MLF Summit Cup

[N Florida Mike]

It helps a little.But it seems like the ones that are eliminated pop up again later fishing another one.I wish there was a bracket of different events,whos fishing them,who won,lost,placed,was eliminated etc.All I see is whats happenning with that particular day and a quick showing of rankings which I dont understand either.I know a lot of its me and no one else has a problem??

I still love the show.

 

[Team9nine]

The one problem with MLF is that the events were all fished last year. So they already know who has won, who has made the Cups and how they did, along with which two anglers advanced to permanent MLF status. However, none of that can be revealed until they play through the entire season on television this year. That precludes them from posting a lot of points updates and brackets that would probably make things more clear. I think they could still do a little better though in this area regardless.

[curtis9]

I love watching.  I'm glad it's every fish and not top 5.   There's more action that way, and that's typically how I fish, so I feel I actually learn something watching how the pros approach this event 

[Oregon Native]

In a nutshell it's definitly nice to not have a show that's like every thing else.  MLF is MLF.....still like it and will watch it every week.

[1simplemann]

23 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

The original Select offer went out to a lot of guys from both circuits. Basically came down to the first 24 that signed on and ponied up the money to compete. I'm sure some didn't have the $$ while others simply didn't want to or were on the fence. I believe the original 24 then get first crack at renewing again each year.

So I wonder how much the entry fee is? You would think that guys in the top 20 of the FLW would be itching to prove what they could do agianst the Elite. As far as I can tell, only Wheeler and Rose are in there.

[RichF]

On 1/18/2017 at 10:12 AM, riverbasser said:

I find Watson hilarious on TV but probably could not fish with the guy in real life. 

Catching and weighing every scorable bass is what make MLF a good show IMO. Best 5 would cut out all the content like score tracker updates and getting guys nervous. It would also force the anglers to fish a lot deeper in the summer which would mean a lot of time going by not catching anything since they don't know the lake. I enjoy the speed and anxiety of it since I always pick a favorite who I want to win and when their struggling I get in on the anxiousness. 

 

I don't think having a largest 5 (or some form of that) would remove the effectiveness of the score tracker or limit the competitors' nervousness.  I imagine a large number of anglers would continue to do the same thing they always do because they know it's such a gamble to try and fish for bigger ones.  But, can you imagine if a guy is tossing a shakey head all day, catching 12 inchers and he sees KVD in the distance graphing off shore?  I bet he'd be pretty dang nervous. I know I would be.  He'd be telling himself "If Kevin catches 2 out there, they'll likely be heavier than my 5 dinks.  Should I switch to a big jig and try to entice a big bite, go look offshore also, or just hope he blanks?" Adding that element gives the anglers another extra tough decision to make.  On the flipside, the offshore guys would see the scoretracker lighting up frequently and even if they're small keepers being caught, they'd still be thinking..."Crap, should I just go in a try and get a limit then do this?  I don't wanna get beat by a 7 pound bag."  

 

There will always be enough excitement and fish catches for each episode as well.  Six top pros with six+ cameramen surrounding them for six hours....plenty of footage for an hour and a half show.  When it comes down to it, I would just like to see these guys fish something different from time to time and I feel the only way that will change is if the scoring method is adjusted.  

 

 

 

 

[RichF]

19 hours ago, curtis9 said:

I love watching.  I'm glad it's every fish and not top 5.   There's more action that way, and that's typically how I fish, so I feel I actually learn something watching how the pros approach this event 

 

I may be alone on this one but I don't think there's much of anything to learn from MLF.  Maybe the spoon in the dock thing but other than that... The competitors all approach it relatively the same and that approach is really no different than how most bass anglers would approach new water.  Find visible cover and go to work.  This actually isn't an issue for me because I think the intention of the show is more for entertainment purposes rather than education. 

[Team9nine]

4 hours ago, 1simplemann said:

So I wonder how much the entry fee is? You would think that guys in the top 20 of the FLW would be itching to prove what they could do agianst the Elite. As far as I can tell, only Wheeler and Rose are in there.

 

Others were offered. It's who accepts first for the most part. And while I wouldn't term it an entry fee, I can tell you it is a lower 5 figure number that each paid to compete for 1 year.

 

31 minutes ago, RichF said:

This actually isn't an issue for me because I think the intention of the show is more for entertainment purposes rather than education. 

 

The entertainment part is a big component. This is made for TV drama trying to reach a large "average Joe" audience - almost reality TV in a sense. Obviously there is a learning component also, but that is secondary IMO. And personally, I'd lose a lot of interest in the format if they went to a best 5. What they're doing seems to be working and having some influence on the industry in general. I like the change and direction.

[fishwizzard]

I don't have cable, but ponied up the $10 or whatever to watch them online.  I learn a lot from the show, but mostly when it comes to casting technique.  It is amazing how fluid some of these guys are.  

[OCdockskipper]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

 

... And while I wouldn't term it an entry fee, I can tell you it is a lower 5 figure number that each paid to compete for 1 year.

 

Would it be correct to assume that the anglers get paid based off the income the show makes from network payments?  I would think the advertising dollars are going to the network & the network pays for the rights to the episodes.

 

My first impression is that the anglers were paid not unlike other sports, i.e., they signed a contract to compete and made their money regardless of their results.  Kicking out the bottom two would be incentive for guys not to mail it in on tough days while the selects would work like a farm system to introduce new blood.  From your account, it sounds as if my impression was incorrect.

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, OCdockskipper said:

Would it be correct to assume that the anglers get paid based off the income the show makes from network payments?  I would think the advertising dollars are going to the network & the network pays for the rights to the episodes.

 

My first impression is that the anglers were paid not unlike other sports, i.e., they signed a contract to compete and made their money regardless of their results.  Kicking out the bottom two would be incentive for guys not to mail it in on tough days while the selects would work like a farm system to introduce new blood.  From your account, it sounds as if my impression was incorrect.

 

I think you pretty much have it to the degree that I'm aware of. The Selects now feed into the permanent side of MLF. The original concept before Selects was the pro anglers bought into a business model to produce a show/product, and revenue streams would come later as sponsors, advertisers and tv revenue grew. Selects were a way to expand the business, as well as a way to replace original "owner/anglers" as they left for whatever reason. I believe they now have a bump out format where the two lowest core group members get replaced by the two highest Selects after a two year points run. 

 

Select winners do get a check as I understand it, but I don't believe they pay down the standings at all. Same for Summit and Challenge Cup winners, at least if they come from the Select side (6 do for each event). I don't know exactly how the core group gets paid for investing in the business, but it is likely some form of profit sharing distributed on a regular basis.

[wdp]

On 1/18/2017 at 7:58 AM, 1simplemann said:

Easily my favorite fishing show. What I don't understand is how these new guys get to be on show at all. There are some very big names on the FLW circuit that are not on it. Scott Martin, Andy Morgan, the Richardson brothers etc. Do they not get asked? Nothing against the new guys but I would like to see how the heavy hitters in the FLW stack up against the Elite guys.

I don't think some of the pros care for the MLF format. Not to drop names (yeah, I really am ?) but I was actually joking with Ed Evers & Rick Clunn about MLF. Evers had just recently won a cup event on MLF. I was talking to Clunn & I jokingly asked Evers when was he gonna talk Clunn into start fishing some of the MLF tourneys. RC said doesn't like the format. Said he thinks it leads to too much crowding and guys fishing on top of each other.

 

He's a cool dude & def old skool, but I knew what he meant. My mind immediately went to an episode where Hackney was slaying em on a shallow bite in some flats. By end of 2nd period, half the field was fishing the same spot. At start of 3rd period I think the whole field was fishing those flats. Lol.

 

In the elite series it's kinda an unwritten code that when somebody's on the fish with a chance to win, you stay outta their way & off their spot. Although, some don't abide by this "code", I think most of them do, especially the seasoned veterans.

[1simplemann]

It's probably no doubt that some pro's don't care for the format but at the same time if you look at the line-ups, they are predominantly Elite guys with a few FLW guys sprinkled in. With the exception Wheeler,Suggs and Rose, there really aren't alot of the heavy hitters from FLW side. Canterbury, Martin, Morgan, Wendlandt, Strader, Johnstons',Kinney, Cox, Neal, Dudley, Arey, Robertson, Blaylock. These guys are all missing. If you look at the Elite guys are all some the best the Elite have to offer. A new guy comes in from the FLW side and I have to look him up to find out who he is. I would think some of those in the list I mentioned would just itching to prove what they can do against KVD, Hackney, Ehler, Lane etc.

[Team9nine]

The whole concept was formed by a couple Elite anglers, so it isn't a huge surprise that most of the initial 24 were Elite anglers. Ehrler and Stone were the two exceptions. More recently with the Selects, they reached out more to the FLW side with guys like Christie (since moved to Elites), Birge, Ashmore, Lefebre, Rose, Wheeler (now Elite), Suggs and Strader now competing. Even Watson and Defoe were regulars on the FLW side for years.

 

Keep in mind many of the others might have been offered a chance but chose not to accept for a variety of reasons.

[12poundbass]

Wasn't it Duckett and Klien who started MLF?

[Team9nine]

23 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Wasn't it Duckett and Klien who started MLF?

 

There were 14 (or 15 depending upon which story you read) guys that met and formed the initial company/organization back in 2009. That group, including KVD, Ike, Tak, E2, Ish, Skeet and Rojas, selected Duckett and Klein to be the leaders/representatives of the organization. Duckett worked the business side while Klein developed the tourney format. The actual "product" was launched a couple years later (2011).

[12poundbass]

24 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

There were 14 (or 15 depending upon which story you read) guys that met and formed the initial company/organization back in 2009. That group, including KVD, Ike, Tak, E2, Ish, Skeet and Rojas, selected Duckett and Klein to be the leaders/representatives of the organization. Duckett worked the business side while Klein developed the tourney format. The actual "product" was launched a couple years later (2011).

Interesting. I haven't read up on it too much, only knew of the two. Good to know though. I wonder how BASS felt about that? I realize these guys are still on the Elites and are paying customers and doing great things for BASS. However they've developed a great product that has changed some peoples opinions. I think they've also made BASS rethink and change their approach a bit, example their MLF version they did this summer that received some blow back from some because it was virtually the same format (J-Pow sand bagging didn't help).

[Team9nine]

Definitely having some influence in the industry, and I expect more to come. It's putting some of the anglers in more of a position of leverage with the larger tourney orgs. I'm guessing BASS took a little offense to the initial moves, but has since accepted and is playing along. The pros tried something similar many years prior with the creation of the PAA (which ultimately failed). This go around, they got everything right, and created an ownership based and profit sharing vehicle very similar to the NBA and the NFL, albeit on a much smaller scale and with limited membership. The best part is MLF is a stand alone entity, so no matter what happens at BASS or FLW, it has no effect on MLF.

[12poundbass]

19 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Definitely having some influence in the industry, and I expect more to come. It's putting some of the anglers in more of a position of leverage with the larger tourney orgs. I'm guessing BASS took a little offense to the initial moves, but has since accepted and is playing along. The pros tried something similar many years prior with the creation of the PAA (which ultimately failed). This go around, they got everything right, and created an ownership based and profit sharing vehicle very similar to the NBA and the NFL, albeit on a much smaller scale and with limited membership. The best part is MLF is a stand alone entity, so no matter what happens at BASS or FLW, it has no effect on MLF.

I totally agree they got it right! It's everything you want/need in a tourney to keep people in suspense and to keep their attention. I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do next with the MLF.

[wdp]

This is very interesting info on how it started. Pretty cool.

 

@Team9nine how did you find out all this info? Sounds like you used to tourney fish a lot so I'm wondering if you  know some of the elites involved with its incarnation. 

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, wdp said:

This is very interesting info on how it started. Pretty cool.

 

@Team9nine how did you find out all this info? Sounds like you used to tourney fish a lot so I'm wondering if you  know some of the elites involved with its incarnation. 

 

Tourney fished for 25 years, then spent the next 10 writing about various aspects of the sport as well as being a personal friend/mentor to one of the current Elite/MLF guys...

 

-T9

[12poundbass]

11 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

Tourney fished for 25 years, then spent the next 10 writing about various aspects of the sport as well as being a personal friend/mentor to one of the current Elite/MLF guys...

 

-T9

Interesting...do you mind steering me in the direction of some of your writings?

[Team9nine]

2 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

Interesting...do you mind steering me in the direction of some of your writings?

 

Just sent you a PM with some links to avoid crossing any lines in regard to self-promotion on the site...

 

-T9

[OCdockskipper]

On 1/19/2017 at 10:00 AM, RichF said:

 

I don't think having a largest 5 (or some form of that) would remove the effectiveness of the score tracker or limit the competitors' nervousness...

 

 

While I agree with the above statement, I do think that having the largest 5 would remove the effectiveness of the format itself.  Part of the MLF appeal is the different format, the choice between trying to catch many small fish versus a few larger fish.  Limiting the number of fish that are counted would tip the scales towards those who target larger fish.  The difficulty in catching larger fish is already balanced by the fact that they are worth more and you don't need to catch as many to equal a competitors total.

 

More importantly, I believe that MLF has captured how a large percentage of us fish for fun.  Outside of a 5 fish tournament format, if one is practicing catch & release, very few people would choose to spend the day catching five 3 lb fish instead of twenty 1 lb fish with one or two larger fish added in.  In a 5 fish tourney, a person may sit on a location for 8 hours looking for 5 bites.  Very few folks do that when fun fishing, instead they are constantly looking for that area or bait which is creating the most action.  By introducing a format which emulates the way most people fish for fun, they have created a product in which one can imagine they are participating in every time they are out on the water.

 

 

On 1/18/2017 at 5:01 AM, Bluebasser86 said:

...We've used certain aspects of the format  and based our little tournament series off them. It's fun in real life too.

 

Assuming you are using the "every fish counts" aspect, I assume it changed how you fish while in a tournament.  By chance, has it also increased your use of the Ned rig during tournament time?

[Bluebasser86]

3 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

 

 

 

 

Assuming you are using the "every fish counts" aspect, I assume it changed how you fish while in a tournament.  By chance, has it also increased your use of the Ned rig during tournament time?

We're actually using the weigh and immediately release, along with allowing "keepers" to be under the actual length limits. It's still a 5 bass format though.