconsin and I'm planning on using it for 4 things: occasionally dragging football jigs, frequently pulling swim jigs (1/4 - 3/8oz) through weeds, pitching beavers, and frogging for largemouth. 

 

I'm having a hard time deciding between heavy fluorocarbon (something like 17lb Sunline sniper) and braid (maybe 30-40lb power pro). Since I fish in natural northern lakes, I'm afraid that I won't get as many hits on braid. I don't think a fluoro leader would work, either, since the rod has micro guides. Although if I'm pitching, it might be possible to have a shorter leader that doesn't enter the guides? 

 

What do you guys suggest? 

[Scott F]

Why do you feel you won't get many hits on braid? I fish in Wisconsin a lot in mostly clear water and use nothing but braid without any leaders. I don't seem to have any problems catching large and smallmouth. If you are worried about fish being line shy, that is mostly in your head. Of course if you believe fish won't hit lures with braid, you probably wouldn't stick with it long enough to convince yourself they do. Confidence plays a big role in your ability to catch fish consistently.

[badgerboyng]

1 hour ago, Scott F said:

Why do you feel you won't get many hits on braid? I fish in Wisconsin a lot in mostly clear water and use nothing but braid without any leaders. I don't seem to have any problems catching large and smallmouth.

I suppose it's because I constantly hear people saying that you need fluorocarbon... especially in clear water. I'm not sure if it's true or if it's just a marketing scheme. 

[CTBassin860]

50-65# PP or Sufix 832.Depending on how bad that slop is! Gotta cut through them weeds.

[Bruce424]

Probly braid be the best bet. You could always tie a fluoro leader.

[Mike L]

You don't want flouro for frogs.

If you are looking for a line to do all you asked then I'd recommend 30# braid. 

If you take frog fishing off the list I'd use 20# Shooter. 

 

 

 

Mike 

[the reel ess]

50 lb braid, min for frogging. If you intend to use it for pitching, and the whole visibility thing is an issue for you, you can use a short leader of fluoro. I would imagine that line visibility is not an issue in very sloppy weeds. There's always the issue of the extra knot failing. It happened to me once. I use straight braid, no leaders, on 4 rods now.

[frosty]

You can use a leader with micro guides, just a FYI. My spinning setup has micro guides and I use around a 6' leader. I've had it catch a couple times, and it makes a little noise if you get it into the guides but I haven't had enough issues to not use one. 

[RoLo]

5 hours ago, badgerboyng said:

I suppose it's because I constantly hear people saying that you need fluorocarbon... especially in clear water.

I'm not sure if it's true or if it's just a marketing scheme. 

 

I think you summed it up very well, and very honestly  

 

Roger

[the reel ess]

You can of course use a short leader. Short enough that it wouldn't have to go through the guides, especially for pitching.

[NHBull]

Beaid, with or without leader is your frie 

[badgerboyng]

 

 

@the reel ess 50 pound braid seems overkill to me, at least in WI. Is it really necessary to go beyond 30? I am definitely going to use this for frogging, so it seems like I'll need braid. 

 

 

@frosty What rod do you use? The micro guides on the Avid X are very tiny... but I'll take your word for it!

[frosty]

8 hours ago, badgerboyng said:

 What rod do you use? The micro guides on the Avid X are very tiny... but I'll take your word for it!

It's a Wright & McGill dropshot rod, 7'2" medium fast. It's a cheaper one from Walmart, but I really like it. 

[the reel ess]

10 hours ago, badgerboyng said:

 

 

@the reel ess 50 pound braid seems overkill to me, at least in WI. Is it really necessary to go beyond 30? I am definitely going to use this for frogging, so it seems like I'll need braid. 

 

I used to think the same and I did downsize from 65 to 50#. I went to 30# on my T rigs combo. But heavy braid definitely helps keep the line from digging into the spool when you're frogging. That will happen a lot if you're fishing frogs in weeds. You'll set the hook and drag in a 2 lb fish and 5 lbs of salad. Next cast, will go about 20' and stop and you'll have to pull some line off the spool because it dug in. It's not a big deal, but wastes your time needlessly. And that big braid is not hard to cast at all.

 

I used to catch fish on T rigs using the 65# braid and no leader.

[Jaderose]

Fill half your spool with cheap mono and the other half with 45 lb Power Pro and don't look back.  If you want to use a leader for something other than frogging...do.  I use Stren Fluorocast as a cheap leader.  Never had issue with it

[WIGuide]

Being that you're going to be doing some froggin' with it fluoro is out. I'd run 50 lb braid. It seems like overkill, but if you go with smaller, you're going to deal with a lot of line digging. For froggin' and pitchin' I don't think you'll need a leader. Most of the lakes have a fair amount of grass including the Madison chain which I'm assuming you'll be fishing. Green braid blends right in with all that grass and even places that don't have it, will have it close leaving a green backdrop that the braid blends in with. If you feel you need a leader with your football jigs and swim jigs, you can just tie a shorter one, even though others use longer leaders with micro-guides. 

[Poolshark]

12 hours ago, badgerboyng said:

 

 

@the reel ess 50 pound braid seems overkill to me, at least in WI. Is it really necessary to go beyond 30? I am definitely going to use this for frogging, so it seems like I'll need braid. 

 

You most certainly have a beast of a rod. The 7'4 heavy model is designed for pulling bass out of very heavy cover. It will winch them out of super thick pads no problem. That is where the 50 pound braid comes in. If a big taker runs you down in that stuff the braid will winch it out, cutting right through the pads, weeds, grass etc. 

 

To me there are two types of frog fishing and I use two different rods regularly for them. 

 

One is a standard 7 mhf avid model spooled with 40 pound braid and sometimes with a fluorocarbon leader mostly without. I use it when fishing lighter frogs in moderate cover. Or when working the edges of vegetation. That is all the rod and line you'll need for that. I also use this rod when using frogs like horny toads along weed lines or above shallow grass. 

 

The other is a 7'4 heavy powered rod (by st Croix) I use it to cast 3/8 or bigger frogs directly in and through the pads, or directly on/over grass mats. I use non other than 50 pound braid, no leader.  Almost every time I hook a bass in that stuff I either get him out of it quickly and play it to the boat once it's out or I have to wrestle with the mess around it. 50 pound or higher is all I will use in that situation. Other wise I risk loosing the bass and now it has a giant lure stuck in its mouth.  

 

Ask  yourself how and where you'll be frog fishing, and adjust your setup accordingly. 

 

 

 

[therivermonster]

For what it's worth, I run two Avid X rods and both work just fine with leaders when tied with the FG knot, but that's the only knot I use for leaders so I can't comment on any others. I also try to keep my FG knots nice a slim and make sure you trim the tag end of your mono, floro, etc very close to your half hitches so it doesn't hang in the guides. I would say the only thing to stay away from is leaders from 2 - 6 feet long. I've found with micro guides that either a very short leader (one that doesn't enter the guides), or a leader that goes all the way to the reel is best. If your leader knot is between your tip guide and your reel it is easier to hang on the cast due to having less momentum compared to being further back in the reel where it has more time to speed up when casting. When it all boils down to it, it's not going to be a problem most of the time, so I try not to overthink it. 

 

I can send some pics of the knot in the guides if you want. 

[badgerboyng]

6 hours ago, the reel ess said:

I used to think the same and I did downsize from 65 to 50#. I went to 30# on my T rigs combo. But heavy braid definitely helps keep the line from digging into the spool when you're frogging. That will happen a lot if you're fishing frogs in weeds. You'll set the hook and drag in a 2 lb fish and 5 lbs of salad. Next cast, will go about 20' and stop and you'll have to pull some line off the spool because it dug in. It's not a big deal, but wastes your time needlessly. And that big braid is not hard to cast at all.

4 hours ago, WIGuide said:

Being that you're going to be doing some froggin' with it fluoro is out. I'd run 50 lb braid. It seems like overkill, but if you go with smaller, you're going to deal with a lot of line digging. 

 

I never thought about using heavier braid to avoid line digging, but it makes sense. Thanks a lot for the tip! 

 

@therivermonster I haven't heard of that knot before. I would greatly appreciate pictures of the knot in the guides. 

 

@Poolshark I am also considering the 7' MH Fast rod... Since you have both rods, which one would you recommend for pitching? I talked to a St Croix worker the other day and he said the 7'4 froggin rod would be way more versatile. What's your opinion? 

 

So I'll definitely be getting heavy braid for frogging. Do you guys recommend using swim jigs with straight braid, or is a fluoro leader standard for swim jigs? 

[Poolshark]

21 minutes ago, badgerboyng said:

 

@therivermonster

 

@Poolshark I am also considering the 7' MH Fast rod... Since you have both rods, which one would you recommend for pitching? I talked to a St Croix worker the other day and he said the 7'4 froggin rod would be way more versatile. What's your opinion? 

 

 

It depends on the type of cover that you will fishing. How much weight is needed to get the bait where you want it. You say you fish northern, clear water...and you feel 50 pound braid seems overkill. That is the only reason I mentioned it. 

Personally in Light to moderate cover, with a 1/4 to 1/2 ounce weight needed, 40 pound braid... 1/4 to 1/2 ounce swim jig.....the 7 mhf is powerful enough. In technicality the avid is really a heavy powered rod compared to other brands. 

Pockets of thick pads, thick grass, 1/2 ounce or higher needed, .... Then I'd use the 7'4 heavy.  

As for floro leader with the swim jig.... You'll get a lot of opinions, but I use a leader in clear water and I feel like I get more bites. In dirty water it probably doesn't matter. I use a simple knot to join braid and it has never failed me once. It's easy and I feel more confident with it. 

 

 

 

 

[therivermonster]

Apologies for taking so long to get back. Here are some details of a couple of my setups regarding how the FG knot fits "micro vs standard" guides.  In the two examples that I show below, we'll look at the guides on my 7' MF Avid X casting rod next to my Dobyn's 733c with standard guides. The Dobyn's is spooled with Power Pro slick 30lb braid to Sunline Sniper 12lb FC while the Avid X is spooled with 30lb Suffix 832 with a Sunline Sniper 7lb leader. 

 

 

The tip guide on the left is the Avid with the right being the Dobyn's. You can see that the FG knot doesn't take up much room in the micro guide of the Avid. The knot travels in and out of the micro guides of this rod just fine and really isn't much larger than the diameter of the mainline or leader. 

 

 

I measured the ID of the standard tip guide on the Dobyn's, and it showed 3.39mm. I'm not sure if this is correct, but it may be close. The calipers wouldn't fit into the micro guide, so no luck there. 

 

 

Micro guides come in different diameters with some getting really tiny from what I have heard, so take all of this with a grain of salt. From my experience, if you want to run a leader on your Avid X, you shouldn't have a problem if you're tying a good FG knot and probably other joining knots. 

 

I hope this helps and happy fishing. Temps are coming up!!

[badgerboyng]

@therivermonster Thank you for your thoughtful response!