Back And Front Of The Boat Etiquette

[Zeeter]

I usually chip in for gas and a bit for general usage of the boat. I'll pull the boat out and back it down, though I will not launch or retrieve someone else's $30,000 boat. Heck, I may even buy the coffee and doughnuts. In general, I believe that is all that should be expected of the rider - other than having a general respect for his boat.

 

On the other hand, what is the etiquette for the boater? What can I ask of him? I have asked in the past that he be aware of front-ending me (sometimes they get excited and don't realize they're doing this), that he leaves me some fresh bank to fish when moving along, and that he let me know what he's using so I don't use the same thing. I've also asked that he remove the rear seat to give me more room. The first one - front ending - is probably an offense worthy of discipline by the club. Leaving me unspoiled bank is a bit of a grey area. However I have paid my entry fee and should be entitled to fish unspoiled water.

 

What if he isn't getting us into good fishing and I know where some hot spots are? If I tell him and he refuses to move, despite not being on the fish all day, is that a violation or is he just being rude?

 

I'm not suggesting all boaters are bad, or even most of them. I have had some great boaters who kept me on the fish and suggested ways to help me - even admonishing me (rightly so) for leaving my tacklebox open. A couple of times I had guys who had no idea where the fish were. They expected me to be their ****** for the day.

 

Far as I'm concerned, I split the finances including some extra for wear and tear on the boat. I help out wherever I can. I respect the boat. That is all that is required of me and I'll treat the boater like he treats me.

[BrianinMD]

Speaking as a co-angler (switching to boater this year)....they are not your guide, he does not owe you fresh water to fish. Part of being a co is figuring out your shots and adjusting to what cast you are getting. Same goes for telling him about your "hot spot" and they do not move. It is there boat it is up to them to decide where to fish, some will take input some will not. It is their choice.

 

Now back boating you is a different story, I am sure each club will handle it differently. Some pro tours have rules where the boater will be dq'ed if they are caught doing it. It can be a huge point of argument with some people, careful in who and how you are bring it up. In my 6 years as a co I only had it done to me twice.

 

 

 

 

[Glenn]

Lots of info here:

 

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/fishing_partners.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/tournament-etiquette.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/co-angler_clinic.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/back_seat_strategies.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/back_seat.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/backseat_fishing.html

 

[Zeeter]

2 hours ago, BrianinMD said:

Speaking as a co-angler (switching to boater this year)....they are not your guide, he does not owe you fresh water to fish. Part of being a co is figuring out your shots and adjusting to what cast you are getting.

 

I disagree with this. I've paid my entry fee. I've paid my club dues. I'm about to pay half the expenses for the trip. He will always be on better water than I am because he's driving. But that's where it stops for me. If he's fished out an area and then moves a few boat lengths up then I'm fishing water where he's either caught everything or spooked everything. Maybe throwing something different will help, but chances are he knows what he's doing and if there was a fish there he'd have done something about it.

 

Yet if he moves just a few couple more boat lengths up then I can get some fresh water. That's not too much to expect.

 

If this was a Pro and Amateur situation that would be one thing, but for the purposes of the local club tournament we have equal stakes. If he's putting me on used up water all day he's not getting his half of the expenses.

 

I don't expect this to happen, by the way. I expect that my boater and I will discuss strategy prior to the tournament and come to an agreement.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Zeeter
spelling

[gim]

Offering to pay for expenses, buying coffee/doughnuts will go a long ways simply as a guest in someone else's boat.  Often times its not the fuel burned by the outboard that can get expensive, but rather the fuel burned by the truck in order to haul the boat to the lake can be a lot.  I always appreciate it when people offer to help pay for those kind of expenses whether you are fishing in competition or recreationally with a friend/relative.

[WTnPuddleJumper]

In some of the clubs around my area the boater gets to fish his water for half the time, the non-boater the other half. I even think the non boater can even run the trolling motor during his turn.  Of course the non  boater is expected to pick up part of the expenses.  You might mention that type of format at your next meeting and see what happens.  I know it sucks when someone fronts the boat on you,  but the only real way to solve that problem is to buy a boat.  (which for some is easier said than done)

[RichF]

Let's not forget that there is usually a hefty, monthly payment to own that boat on top of those other expenses.  Splitting the boat fuel bill and picking up coffee and doughnuts are nice gestures, ones most boaters really appreciate, however, they really don't help all that much with the overall expense of a tournament day.  When it comes down to it, the boater doesn't owe the co-angler anything. That obviously doesn't mean he can treat him like crap, it just means...he doesn't owe him anything extra on top of providing a platform (physical and metaphorical) on which to compete.  If your club has rules that state, boater and co-angler both get a certain amount of time fishing the water they want, then the boater must abide by them, no ifs, ands, or buts.  If not, you just have to adjust.  Communication goes a long way but stating up front that you don't want to be front ended will likely offend your boater and lead to a miserable, awkward day on the water.  

 

Like @BrianinMD, I started as a co-angler and have since moved up front.  I know how tough it can be to fish from the back and fish used water.  You gotta realize though, there are definitely more places to throw to than just the bank, behind your boater.  I don't know how many times I've thrown into deeper water on the opposite side of the boat and caught really nice fish.  I've also outfished my boaters on several occasions (same exact cover) just by throwing different baits.  My point is, there are ways you can do well when you're a co-angler (fishing used water), you just have to adjust and think outside the box.

[Logan S]

I'll give you my perspective as someone that's fished tournaments as a boater for over 15 years now....

 

Chipping in for gas/expenses/ramp fees is always appreciated.  The $40 or so is really just a drop in the bucket compared to the total costs and effort put forth though.  I don't see it as a fee for service, I simply see it as a good faith gesture and I appreciate the thought.  

 

I don't mean this to be harsh, but there's not really any other way to put it...You aren't entitled to anything as a co-angler.  I fish tournaments becasue I want to fish them, not to becasue I want to guide a co-angler around the lake.  Having said that, I certainly don't go out of my way to make things any harder for the co-angler.  On the flip side, I'm not really going to go out of my way to make things super easy on the co-angler either.  I'm just going to fish my plan for the day.  I'm friendly and I'll help my co-angler where I can, describe what we're fishing, describe how I'm catching them, etc.  Sometimes the way I need to fish means the co-angler won't have the best angles or targets - That's not me 'front-ending' them, that's just the way it is.  It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen.  

 

The bottom line is that it's a two-way street.  It's not a free for all, I'll give the Co a fair chance to fish - But if he's going to sit back there and try to snipe everything out from under me, I can make it very hard for him to do that.  The way I see it is that I can give you decent shots at stuff that I either fish or miss (every boater misses stuff, be observant) - OR - I can give you absolutely nothing if you want to play hardball with me.  It will be the same for me either way, but I'd much prefer to do it the first way since it's more fun and I'm a friendly guy .  

 

I've fished with a lot of Co's over the years and I'd like to think most of them enjoyed their time in my boat and maybe even learned a thing a two.  I don't want this post to seem like boaters are doing some noble deed to be commended or that co-anglers are some kind of inconvenience...I just want it to be a little perspective from the front of the boat.  

[Zeeter]

The word entitled has been used twice here. I'm not expecting someone to be my guide on the water. At the same time, I didn't paid my dues, my entree fees, and a fair portion of the expenses to go on a cruise for a day. 

 

I know the boater will always have the advantage. I'm not asking him to put me on the best water all day; I'm expecting him to try keeping me off of the bad water all day. Stuff happens and he wants to get into an area where I'm at a disadvantage. No problem - it's his boat.

 

This stuff about not being entitled to anything because I don't have a boat and he does smells more like boater elitism than anything else. It's great that you paid all that money for the boat, but you're fishing in a tournament where you know you have a rider. If you don't want to be considerate of your rider then you should have joined a boat-only club. Fact is, I have a boat. I simply joined a club that has too many boaters and not enough riders.

 

In the clubs I've been in, if the boater put the rider on bad water all day, front ended him, and generally prevented him from catching fish in the most productive manner for the situation then it would be a violation of the club's bylaws and he could face disciplinary action even if it wasn't intentional. 

 

You do not have an obligation to tell your rider how to fish or what to fish, but if he's paid his entry fee just like you did then you do owe him a decent chance to catch fish. I never expect my boaters to go out of their way and give me spots first. That is the only entitlement that the boater is granted - he gets to fish the best water. 

 

Again, I am not talking about a Pro having an Amateur on his boat. That is far different. And certainly if the rider is a complete jerk that makes things different, too. But this is a club. We're all supposed to be friends while we compete. Someday it may be your day to be a rider because there's too many boats and not enough riders. Do you want your boater to be completely indifferent to your plight? To keep the rider in bad water or not caring if he is in a position to catch anything is just bad sportsmanship. 

[Logan S]

The boater/co-angler system is not perfect...But it is what it is.  It sounds like your group doesn't have separate divisions for boaters and co-anglers...I don't want to disparage whatever group you're with - But IMO that can really suck for the co-anglers and explains a lot about the differences in your posts versus mine.  The trend has been clubs moving to the split divisions so the co-anglers aren't competing against the boaters.  For the co-angler that means they are all on the same playing field in regards to the challenges of being in the back of the boat.  It also makes it easier for the boater and co-angler cooperate without tension since they aren't competing against each other.  Our club has been this way for the last 10 years or so and I see more and more clubs adopting this system.  It mimics the "Pro/Am" format.  If it's not a team event, this is the only fair format for the co-angler IMO.  

 

I don't think any of the posts so far have been negatively slanted toward co-anglers..But I do think it can be a little difficult for a boater to put their perspective into words on a forum without someone thinking they are selfish or 'elitist'.  

 

1 hour ago, Zeeter said:

I'm not asking him to put me on the best water all day; I'm expecting him to try keeping me off of the bad water all day. Stuff happens and he wants to get into an area where I'm at a disadvantage. No problem - it's his boat

 

You do not have an obligation to tell your rider how to fish or what to fish, but if he's paid his entry fee just like you did then you do owe him a decent chance to catch fish. I never expect my boaters to go out of their way and give me spots first. That is the only entitlement that the boater is granted - he gets to fish the best water. 

 

And certainly if the rider is a complete jerk that makes things different, too. 

These statements you made are essentially exactly what I said in my post...Although they sort of contradict some of the stuff in your first couple posts.

 

1 hour ago, Zeeter said:

The word entitled has been used twice here. I'm not expecting someone to be my guide on the water. At the same time, I didn't paid my dues, my entree fees, and a fair portion of the expenses to go on a cruise for a day. 

On 2/14/2017 at 11:49 AM, Zeeter said:

However I have paid my entry fee and should be entitled to fish unspoiled water.

This is where it came from.  This is also one of the statements that prompted the "I'm not a guide" response in my mind initially.  I don't think any of the posts so far have indicated that the co-angler is simply along for a boat ride.

 

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Not trying to argue at all...It can be a tough topic since many times each side doesn't really know what it's like to be on the other side.  

Edited February 17, 2017 by Logan S
edited for clarity

[RichF]

When it comes down to it, you just gotta suck it up and deal with it if you want to fish tournaments.  @Logan S said it best, the boater/co-angler format isn't perfect and there just isn't any way to make it so.  Some boaters will go out of their way to make sure you have good water to fish, some won't give you much of anything, and some will just fish like you're not there.  You're going to run into all those scenarios eventually.  

 

4 hours ago, Zeeter said:

If you don't want to be considerate of your rider then you should have joined a boat-only club

 

You could also find a different club.  One where you can use your own boat or one with separate boater/co-angler divisions. Nothing that has been said here from the boater perspective could be construed as inconsiderate towards a co-angler.  

[clark9312]

since you have a boat couldn't you fish by yourself as a boater? In every tourney ive fished in there are always a few guys out there by themselves. 

[clh121787]

Tournament fishermen can be a little quirky. And some clubs/ club members in my area have come off down right arrogant. At this point I have no desire to fish tournaments. I'm opposite I love being on the lake to my self. And not see others. I also love fishing with others in my boat. And usually I'm hoping they catch more and bigger fish than I do. To answer the op when I invite someone to fish I ask them to pack light and meet me on time. That's it. 

[Catt]

Exactly the reasons I don't belong to a club or fish club tournaments!

 

The last draw tournament I fished as a co-angler was the 2001 B.A.S.S. Top 150 on Toledo Bend. The first day was canceled due to fog before the cancelation was given we were sitting around talking. My Pro asked Larry Nixon " with you level of experience on this lake what area would you fish?". Larry told him with the "amateur" you have in your back seat I'd listen to him. My Pro asked me if I know the lake, told him I've been prefishing south in Housen' & was on hawgs! The next morning we run so far north I took him I didn't have an Oklahoma license! He caught one fish & front ended me the whole time! Once back to Cypress Bend launch & with an hour left I convinced him to try a small cove with traps where he limited out.

 

Rant over

 

Picture on Larry Nixon & me prefishing, he ended up 4th!

[Skeeter Dan]

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

 

[Zeeter]

14 hours ago, Logan S said:

On 2/14/2017 at 11:49 AM, Zeeter said:

However I have paid my entry fee and should be entitled to fish unspoiled water.

This is where it came from.  This is also one of the statements that prompted the "I'm not a guide" response in my mind initially.  I don't think any of the posts so far have indicated that the co-angler is simply along for a boat ride.

 

 

Yeah, I said entitled in one of my first posts. Poor choice of words on my part. Of course what I meant was that as a rider I shouldn't only be able to fish water that's already been completely fished over. I shouldn't have said entitled. And yes - I am talking about tournaments where the boater and rider each have an equal stake; no splitting of boater and rider rewards - just one pot. 

 

I didn't mean to turn this into some p#ss#ing contest. My only thoughts were that all things being equal, the boater should be cognizant of the rider whenever possible. The rider is already at a disadvantage being in the back of the boat, so let's not make it even harder on him. 

 

And it's not likely that anyone on here falls under the category of arrogant boater who couldn't care less if his rider caught anything. I'm sure we're all respectful club members who, while competitive, enjoy fishing with someone else.

[Catt]

1 hour ago, Skeeter Dan said:

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

 

 

That's what I fish, team tournaments!

 

I've never understood why 2 anglers who are supposedly friends do not understand the benefits of fishing as a "team".

 

[RichF]

1 hour ago, Zeeter said:

I didn't mean to turn this into some p#ss#ing contest.

 

That's not what has happened here.  Anglers with experience on both sides are just sharing their opinions on the subject.  There will always be a debate here.  The only thing we can do is try and be as considerate and respectful towards each other as we can.  

[TheGreatOne]

5 hours ago, Skeeter Dan said:

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

 

My club is the same way,and I love the format, I am wanting my boater to catch fish and he wants me to catch fish... We work together to bring in our five biggest bass of the day... If I draw a boater that has no knowledge of the water, me being a boater for 15 years, I will try and get us on something. But this way we are in it together, if I catch a 8 lber and she goes in the live well, my partner can say " well, we got us a biggun to bring in today!"... And I say"Yep we sure do!"... I like the format... If he catches all five and I blank or the total opposite happens, we are still splitting the pot!..??

[J._Bricker]

I've gotta say I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and viewpoints on this topic. At the end of the day it's just fishing and I believe we all want to be/get better at the various aspects of our sport.

 

In Zeeter's original post he mentioned "front-ending", which in my part of the Left Coast is referred to getting "back seated". Different venacular, but the same meaning and if it isn't intentional it's all part of "fishing". In my experience, sometimes the perception of it can be the contrasting styles and abilities between the front and back of the boat. If the person in the front of the boat is picking the bank apart, that style will definitely conflict with someone whose skill set and is set up to cover a lot of water and vise verse. Making the correct adjustments, while being aware of how and where the other person is being successful helps us all get better. 

 

Regarding club tourneys, I believe everyone involved pays their monies to fish, but the boater assumes the greater investment in time and money. Pre-fishing before a tournament is an investment, as is the boat and tow vehicle, gas, two stroke oil (a gallon of Opti), insurance, launch fees, and other incidentals are things boat owners are aware of that some co-anglers take for granted.  I personally don't think boaters and co-anglers should directly compete against one another, because this format favors the guy in the front of the boat. An unintended consequence of this is it may force a co-angler with a boat in the future to fish as a boater than remain a non-boater.

 

In the club I fish, boaters fish against boaters, non-boaters against non-boaters, and each boat is a team against the other boat's. The winning team concept is further emphasized in that team with the most weight also had to have caught the most fish (two limits) regardless if another boat had greater weight but fewer fish. 

 

I didn't mean to get long winded, but I wanted to share my thoughts. I hope everyone has a great tournament season. JB 

[Catt]

My thoughts on team tournaments

 

How compatible are y'all?

 

What are your strengths? What are his?

 

What are y'all's weaknesses?

 

How y'all game plan strengths & weaknesses will determine how successful the team will be!

 

Y'all must fish together as a team not as two individuals out fishing!

 

When done in unison both anglers can cover water quickly & throughly, which allows for a greater opportunity to establish patterns faster!

 

I have a fishing partner who has teamed fished with me for 41yrs; our fishing style is almost identical which I believe is necessary to become a successful team. We trust each others judgments on the water so when one of us is “on” that one takes control of the boat and one of us is always “on”. When both of us are “on” you just donated your entry fee!

 

It would be difficult for a finesse fisherman and a power fisherman to be a team, it would be difficult for a topwater fisherman and a crank bait fisherman to be a team ect. What tends to happen with “opposites” is that team spends too much time going from one area to another and one technique to another.

 

[gim]

As an innocent bystander and a non-tournament, non-club angler, I read this entire thread and it would appear to me that the solution may be to fish solo.  Or like someone said, fish as a team.  Sign up as a pair, not individually as "boaters" or "co-anglers."  If the club or tournament only offers the option so sign up as a boater or co-angler, don't sign up.  Again, I've never experienced either option personally, but maybe the best solution is to just avoid the problem altogether.

[BrianinMD]

fishing as a co is not an issue if you do not go in with reasonable expectations. Take it as a learning experience and you will become a far better angler. You have to learn to adjust to the conditions you have, part of that is not fresh water. And there are plenty of fish to get caught from back there. Think of different angles to cast, different presentations. I learned more in one season doing this then 30 years of fishing before. You cannot think the boater is going to lower his opportunities just to make it easier on you. They are there to fish and do the best they can not to guide you.

 

Now if you are fishing a club where they boaters and coanglers are competing against each other and you do not split time in the front then you need to find a different club.

[kroberts9]

On 2/17/2017 at 8:31 AM, Skeeter Dan said:

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

 

I'm talking to guy working out details to be his CO right now and I love what your saying. I hope the club is a 5 fish per boat bag it will make for an easier outing. 

 

my issues are in can come with some baggage, I fish a fare amount of rods and being a co-angler that can be aggravating. so I have to really cut back on that I hope we can pre-fish and work out a game plan and not just show up cold to the launch. 

 

I plan on paying half or more for the gas and depending on the fee maybe some of my boaters. it's pretty cool for someone to let you on their boat especially if they don't know you.

 

 

 

[WIGuide]

If you're having problems with how things are going, maybe you should look for a different club. The club I fish with still has boaters and non-boaters, but it's a team format. You fish for a 5 fish limit and you keep the same partner throughout the year, although there have been times we've swapped due to schedules. Keeping the limit at 5 allows anglers to fish alone if they want, or if their partner cannot make it to an event. It takes away all the issues you're experiencing because any fish caught counts for the team. There's no reason to front end you because if you haul a hog out of a piece of cover it benefits both of us. 

 

The other type of club you might want to consider joining, is one that has two separate divisions; one for the co and one for the boater. Again, this will help to alleviate some of the issues because you don't have a direct competitor in your boat.