Let's talk Cranking reel ratios

[Smelter96]

All i know is i have a Curado PG that i use for crankbaits and I havent had any issues with its speed. Great reel. To each his own, though.

[Jaderose]

Thanks guys.......I'm starting to get it.  I drive a 1968 Ford Pick up truck....3 on the tree.  In First gear, I can't do over about 10 miles an hour but I could pull down a tree if I wanted to.  In 3rd gear, it won't pull anything from a start but I can do highway speed.

[tander]

14 hours ago, Catt said:

Mark Davis, David Fritts, & Paul Elias all use 5.1:1!

 

Works for me!

 

This ^^^^. I might use a higher ratio for shallow cranks but for deep, 5:1.1.

[A-Jay]

This

 

or this ~

A-Jay

 

 

[.ghoti.]

14 hours ago, Jaderose said:

 

 

But I have to wonder if that only applies to older reels.  I have no problem ( at least I haven't so far) throwing a crank with a faster reel

 

 

 

Besides.....define "power".  That is what I always hear but it doesn't really mean anything without an explanation.  I'm actually not trying to be obnoxious.......I just want real some explanations and not hear..."more power"

 

First, a reel produces no power. You do. The reels is a transmission. It "transmits" power, supplied by you, to whatever is at the end of your line. So the most common statement made, in this context, is buy a lower ratio reel because it has more power. Nonsense.

 

you said "define power". OK, power is work over time. One horsepower = 33000 ft/lbs per minutes. Move 33000 pounds one foot, in one minute, and you have used one horsepower. 

Another way to look at it; if the force increases, the distance and time remain the same, horsepower is increased. If force and distance remain the same and speed decreases, power is reduced.

 

To make this relate to the topic at hand, consider this. When you reel in a crank bait you are supplying power to move a bait a certain distance. The force part of the equation is the resistance of the bait plus some friction. That force applied over the distance is the work. Factor in the time it takes to get it all the way back, and you get the power required.

 

if you retrieve the same bait the same distance in the same time, the required power output power from the reel is the same. Gear ratio has nothing to do with it.

 

Now, let us look at input power; the part you supply by turning your crank. Using the same bait, moving the same distance, at the same speed. When using a 4:1 ratio reel, you will turn the crank X number of times. Using an 8:1 ratio reel you will turn the crank X/2 times, half as many revolutions. Each revolution requires you to move your hand a certain distance. The force required to turn the crank will be different. The 8:1 reel will require twice the force of the 4:1 reel. The 4:1 reel will move the bait half as far as the 8:1 reel.

 

So, twice as many turns at half the force, versus half as much force at twice the turns, gives you an identical amount of work.

 

The last piece of this puzzle, is then the speed. If you move the bait at the exact same speed with both reels, the power required is identical.

 

Now, stop obsessing over it, use whatever reel you have, and go fish.

[J Francho]

I have a "comfortable cadence" I use when retrieving moving baits.  For large billed cranks, I prefer a slower reel.  I don't really like a high speed reel, even though it should be as simple as slowing down.  It's a preference I developed over time.  I'm not the only one with that preference.  So much so, reel makers keep making slow reels, and marketing them for this.

[fissure_man]

1 hour ago, .ghoti. said:

 

First, a reel produces no power. You do. The reels is a transmission. It "transmits" power, supplied by you, to whatever is at the end of your line. So the most common statement made, in this context, is buy a lower ratio reel because it has more power. Nonsense.

 

...

 

I agree 100% with all of this – the term “power” is constantly misused.

 

But there is still some validity in preferring a different gear ratio depending on lure speed/resistance, even though the power is unchanged.  Personal preference comes into play when you answer the question “would I rather crank a little more slowly and forcefully, or a little faster with less force?”  Power is the same in either case, but the ‘angler experience’ changes.  Handle length and spool size also come into play, as well as any other advantages/disadvantages of reel speed (slack take-up, ‘keeping up’ with fish).

 

I was typing a post about how the car analogies in this thread need to consider that the reel is the transmission, and the angler is the engine, but you beat me to the punch!

 

 

12 hours ago, RoLo said:

 

The low gear on a car (first gear) has more crankshaft revolutions behind each rotation of the tire,

the result of which is more power & less speed. The high gear (3rd gear) on a car has fewer rotations

per wheel rotation, so there's less power but more speed. It's just like a seesaw:

as the end representing 'speed' rises, the opposite end representing 'power' falls, and vice versa.

 

Roger

 

Replace “power” with “torque” and this is more accurate.  Power is supplied by the engine, and the gear ratios through the transmission determine how that power is delivered to the ground - wheel torque and wheel speed.  “Low gear” results in higher torque/lower speed at the wheels, and “high gear” results in lower torque/higher speed.  In either case, “power” is the output of the engine (minus losses), regardless of how it’s geared. 

 

Changing gears in a car depending on load keeps your engine running in a “happy” range of RPM and engine torque.  Operating far outside that range will result in inefficiency, excessive wear, or it simply won’t work (think of driving on the highway in first gear, or starting from a stop in high gear).

 

Stretch this idea a bit, and you have a justification for why anglers ('engines') prefer different reel speeds for different presentations ('loads’)…

[Jaderose]

1 hour ago, .ghoti. said:

 

First, a reel produces no power. You do. The reels is a transmission. It "transmits" power, supplied by you, to whatever is at the end of your line. So the most common statement made, in this context, is buy a lower ratio reel because it has more power. Nonsense.

 

you said "define power". OK, power is work over time. One horsepower = 33000 ft/lbs per minutes. Move 33000 pounds one foot, in one minute, and you have used one horsepower. 

Another way to look at it; if the force increases, the distance and time remain the same, horsepower is increased. If force and distance remain the same and speed decreases, power is reduced.

 

To make this relate to the topic at hand, consider this. When you reel in a crank bait you are supplying power to move a bait a certain distance. The force part of the equation is the resistance of the bait plus some friction. That force applied over the distance is the work. Factor in the time it takes to get it all the way back, and you get the power required.

 

if you retrieve the same bait the same distance in the same time, the required power output power from the reel is the same. Gear ratio has nothing to do with it.

 

Now, let us look at input power; the part you supply by turning your crank. Using the same bait, moving the same distance, at the same speed. When using a 4:1 ratio reel, you will turn the crank X number of times. Using an 8:1 ratio reel you will turn the crank X/2 times, half as many revolutions. Each revolution requires you to move your hand a certain distance. The force required to turn the crank will be different. The 8:1 reel will require twice the force of the 4:1 reel. The 4:1 reel will move the bait half as far as the 8:1 reel.

 

So, twice as many turns at half the force, versus half as much force at twice the turns, gives you an identical amount of work.

 

The last piece of this puzzle, is then the speed. If you move the bait at the exact same speed with both reels, the power required is identical.

 

Now, stop obsessing over it, use whatever reel you have, and go fish.

 

Excellent post.  A LOT of excellent posts.  The last line is the best part and the best advice I've heard all day.  I asked.....you guys answered.  THIS, my friends, is why I love this site so much.  I understand this now.  I'm actually a pretty smart guy...this was just eluding me.

 

 

 

[the reel ess]

At this age, I only have so many revolutions of the handle left in my wrist and shoulder. I'm slowly replacing all my reels with 7:1 or better. I don't use many deep divers as much as lipless cranks. But if I did, I'd probably just replace the handle with a larger diameter (longer lever). I can always slow the reel down, but you can only get so fast with a slow reel.

 

I'm on the Lew's bandwagon and they make several reels with longer handles or I suppose you could just put a longer hadnle on.

[Hulkster]

if you have ever tried to retrieve a large lipped crankbait (eg. 1/2oz rapala X rap shad) or large in line spinner (eg. #5 mepps) with a high ratio gear reel you get fatigue very quickly and it sucks. you are fighting it the whole time

 

I use a 5.5:1 curado for baits like this and its awesome.

 

it goes double for trying baits like this on a spinning reel.