Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water?

[WRB]

During pre spawn we have stormy cold fronts every few weeks, unless it's a drought. Don't like to fish in high winds with rain, but light wind and light rain is when I prefer to target big bass. The low light conditions are ideal for sight predators to hunt prey because they have the advantage. When the water column is warming from the low to upper 50's up to 60 degrees the big girls are feeding heavily on high protein prey like crawdads and larger size bait fish like planted rainbow trout. Being a jig, swimbait or live bait fisherman this is prime time. I will be on the water a lot the next 6 weeks.

Tom

[Catt]

@WRB yea I know ya keep sending them fronts over here!

Edited January 27, 2017 by Catt
Operator error

[Paul Roberts]

11 hours ago, Catt said:

@WRB Hannon married money & didn't have to work, made fishing a lot easier.

 

I do believe moon phase plays a roll in pre-spawn/spawn but rest of the year not so much.

 

I don't know if @Paul Roberts or @Team9nine noticed but the bulk of the ShareLunker bass were caught during that time frame.

Here's what I had:

 

I lumped full and new bc there was no significant diff between the two.

Here’s the breakdown by month showing % caught +/-3d of full and new moons: 

Oct    50% (6)

Nov   38% (8)

Dec   41% (17)

Jan    31% (45)

Feb   53% (104)

Mar  50% (199)

Apr   25%  (72)

[Team9nine]

11 hours ago, Catt said:

 

I do believe moon phase plays a roll in pre-spawn/spawn but rest of the year not so much.

 

I don't know if @Paul Roberts or @Team9nine noticed but the bulk of the ShareLunker bass were caught during that time frame.

 

That is part by design and part by our failure as anglers. The program was originally set up as Dec - Apr because all they were interested in were spawners they could use for the program. They wouldn't accept any out of season bass.  Then Mark Stevenson caught "Ethel" in November, and they changed the program start date to October. The percentage of Oct-Nov giant bass caught is tiny though compared to the other months, and even worse the rest of the year. Turns out anglers rarely catch giant bass (>13 lbs.) in Texas except during the prespawn/spawn period when they move shallow.

 

-T9

[Catt]

So Paul & -T9 do y'all think the stats support moon phases or pre-spawn/spawn?

 

-T9 after April the number of anglers on Texas lakes drop by 70%

[Paul Roberts]

Well, my stats looked at moon phases +/- 3days full and new through the spawn period. When just looking at that spawn period (Dec-Apr), 50% of the lunar month (+/- 3d of new and full) yielded 40% of the catches. Which leaves 60% caught outside those lunar periods -the other 50% of the lunar month. The best month, for the moon theorist, was Feb when 53% of ShareLunker bass were caught during full/new, leaving 47% caught outside. Not very promising, at least for full or new, or at least counting 3days either side.

 

Now there are other theories out there. I believe Bill Murphy liked the last quarter to full. Pete Maina's ideas considered quarters as well. I think Hannon liked full. And then there's moon up/moon down. I didn't look at those.

 

I have not discounted moon influence on spawning. I have some interesting observations myself over the years, and some actual data taken over 3 seasons. But when you look really closely at something biological, it becomes complicated. I feel I can say this though, that local conditions are the trump card. 

[king fisher]

11 hours ago, WRB said:

During pre spawn we have stormy cold fronts every few weeks, unless it's a drought. Don't like to fish in high winds with rain, but light wind and light rain is when I prefer to target big bass. The low light conditions are ideal for sight predators to hunt prey because they have the advantage. When the water column is warming from the low to upper 50's up to 60 degrees the big girls are feeding heavily on high protein prey like crawdads and larger size bait fish like planted rainbow trout. Being a jig, swimbait or live bait fisherman this is prime time. I will be on the water a lot the next 6 weeks.

Tom

 Thanks for the information.  All makes sense to me.  Hope you catch lots of big ones in the next 6 weeks.  I might have drive up to Mazatlan next full moon and try to catch a big one.  You reminded me by mentioning fishing with bait.  Wouldn't that be the ultimate form of matching the hatch?  Seems to work for the bait fishermen.  Should work for lure fisherman too.

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

So Paul & -T9 do y'all think the stats support moon phases or pre-spawn/spawn?

 

-T9 after April the number of anglers on Texas lakes drop by 70%

 

Nope to moon phases - and there are a few other studies that back that up. I simply think the big fish are more vulnerable to normal angling pressure at that time of year due to them having to come shallow and spawn, and some anglers are simply better at patterning that vulnerability, or at least taking advantage of it, regardless of actual moon phase.

[Catt]

Paul & -T9, my thoughts are it ain't so much about moon phase as it is about a time frame or period of time.

December full moon to January full is the start of early pre-spawn. January full moon to February full moon is pre-spawn. February full moon to March/April full moon.

One must also consider is the full moon early in the month or later in the month.

 

Then we gotta add Tom's cold fronts

[Heron]

Was reading Homer Circle recently and he favored dark colors in clear water, and light colors in dark waters. 

 

Interesting

[Paul Roberts]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Was reading Homer Circle recently and he favored dark colors in clear water, and light colors in dark waters. 

 

Interesting

Ah... back on topic. Although the similarity between astronomical events and lure color is not lost on me -both come down to belief, which for me lies somewhere between knowing and guessing.

 

I'm wondering what "colors" were available when Homer decided on that. I now think as much in terms of opaque vs translucent, as hue.

 

My "killer" worm when I was a kid was the Jelly Worm in black. I'd tremble when I tied one on. Still do, in fact.

But then I had my black worms fail miserably under bright blue skies and clear water. I then went to grape, blue, and red, which were translucent and they worked! For a time there (when my budget was slimmer) I went with "Black Grape", an attempt at a catch-all (and not a bad one) -kinda the Green Pumpkin of it's day.

 

All that said, I'm still a skeptic (you get that beaten into you as a scientist). I still choose the bait that "makes me tremble" -and that now varies with conditions. Under high vis conditions, I tremble most with slim straight-tail translucents. I still tend to gravitate toward purplish ones, even though bass have been shown, in both physiological and behavioral studies, to have a more difficult time discerning short wavelengths (blue on out) compared to long (red on in).

 

Best I can "figger" at this point.

[Catt]

30 minutes ago, Paul Roberts said:

I still tend to gravitate toward purplish ones, even though bass have been shown, in both physiological and behavioral studies, to have a more difficult time discerning short wavelengths (blue on out) compared to long (red on in).

 

Best I can "figger" at this point.

 

My all time favorite color is Cinnamon Pepper Neon Junebug Laminate... Camouflage!

 

I've caught bass from Brownsville Tx to Inverness Fl & from the Gulf Coast to mid-Ohio. It works in every moon phase, water clarity, sky conditions, & season.

 

The majority of my double digit bass come on camo!

[Choporoz]

I don't think it matters, but as someone said above, if you ask me, I'll tell you I have 'go-to colors'....lol...

 

I especially like the quotes from the pros...like Swindle in the video on p.4 of this thread: "They stupid fish.  They live in the water.  They react to their environment.  The more credit you give 'em, the more harder you make the puzzle."

 

Or, as @Logan S told us in his day with KVD thread, KVD was convinced that finding the right color on any particular day can be key...clearly that had nothing to do with pitching us all on SK products...he was trying to catch fish

 

These guys fish for a living....to put food on the table, so to speak...I don't take everything they say as gospel, and I question motives sometimes because of sponsorships...but its clear that the jury is still out....and color doesn't matter except when it does to you....no clue what it means to a bass, however....I'll sit here with a straight face and tell you that I don't think color matters...much;  but tomorrow, I might just as quickly tell you that I won't use bubble gum or methiolate...or that green pumpkin is always a good choice for worms...most always, anyway...I enjoy these threads, but until somebody catches that talking bass, I think we're going to keep guessing and the manufacturers are going to keep selling us hundreds of different colors

[Paul Roberts]

16 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

...

Or, as @Logan S told us in his day with KVD thread, KVD was convinced that finding the right color on any particular day can be key...clearly that had nothing to do with pitching us all on SK products...he was trying to catch fish

...

KVD relates this story in one of his books:

"During a tournament in MI a few years ago, the top four finishers were fishing the same weed flat that was about a quarter-mile in diameter. We were all pitching worms into the weeds and, as we later discovered, we were all using a different color that each of us believed was the secret to our success. I was throwing a black worm and it was the only color I could get bit on. Yet one angler caught his on Junebug, another was using Red Shad, and another was convinced that pumpkin was the hot color. Obviously, color didn't matter to the fish as much as it did to us."

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, Paul Roberts said:For a time there (when my budget was slimmer) I went with "Black Grape", an attempt at a catch-all (and not a bad one) -kinda the Green Pumpkin of it's day.

 

You, me, and Zaleski ? Still makes me tremble when I come across an old pack.

 

-T9

1 hour ago, Paul Roberts said:

For a time there (when my budget was slimmer) I went with "Black Grape", an attempt at a catch-all (and not a bad one) -kinda the Green Pumpkin of it's day.

 

 

[J Francho]

Rich Z. is friendly acquaintance of mine.  Met him a couple times when I was doing the NYBASS seminars.  The guy has had some health issues the past couple years, but still goes out and slays them.  Fishes for stripers all winter. 

 

Black Culprits were my go to back in the day.

[king fisher]

1 hour ago, Paul Roberts said:

KVD relates this story in one of his books:

"During a tournament in MI a few years ago, the top four finishers were fishing the same weed flat that was about a quarter-mile in diameter. We were all pitching worms into the weeds and, as we later discovered, we were all using a different color that each of us believed was the secret to our success. I was throwing a black worm and it was the only color I could get bit on. Yet one angler caught his on Junebug, another was using Red Shad, and another was convinced that pumpkin was the hot color. Obviously, color didn't matter to the fish as much as it did to us."

Would be interesting to know what colors the anglers tried.  Maybe KVD tried, blue, pink, and yellow, and only got bit on black, but would have done well, on green pumpkin  Red Shad, and June bug.  Can't rule out color 100% just because more than one worked.  Chartreuse might have drawn a complete blank for everyone.  I would agree the color preference of the anglers was more important to the angler than the bass that day.  Just wouldn't rule out color 100% 

 

 

[Logan S]

1 hour ago, Choporoz said:

Or, as @Logan S told us in his day with KVD thread, KVD was convinced that finding the right color on any particular day can be key...clearly that had nothing to do with pitching us all on SK products...he was trying to catch fish

That was eye opening to me, more so becasue a lot of it was with frogs which is low on the "color matters" list for many.  I think it's also important to note that it mattered to him on that day.  Put him on another body of water at a different time while fishing with different techniques and it may not have been as important of a factor to him.  

 

I'm in the camp that it matters when it matters...And sometimes it matters a lot, other times not so much.  

[scaleface]

There is probably always a best color , in my opinion anyhow. Its just  counter-productive to go through all of them . A person might catch 25 fish on  watermelon  but maybe black grape would have caught 30 . So we fish what we have confidence in .

[IndianaFinesse]

I'm going to go with color not mattering much, it's a heck of a lot cheaper theory to subscribe to, compared with thinking that I have to have half a dozen colors of each bait.  Really simplifies bait selection to, which is always a good thing in my mind.

The post Logan made about his day with KVD was interesting though, seeing how much he though color mattered that day, without worrying about selling product.

[fissure_man]

Very interesting discussion, especially the sharelunker stats.   Can anyone provide a link to where I can download that data set?  Is it just dates and weights?

 

6 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

Nope to moon phases - and there are a few other studies that back that up. I simply think the big fish are more vulnerable to normal angling pressure at that time of year due to them having to come shallow and spawn, and some anglers are simply better at patterning that vulnerability, or at least taking advantage of it, regardless of actual moon phase.

 

I would guess another contributing factor has to be the mass of eggs these big sows are carrying in the spring, right?  I wonder how many 12.5's are caught in the fall that would be sharelunkers a few months later.  Perhaps if sharelunker admission was based on length, not weight, the proportion of catches at other times of the year wouldn't lag quite as far behind pre-spawn/spawn.

 

Conversely, you might expect the length of the average early fall sharelunker to be greater than for the average spring sharelunker, not having the benefit of all those fully-developed eggs to add weight.

 

Fully off topic now

 

2 hours ago, Catt said:

My all time favorite color is Cinnamon Pepper Neon Junebug Laminate... Camouflage!

...

The majority of my double digit bass come on camo!

 

Can't resist. 

 

Is camo your favorite color because it catches the most DD's?  Or does camo catch the most DD's because it's your favorite color (and it's tied on most often)?

 

20 hours ago, WRB said:

...I choose to believe the 5 day full moon phase to be a high percentage time, so I spend a majority of my time trophy bass at that time, couldn't take off all month only a few days...

 

Same thing.  Do you fish around the full moon because that's when you catch the big ones?  Or do you catch the big one's around the full moon because that's when you fish?

 

*ducking behind wall*

 

I'm NOT saying that these are poor fishing strategies, or that I have any contrary proof.  Obviously your results speak for themselves.  Just adding some food for thought to the discussion  

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, scaleface said:

There is probably always a best color , in my opinion anyhow. Its just  counter-productive to go through all of them . A person might catch 25 fish on  watermelon  but maybe black grape would have caught 30 . So we fish what we have confidence in .

 

Interestingly, the truth might be exactly the opposite. I've tracked down and read every color study I could find, both on bass as well as a variety of freshwater and saltwater species. If taken as a whole, and looked at for generalities, what you find is that the most compelling conclusion is that there are a bunch of "good" colors (no one "best" color), none more effective than another (statistically speaking), but there are also always one (or a few) "bad" colors, ones that do perform significantly worse than the larger "good" group (but usually still manage to catch a few). This is the reason for my own color selection theory I mentioned/wrote about in another post.

 

1 hour ago, fissure_man said:

Very interesting discussion, especially the sharelunker stats.   Can anyone provide a link to where I can download that data set?  Is it just dates and weights?

 

 

Don't believe the data set is available for download anymore, at least not in its entirety. PM sent...

 

-T9

[king fisher]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

Interestingly, the truth might be exactly the opposite. I've tracked down and read every color study I could find, both on bass as well as a variety of freshwater and saltwater species. If taken as a whole, and looked at for generalities, what you find is that the most compelling conclusion is that there are a bunch of "good" colors (no one "best" color), none more effective than another (statistically speaking), but there are also always one (or a few) "bad" colors, ones that do perform significantly worse than the larger "good" group (but usually still manage to catch a few). This is the reason for my own color selection theory I mentioned/wrote about in another post.

 

 

Don't believe the data set is available for download anymore, at least not in its entirety. PM sent...

 

-T9

I have not ready many color studies, and can only draw on experience with other sport fish.  I do know that for rainbow trout on streams in Western Alaska, when Sockeye Salmon are spawning, color is the very important. An orange bead painted with pearl finger nail polish will catch rainbows every cast.  When you look at an orange bead, and a fresh sockey egg in the air, they look identical.  In the water the real egg gets a white look to the outside.  Finger nail polish imitates this foggy look perfectly.  Believe me a bunch of Alaska guides would not get caught borrowing their girl friends finger nail polish, if it didn't make a difference.  I have watched clients catch fish every cast with these beads, while I experimented with other colored beads and yarn flies.  Even going so far as to soak the other baits in salmon egg juice.  The orange painted bead always out fishes the other offerings 100 to 1.  Even when my clients mend incorrectly, making very bad drifts, they still catch fish, while I make perfect drag free drifts with other colors catching no fish.  I understand that rainbow trout are not bass.  I will point out that both are predatory fish, that can see color.  It is easy to experiment with trout in Alaska, because I can  eliminate most other variables, because the water is clear, I can see the fish, and catch them in large numbers, for many days in a row.  I have also had similar experiences with artic grayling, King Salmon, Silver, Salmon and Yellow fin Tuna.  I have fished and guided for many other species of fish, that I assume prefer different colors in different conditions, but I have never had the opportunity to eliminate enough variables to make a firm conclusion.  On a side note. the same trout will hit a mouse pattern drifted over them all summer, until the salmon start laying eggs.  Once the first eggs hit the water, you could drift a mouse within inches of their nose, and they wont even notice.  I have tried many times.  This is  my best example of matching the hatch.  Again I know the other species I mentioned are not bass.  I am aware that bass might be completely different.  I can only assume bass have some similarities to these other predator fish with color vision.

 

[Catt]

11 hours ago, fissure_man said:

I would guess another contributing factor has to be the mass of eggs these big sows are carrying in the spring, right?  I wonder how many 12.5's are caught in the fall that would be sharelunkers a few months later.  Perhaps if sharelunker admission was based on length, not weight, the proportion of catches at other times of the year wouldn't lag quite as far behind pre-spawn/spawn.

 

Conversely, you might expect the length of the average early fall sharelunker to be greater than for the average spring sharelunker, not having the benefit of all those fully-developed eggs to add weight.

 

Fully off topic now

 

 

Can't resist. 

 

Is camo your favorite color because it catches the most DD's?  Or does camo catch the most DD's because it's your favorite color (and it's tied on most often)?

 

First question

Genetics: not all bass are genetically capable of reaching double digits & is the reason for the 13# benchmark. You have to understand every lake in Texas is man-made with the exception of Caddo. Most of these lakes started with little or no brood stock, Texas biologist brought in bass from Florida, California, & Cuba.

 

Second question

Ya gotta start each day somewhere with something!

 

When available I start my day or night on deep offshore structure. Most anglers like pre-spawn/spawn because the bass are easy to find & are activity feeding. I prefer the dog days of summer for my big bass hunts. Of the measly 35 Double digits I've only a couple were caught during pre-spawn/spawn.

 

My starting techniques are Texas Rigged plastics & a Jig-n-Craw. 

 

Same goes for color ya gotta start somewhere & Camo is my somewhere. Even more specifically a Gene Larew 7 1/2" Salty Ringworm which are no longer made so I buy ringworms from Ann's Tackle in Jasper Tx.

 

Does it always work...nope

[Paul Roberts]

21 hours ago, Team9nine said:

You, me, and Zaleski ? Still makes me tremble when I come across an old pack.

Didya know Rich has gone to Green Pumpkin as his GoTo color? Or... GoEn ("Good Enough"). Probably as much bc Black Grape just isn't so widely available anymore, than bc it's that much better.

21 hours ago, J Francho said:

Black Culprits were my go to back in the day.

John, did/do you know John Reynolds, then with Roch Bassmasters. He showed me a worm color that really worked in dark peaty water. We were flipping/pitching the edges of the ledges on a big sink-hole pond. It was a ribbon-tail worm -Gillrakers I believe- in Black Shad. The flash created by that contrasty tail triggered those bass really well in that dark peaty water. I still carry them, although almost all my waters here in CO are pretty clear pits. So I now find myself trying to hide my worms, using translucent colors.