Demise of the two stroke...

[RobDar]

ThomasL said in another post....

i called yamaha today inquiring about a rumor of the demise of the 2 stroke 25

I was told the same thing by a Yamaha dealer. I was told by both a G3 dealer and a Yamaha service place that the two stroke is going away. That all new motors are required to be four strokes and new boats sold are required to have four strokes... and the two stroke will be a thing of the past. Apparently Yamaha ARE THE ONLY ONES who know about this. I looked into this...went as far as emailing the coast guard, who refererred me to some environmental commitee or another...

The actual law reads that all outboards must meet a certian emmissions standard...it does not matter if it two stroke or four stroke so long as the emmission standards are met. Motors like the E-Tec and the Opti Max that meet those standards are, and will continue to be, accepted motors...as far as the federal government is concerned...though some states have regulations proposed to allow only four strokes.

I think California only allows Four strokes right?

It bothers me that Yamaha, because they are phasing out their two strokes, think it is okay to say that ALL two strokes are phasing out...

it bothers me enough that I am not considering the G3 as a boat I would buy anymore.

[lavelanet]

I've actually been following this to but don't have any further informatiion.  I'd be very interested to see how this pans out in the 2007 Boats next year.  It would significan't effect used boat prices if this happens.   We'll see but I'd be interested if anyone else has any information on this in the future.

[RollONTwo]

If that is the case some one should tell OMC/Evinrude/E-TEC division :-) They have spent a TON of cash developing that 2 stroke. Like you said and Mercury with the Opti-Max.

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/

It will be many years before that can happen totally.

[CK14]

i got a 2 stroke 25hp electric start mercury that works really good. it's pretty quiet and doesn't give off much smoke. and i got it on my 2005 smokercraft.

[Craw]

I doubt that upper level management at Yamaha sent down any directives for their sales and service people to purposely mislead consumers about the phasing out of 2 stroke engines. Sales people in particular will tell us anything to sell THEIR product. They tend to grab bits and pieces of information about the products they sell and fill in the gaps to appear "expert" when dealing with us. You are to be commended for doing your own research into this. If everyone took it upon themselves to get more acquainted with the products or services they were about to buy then it's these types of sales people who would be phased out.

I switched over to a 4 stroke Yamaha 2 years ago and I'm very pleased. Personally I don't know of any inherent advantages of a 2 stroke but hey, people like what they like. There's no doubt about it, someone was jerking you around but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Yamaha over it. This type of thing goes on everyday with lots of different products belonging to all different companies.

[RobDar]

I am told by my marine service guy, who is also a friend, that you will find alot of dealers offering only 4 strokes...not because of a law...but because they have a slightly higher profit margin.

[RobDar]

4 stroke to 2 stroke is like anything else in life...each have their good points and each have their bad. There are things I like about both motors...

but I am a two stroke guy...

two strokes have been around for decades...it is tride and true well proven motor style. It is like the 4.0 motor Chrysler used to put in the Jeep's. They used the same engine for decades. It was a proven and durable engine that had been around for years...and then inexplicably, for the sake of progress or whatever, they phased it our for the 3.9...and started having problems from the get go. Why screw around with what it is proven? Why fix it if it aint broke?

Two strokes have been on the water since the beginning of boating and have proved their worth....I will stick with the two stroke at least until the fours have as good of a proven track record.

new is not always better...sometimes it is just new.

[RollONTwo]

Just a little link I found:

http://www.smalloutboards.com/4Stroke.htm

On 2 Stroke vs 4 Stroke engines.

[timmyswetarded]

long live the 2 stroke...and i hope it really doesnt effect the used boats prices....i'd sure be bummed :-/

[mudcatwilly]

I have an older 2 stroke and looked into it a little because I'm in California and there are some restrictions.  Out here, we tend to have pretty strict environmental laws when compared to other states.  There is the federal regulation for emmision standards, then there is California's emission standards which exceed that of the federal standards in most categories.  It's kind of a bogus law anyway because we are not required to get our boat motors smogged every two years like our cars, so really, the emission regulation can't be enforced unless a game warden or some other government type happens to see excessive smoke coming from your motor.  Even still, it's not like the game warden has an emission test kit to check it anyway.  Knowing that the law can't be practically enforced, some lakes in California have put an outright ban on 2 stroke engines.  We're talking maybe 5 to 10 lakes in all of California, which has somewhere between 500 and 1,000 lakes.  I think that the federal government has finally caught on to what California already knew.  The emission laws can't be enforced on the water so the feds have mandated that all new motors be either 4 stroke or 2 stroke with a certain emission criteria.  2 strokes are not banned anywhere except in some places where local governments have passed laws to ban them or where the lakes are privately owned.  The problem is that it has become difficult for manufacturers to make a 2 stroke that meets the federal emission criteria and sell it at a price that people are willing to pay.  

[RobDar]

thank you mudcatwilly for clarifying the California thing...good to hear from someone "in the know"

we midwestern folks are just never sure what the heck is going on over the in california...LOL!

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

All outboard manufacturers will have stopped selling 2-strokes by 2025 unless a 2-stroke carburetor can be made to comply with a 75% emission reduction.

http://www.stevensmarine.com/nmma.php

Jim

[Way2slow]

The reference you posted was correct for carburated two strokes but does not apply to all two strokes.   Carburated two strokes soon will no longer exist.  Johnson are about the only carb motors in production now and the Johnson brand will be BRP's four stroke line in the near future.  

These companies are not spending major amounts of R&D money on their DFI motors just to drop the line.  The Evinrude two stroke will be around for many years to come.  They have already gotten their emissions cleaner than most any four stroke on the market.   Don't care how you slice it or dice it, no four stroke can match the power to weight ratio of a two stroke.

Don't be surprised as the technology improves you start seeing diesel outboards in the states before many more years.  Formula One racing has already proven it works in high performance applications.