About public domain water rights

[N Florida Mike]

Thats ridiculous that anyone could think they own the bottom of a creek or river ! 

[greentrout]

Where I come from you should always have permission from an owner of a home in the HOA that allows you to fish the property. You should not try to be cute or try to be clever and not honor their wishes to keep their lake private. Some of these homes are easily 300,000 and up. Even if not  it's their property and the fishing is good to excellent most of the time because someone in that HOA is keeping the lake in shape to make the fishing good.

 

If fishing private property is your goal because you want to fish it be prepared on some occasion to be greeted by not so friendly dogs and an owner or owners with firearms in their presence.

 

True.

[iceintheveins]

37 minutes ago, N Florida Mike said:

Thats ridiculous that anyone could think they own the bottom of a creek or river ! 

 

I know, it's crazy, but Colorado lets them, in direct violation of federal law.

[Jagg]

On 1/20/2017 at 9:13 PM, greentrout said:

Where I come from you should always have permission from an owner of a home in the HOA that allows you to fish the property. You should not try to be cute or try to be clever and not honor their wishes to keep their lake private. Some of these homes are easily 300,000 and up. Even if not  it's their property and the fishing is good to excellent most of the time because someone in that HOA is keeping the lake in shape to make the fishing good.

 

If fishing private property is your goal because you want to fish it be prepared on some occasion to be greeted by not so friendly dogs and an owner or owners with firearms in their presence.

 

True.

I am not for trespassing or breaking any laws. Fishing is supposed to be fun and relaxing. That being said, it's not just anglers looking for a fishing spot that might be trying to be "cute ...or clever" . I have had the unfortunate experience to come across a couple handfuls of landowners who think they own the creek or river that I happened to be floating and/or fishing at the time. A few have been most courteous and we made pleasant convo, exchanged names and numbers, two even invited me to fish from their property (one because he needed a fishing partner, the other to show her how I was catching bream and bass in this stretch of river). All others had mean sneers and threats at the very least. Had 1 shot fired at me that I now of and another that I didn't see the person but the "warning shot" was in my direction. Both times I called The Law and filed charges. Couldn't ID warning shot so he walked. Other guy stood trial. Got a letter from DA saying he plead down to not serve time.

 

BTW, that firearm thing goes both ways. Used to not carry at all except for a walking stick to take care of the odd dog or coyote, but I carry now. Oddly never came across the coyote (did come across snakes), but have come across vigilante landowners. Thankfully have not even thought once to draw since I've started carrying.

[Jagg]

On 1/20/2017 at 9:13 PM, greentrout said:

Where I come from you should always have permission from an owner of a home in the HOA that allows you to fish the property. You should not try to be cute or try to be clever and not honor their wishes to keep their lake private. Some of these homes are easily 300,000 and up. Even if not  it's their property and the fishing is good to excellent most of the time because someone in that HOA is keeping the lake in shape to make the fishing good.

 

If fishing private property is your goal because you want to fish it be prepared on some occasion to be greeted by not so friendly dogs and an owner or owners with firearms in their presence.

 

True.

I am not for trespassing or breaking any laws. Fishing is supposed to be fun and relaxing. That being said, it's not just anglers looking for a fishing spot that might be trying to be "cute ...or clever" . I have had the unfortunate experience to come across a couple handfuls of landowners who think they own the creek or river that I happened to be floating and/or fishing at the time. A few have been most courteous and we made pleasant convo, exchanged names and numbers, two even invited me to fish from their property (one because he needed a fishing partner, the other to show her how I was catching bream and bass in this stretch of river). All others had mean sneers and threats at the very least. Had 1 shot fired at me that I now of and another that I didn't see the person but the "warning shot" was in my direction. Both times I called The Law and filed charges. Couldn't ID warning shot so he walked. Other guy stood trial. Got a letter from DA saying he plead down to not serve time.

 

BTW, that firearm thing goes both ways. Used to not carry at all except for a walking stick to take care of the odd dog or coyote, but I carry now. Oddly never came across the coyote (did come across snakes), but have come across vigilante landowners. Thankfully have not even thought once to draw since I've started carrying.

 

Last thing, please pick up your trash. I think angler/landowner relations would be a lot better if everyone picked up there trash and left the water better than when they came. I know all of you guys make this a prime principal, but maybe there are lurkers out there who needed to see this bit.

[Brayberry]

On 1/19/2017 at 9:17 PM, flyfisher said:

Here in Virginia i do searches on our county GIS mapping websites and i can look at any body of water and determine who owns it, even if it is federal or the state.  If it is private it also has the owners information so with a little digging, yo can find he actual owner and speak with them or at least attempt to in order to gain access.  

I am lucky that I have enough public places nearby that i don't mess with private fisheries anymore as it is more of a pain than it is worth.  

Virginia GIS is flawed.  There's a local lake I'd like to fish, and have researched it through the city's own website on GIS.  It clearly shows that the land I have permission to fish is on the lake.  Actually it shows that one cove that the end of it is on the property I have permission to fish, and the boundary actually goes about 15 feet out into the water.  I asked the local game warden about this and even showed him print out of the GIS map.  He was stumped on whose property it was.  I asked if I fished it and he was called what would happen.  He just said I'd get a ticket and could go to court to try and prove ownership.   He has no clue how to find out the exact gps boundary.  It's complicated, and if the lake wasn't amazing, it wouldn't even be worth it.  Anyways just take the info on the city's website on the GIS map with a grain of salt

[flyfisher]

16 minutes ago, Brayberry said:

Virginia GIS is flawed.  There's a local lake I'd like to fish, and have researched it through the city's own website on GIS.  It clearly shows that the land I have permission to fish is on the lake.  Actually it shows that one cove that the end of it is on the property I have permission to fish, and the boundary actually goes about 15 feet out into the water.  I asked the local game warden about this and even showed him print out of the GIS map.  He was stumped on whose property it was.  I asked if I fished it and he was called what would happen.  He just said I'd get a ticket and could go to court to try and prove ownership.   He has no clue how to find out the exact gps boundary.  It's complicated, and if the lake wasn't amazing, it wouldn't even be worth it.  Anyways just take the info on the city's website on the GIS map with a grain of salt

Each county is different and handles their own mapping, it is not done at the state level.  Also even if the map shows the boundary out into the water, that doesn't mean you have the right to the entire lake.  Lake banks change over time and it is completely possible that the lake was originally owned by a single person and over time the lake banks moved which makes it look like you are on a part of the lake you can fish.  Besides all that, unless the land you have permission to fish from also is the owner of the lake or a lake owners deal etc...then you are trespassing.  It is pretty basic stuff really.

 

[TommyBass]

As some others have stated, it probably matters which state you are in.   In Indiana, you don't 'own' water, unless your property surrounds it.  Anyone who's property touches that water is allowed full surface access.  For instance, if there is a subdivision with houses surrounding the pond, and the county road touches the pond, you can fish there as long as you don't walk into someones back yard.  You can also launch a boat there, and fish anywhere on the pond you wish (dropping anchor may become a grey point lol).  Same would go for any of the home owners living around it.  The land owners own the ground underneath the water.  IF the pond were to dry up, then the owner's boundary's would become fully enforceable as they appear on a plat map. 

[jimf]

I have had quite a bit of experience with this issue fishing small streams (sidewalk to driveway width) for trout in SW Wisconsin.  Everything boils down to what a state defines as "Navigable".   If you can access a "Navigable" waterway on public land, then you are good.   Differences between states can be huge - in Wisconsin "Navigable" means that you can float a canoe on it *at some point* during the year.   Like during high stages.   So basically in Wisco, if your feet are wet you are good.  Illinois is completely different - it defines navigability as being able to act as a highway for commerce in it's natural state.   This means in Illinois some bodies of water that are easily navigable by water craft aren't legally navigable.  

 

You should be able to find your states laws online.  

[Karma]

We have a problem here with a local camp during the summer that tries to claim that their property line extends 10 feet into the Cumberland River on the Cordell Hull Reservoir.. despite being told several times by local and state officials that they do not. I didn't know it at the time but apparently they are notorious for calling the local sheriffs office and game wardens to the point where they pretty much ignore their calls.

 

They have a private dock and have built what is probably an illegal walkway bridge over the waterway with a fence under it keeping boats out. Its not that big of an area, but if the camp pushed an angler over they edge, they could probably take the camp to court over it and win.

 

It sits in the corner of the river with some nice log piles (can see in left corner of photo below), a private dock and the previously mentioned walkway bridge on stilts and is obviously for those reasons a bass magnet. I was fishing off of it last summer when a camp counselor came out and told me I was trespassing and that I needed to leave before they called the police.  They ticked me off so I just shrugged and ignored him and was catching several fish which seemed to upset him. A Sheriff's deputy arrived, walked out to the dock and said the camp had called and reported that I was trespassing and that I was armed. I told him that I had been doing nothing other than what he seen me doing at the moment, and I was a deputy in the neighboring county, I am always armed. He motioned me to the dock check my ID and asked if I had stepped on their dock or bumped it with my boat, I informed him that I had not. He asked if my lure had smacked their dock or their moored pontoon boat, again I informed him that it had not. He just said ok then, have a nice day deputy we shook hands and that was that. He told the guy that I was not trespassing, I was below the high water mark and had not damaged their property in anyway. This only angered the counselor more.

 

 

part of me says to just let it go and not fish the area any more..... but the dark side of me says fish it dusk till dawn just to irritate them further. That area is a gold mine on a tournament morning for those of us that know about it.

[N Florida Mike]

I was bream fishing with my friends teenage son at a dock down the lake in my jon boat.We had caught and kept a few.The owner of the property came out and asked me in a direct way to leave because his grandaughters fished there.I was conflicted.I had fished the lake for 40 years,and live on it.If anyone had the right to fish there I did.I had told my friends son we would only keep 10 and then leave so to not overfish it.I had not come in contact with his dock.S o I was completely within the law to fish there.

If I had been by myself there would have

been at least a serious discussion.But with David in the boat I felt that to do as asked would be the better example.I was angry to the point that I knew if I said a word it would not be in a friendly tone.I did not say a word,pulled up anchor and began leaving.He was trying to get a response by continuing to explain why I should leave.I thought to my self  if he wanted to fish at my dock It wouldnt bother me even though I had grandkids that fish there.W hat Im sure he didnt realize was that the lake was full of nice bream and keeping a few wouldnt slightly put a dent in the population.

I dont have any use for people like that.But Holding a grudge doesntt help so I let it go.

Saw him while voting and made eye contact.I gave him a nod but he ignored it and walked on.

So if you can ,let stuff go.At least youll be at peace with it.By the way,my response this time wouldnt have been my response 25 years ago!!?

[OCdockskipper]

On 1/19/2017 at 6:11 PM, NCbassraider said:

As a property owner that has a lake on it I deal with trespassers often.  The most often excuse is "you can't own a body of water".  Yes you can.  Most are referring to laws regarding rivers and streams or tidal bodies of water.  It doesn't matter if water flows into the pond somewhere.  That doesn't count.

 

The lake I live on is like that.  All of the land surrounding it is private, owned by individuals or the HOA and the lake itself is private because we pay for the water we put into it (only in Southern California ).

 

It is not unusual during the spring & summer for non-residents to sneak to the greenbelt areas and fire in a few casts.  There have been a few people ballsy enough to launch kayaks or pondboats, but with one exception, those folks do it once & never come back.  The exception is two guys in a 8 ft Pond prowler who once or twice a month launch their boat in a back cove hidden from the main lake.  They fish from dawn until about 9:30, and then leave the same way before a HOA patrol comes by (Boats must be registered with the HOA to be on the lake, so it is very easy for the patrol to see if you have a sticker on it or not).  What is comical is the two guys both are well over 200lbs and with them & their gear, that little 8 ft boat comes oh-so close to capsizing when either one moves.  Plus, I have nicknamed one of the guys "Emphysema Man" because he has one of the loudest, most persistent coughs I have ever heard.  One foggy day I knew they were on the lake and where they were even though I couldn't see them - I just heard him hacking away.

 

I have told the HOA about them, but haven't personally confronted them.  They have seen my boat docked & obviously know where I live, so I figure I'll let the authorities do their job instead of playing harda** myself.  The problem in not cracking down on them is liability.  I guarantee if either of those chubbies fall overboard & drown, their estate will be at the courthouse the next morning filing a lawsuit.  While they don't leave trash, what they do occasionally is smoke pot while on the water. They think know one knows, but that smell floats across the water for some distance.  Pot is now legal in California, but not in public & especially not on someone elses property in which you are trespassing.  Bottom line, they are being disrespectful & rude.

[Chowderhead]

5 hours ago, N Florida Mike said:

I don't have any use for people like that. But Holding a grudge doesn't help so I let it go.

 

Agreed -- Best to set the positive, correct example for your young fishing partner.

[jimf]

If a landowner is going to confront me, I'll find somewhere else to fish.   I came to this revelation after maybe the 2nd best day of trout fishing in my life.  I had ran into a local guide that morning who shared with me a gem of an unmarked stream that he said held big brown and brook trout.  He also warned me that when I got to a particular bridge, there was a chance a landowner would not be happy to see me, even though I had legal rights to the water as long as my feet were wet.  Everything was exactly how it was described - enormous hook jawed brown and brook trout, and greeting me at the bridge was a very agitated guy carrying a shotgun and accompanied by two very large and unfriendly sounding dogs.     

 

I was right legally, but he had the gun and the dogs.   So I never went back, and I decided that I'd do anything to avoid confrontations in the future when fishing.