Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water?

[Catt]

16 minutes ago, fissure_man said:

 

Catt, that is a color selection chart, not a chart illustrating properties of light.  

 

Explanations of bass color preference are conjecture (still interesting, but we should take them with a few grains of salt).  Measurements of light underwater are not.  Measuring and understanding light underwater is a step toward piecing together what bass “see.”

 

 

Color selection charts were put together by someone using their understanding of "measuring & understanding light under water"  but the bass disagreed with it & bit Geebo's dark colors.

 

Every time we think we understand bass behaviors scientifically the bass tend to throw back in our face!

[the reel ess]

35 minutes ago, RichF said:

 

Well if every other variable was accounted for (same line, exact same reel retrieve speed, same amount of casts in the same spots, exact weather conditions, time of year, time of day, etc, etc) between you both, then you could be right in your given situation.  Sounds like you gave the other colors their fair shot.  Maybe SC bass aren't quite as color blind as their NY cousins.  

We've done this year round for a few years. In fact, my buddy tried a chartreuse last time out. He caught one dink and I caught 3 keepers on the gold, including a 3 lb. Our setups are very similar in that we both use 15# Big Game and try to reel as low as possible without pulling up weeds on every cast. I just think they're very keyed in on shiners in this spot and that's thee difference. If they want a shiner more than anything else, I see no need to offer a craw or bluegill. To be fair, red doesn't seem to work well for me anywhere around here. Brown craw colors do OK.

 

My dad and i noticed the same between real shad pattern and silver/black foil pattern Shad Raps of the same size. We got into schoolie stripers on them and he caught two to my one. That was OK because I was still catching. I probably should have experimented, but that's hard to make yourself do when they're fast and furious.

 

This, to me, would be like dropping a goldfish down to stripers feeding on shad. You might get bites, but can you expect equal results? I'd rather offer them an artificial shad imitation than another species. If there's a frenzy on, sure, they'll bite anything.

 

One area that I feel color matters the least is in topwaters where the fish see very little color. maybe it matters in gin clear water, but not most places I fish.

 

PS: This is a good discussion. 

[fissure_man]

29 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

Color selection charts were put together by someone using their understanding of "measuring & understanding light under water"  but the bass disagreed with it & bit Geebo's dark colors.

 

Every time we think we understand bass behaviors scientifically the bass tend to throw back in our face!

 

Hooray! I think we’re about to agree  

 

The cause for ‘surprise’ or ‘unexpected result’ is a misunderstanding of bass behavior, not a misunderstanding of light. 

 

Studies of light are independent of bass behavior, and though it would be awesome to develop a unifying, comprehensive understanding of bass vision, color preference (or lack of preference), and light behavior, we don’t currently possess all the pieces of that puzzle.

 

My argument is simply that the ‘light’ piece is pretty well understood, and any unifying theory should not contradict it.   

[RichF]

11 minutes ago, the reel ess said:

We've done this year round for a few years. In fact, my buddy tried a chartreuse last time out. He caught one dink and I caught 3 keepers on the gold, including a 3 lb. Our setups are very similar in that we both use 15# Big Game and try to reel as low as possible without pulling up weeds on every cast. I just think they're very keyed in on shiners in this spot and that's thee difference. If they want a shiner more than anything else, I see no need to offer a craw or bluegill. To be fair, red doesn't seem to work well for me anywhere around here. Brown craw colors do OK.

 

My dad and i noticed the same between real shad pattern and silver/black foil pattern Shad Raps of the same size. We got into schoolie stripers on them and he caught two to my one. That was OK because I was still catching. I probably should have experimented, but that's hard to make yourself do when they're fast and furious.

 

This, to me, would be like dropping a goldfish down to stripers feeding on shad. You might get bites, but can you expect equal results? I'd rather offer them an artificial shad imitation than another species. If there's a frenzy on, sure, they'll bite anything.

 

One area that I feel color matters the least is in topwaters where the fish see very little color. maybe it matters in gin clear water, but not most places I fish.

 

PS: This is a good discussion. 

 

I agree this is a good discussion.  This is the kind of stuff that makes fishing so unique and so awesome!  Everyone has so many different experiences on the water that lead them to so many different conclusions.  There is always so much to talk about.  

 

There were times in the past when I'd question whether or not color mattered.  Like I've mentioned before about jig fishing with my dad, sometimes he catches a few more, sometimes I do.  I used to think that color could have been the reason because it was the only noticeable difference.  After many years and countless outings together, I'd say we're about even in numbers and quality.  That has lead me to the conclusion that the color of our jigs, in the waters we fish, don't matter.  

 

Your experiences led you to a different conclusion and that's great.  You're having success on the water with baits/colors you've developed confidence in and that's what really matters.  I think everyone here can at least agree to one thing...we'll never be able to get a true answer to this question.  Both viewpoints are as right as they are wrong:)     

 

 

[Paul Roberts]

18 hours ago, king fisher said:

I saw a video of two guys chumming the water with three very large bags of bright red, orange crayfish.  Thousands of these bright colored crayfish were dumped in a matter of seconds.  They then took red rattle traps and caught bass on every cast.  The only similarity the rattletrap had to the crayfish was color. I would bet almost any bright orange lure would have worked during the height of the feeding frenzy.  ...

Here's an interesting story. I came into a feeding frenzy of big channel cats on wind-blown banks. They were crushing the chartreuse-pearl colored crank I was throwing. After catching several and puzzling about it, I decided to keep one for dinner. Upon inspection, that cats belly was packed with Russian Olive fruits. Piles of them were blown in concentration on wind-blown shores and the cats were stuffing themselves. My crank looked and acted nothing like them but, apparently, it was close enough. Now, cats aren't as visually oriented as bass are, but it shows what motivation can mean.

 

I've come to the idea that (educated) bass are darn difficult to fool with artificial lures. Match-the-hatch is a tall order in my experience. Lures just don't look or act like prey, except in (mostly) fleeting instances. Those instances are what we should target. To that end, conditions that mask the fake-ness of lures weigh in heavy.

 

My main "color" plan is to either make them visible or obscure them, when I think it matters. One of the early empirically derived decisions I made early on was that translucent worms outproduced opaques in high visibility conditions. Is this a solid "rule"? No, there are too many potential variables, not the least of which are angling related and tell us little about what fish are seeing and thinking about lure color.

 

[WRB]

The reason I want those of you who have In Pursuit of Giant Bass to read Bill Murphy's thoughts on finding the right color is I have a great deal of respect for him. Bill states that he suspects there is a good chance that bass can decipher colors that lie in the infrared and ultraviolet ranges. If you go into infrared there are a lot of colors our eyes cannot detect. But if you find these colors with black light , fluorcents and radiation. Colors can be created from many things that will fluoresce under normal or artificial light. Radiation from the sun can fluoresce certain colors we can't see. During Bill's dental ceramist work he made teeth that not only fluoresce under black light but under natural light as well. 

Bill suspected that the old lead pigment that fluoresce under normal light that we can't see maybe the reason some lures work better than others of the same color. This may also support why Eppinger's Daredivle lures had a problem when changing paint vendors.

Bill stated the whole subject of color perception is fascinating. Bass are truly amazing creatures and more complicated  and sensitive than we like to believe. Every time I read an article about someone who thinks thet have bass figured out, I just shake my head and snicker because the more you dig into this sport the farfter you seem to be from getting to the bottom of it all.

I wish Bill had lived to develope his theories further, fascinating man  and phenomial bass angler.

Tom

[ww2farmer]

4 minutes ago, WRB said:

. Every time I read an article about someone who thinks thet have bas figured outa, I just shake my head and snicker because the more you dig into this sport the farfter you seem to be from getting to the bottom of it all.

Tom

We finally agree on something............anyone who thinks they know it all, knows nothing.

 

I am confident that I know how to catch a bass on the waters I fish, I am also 100% certain that I am worlds away from being an "expert" on anything. When you close the book and your mind on learning anything else about this great sport you take great steps backwards.

[.ghoti.]

The bottom line is, you can catch fish on dark color baits in crystal clear water because the bass don't read the same propaganda we read.

[king fisher]

I can't think of a time that I could say with 100% certainty that color was the main factor in catching or not catching bass.  I can say that with at least 10 other sport fish species, both fresh and salt water I have had numerous times, when it was by far the biggest factor, and some situations, where it was the only significant factor. I think any predator on land or water that can see color will use that color vision to their advantage.

       If a person were to spend a day shooting orange clay pigeons, that were extremely fast and hard to hit but was told, do not shoot any tennis balls launched out of the say thrower.  After and hour of shooting orange clays they throw out an orange tennis ball the same size and at the same speed.  I would bet that 9 out of ten people will shoot the tennis ball.  If the ball had been yellow, I would bet that 9 out of 10 would not shoot.  If the clays were all different colors, I'm sure that the shooter would try and key in on the shape and flight characteristics, and color would not matter at all.  I'm also certain, that it would be more difficult to spot the shape difference, making the person delay his shot, causing the hit percentage to go down.  Translated to the fish, he fails to catch his prey more often. If the tennis balls were twice the size and bounced on the ground rather than thrown in the air, than of course color would not matter at all. ( Crayfish on the bottom as apposed to bait fish near the surface).  My point being, it is hard for a bass to catch his food.  He will use any of many methods to identify and catch his prey.  Sometimes it will be action, the next time it will be size, and yes there will be times it will be color.  If you think color doesn't matter, it's not that it doesn't matter, you just haven't come across the situation where it does yet.

[RoLo]

It seems that this discussion was looking for a place to happen, and found a happy home right here  

Before this thread dies of natural causes, I’d like to share a little story that goes back

to the mid-90s when I lived in Georgia. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything,

but it does involve color and it did actually happen, so why not throw it in the mix:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Jerry, a neighbor and good friend invited me to go crappie fishing with him on West Point Lake. He was a guide and an accomplished crappie fisherman. He forewarned me that “color” was key to crappie fishing, which can change at the drop of a hat. I brought two types of grubs along: curly-tail grubs and boot-tail grubs. After seeing the dingy water in Yellowjacket arm, I decided to only use my boot-tail grubs, which produced more tail thump than the ribbon-tail grubs.

 

We both enjoyed a steady pick of crappies that day, but did encounter a few short-lived droughts. Whenever I caught a crappie that ended a doldrum, Jerry never failed to ask: “What color you using, Rog?”. Each time I would answer “Orange”. I was his guest so I was embarrassed to admit that I only brought two colors along: chartreuse curly-tail grubs and orange boot-tail grubs. But since I retired the curly-tail grubs early that morning, “orange” was the only color I was fishing.   

 

At day’s end Jerry commented that I did really good on ‘orange’ and said that I caught more specks than he did. My take was a little different than Jerry’s. I thought we both killed the specks, thanks to his honey hole. In the final analysis, if I did catch 1 or 2 more crappies than Jerry, it was probably due to the time he lost changing lures.

Roger

[WRB]

Faster moving objects move a lot of water putting out vibrations bass detect first by feeling those vibrations via their lateral line regardless of light conditions. Slower the movement the less water is displaced and fewer vibrations, the bass still detects the moving object at closer distance and usues it's eye sight to determine what the object may be. I believe color becomes a factor when a bass can see the object clearly within it's window of vision, the closer and slower the object is moving the more color becomes a factor for the bass to determine if it's worth striking. No question in my mind bass see very differently then humans do because they live underwater.

When I mention color makes a difference this is based on not occasional observation but consistant experiences. It's common to be fishing with a partner and one or the other starts catching bass on soft plastics. If we are both using 6" Roboworms on identicle rigs for example and using 2 different colors with 1 getting bit constantly, the other not working in the same spots at the same time. You have a choice stay with what you have on, change and find a color or size that may work or change to what color is working. I always offer my partner the same worms I am using when catching bass, sometimes they have the color if not we share and both catch bass. Lots of lures and presentations color, including black and white, makes little difference, soft plastics it can make a big difference.

Tom

 

[RoLo]

5 hours ago, king fisher said:

If you think color doesn't matter, it's not that it doesn't matter, you just haven't come across the situation where it does yet.

 

In reality, the above entity is only possible for the color-sensitive angler (Am I wrong?).

I believe a better way to reach a bona-fide conclusion is not by comparing colors,

but by comparing a color-insensitive angler to an angler who hangs his hat on color.

The bottom-line is this: "Something is bound to win", BUT, how do you confirm

that it's the same 'something' that made the difference? (therein lies the $million question).

 

For example, you & I are fishing the same lure, in the same boat.

You boat 6 bass and your color is 'green'. I only boat 1 bass and my color is 'red'.

It therefore stands to reason that the color "green" outperformed the color "red".

Not so fast...I wasn't referring to lure color, I was talking about the shirts on our back.

(Something is bound to win)

 

Roger

[Jagg]

I can't speak intelligently about this subject like a lot of you guys, but I can give you my couple anecdotes that have made me look at color with more respect. 

 

Buddy and I were fishing a small lake and we were wearing them out on watermelon grubs. We ran out of the watermelon color. Tried green pumpkin, chartreuse, avocado, etc.. bites dwindled to a crawl. Out of desperation I tried a watermelon stick worm and the bite was back on. That put me on notice.

 

Same buddy and I were fishing and I was catching bass on white tubes and blue pearl grubs. My buddy was casting green pumpkin tubes. Middle of winter. Working the same water. I was out fishing him 10 to 1. He switched up colors multiple times even to our new fave watermelon but still no dice. Tied on the white and he started catching them also.

 

As was said earlier in the thread, color can sometimes make or break a trip for crappie. Crappie are not so distant cousins of black bass. Just something to think about.

[king fisher]

I'm sure the fish don't see or care what color of shirt someone is wearing.  I do know they have the ability to see color, and will use that ability to help them survive and grow.  Blind fish can survive and grow old by using other senses.  Same can be said about blind people,  both people and bass that can see, will use their sight to  full advantage.  Animals that don't have the ability to see color do very well, but animals that can see color will certainly use that sense to full advantage.  They don't just use color to find prey they want, but will also use it to not hit a certain prey or lure.  I have many times been catching bass on a certain lure and color, then after catching many fish the bite stops.  First thing I will do is switch colors.  The fish start biting again.  When switching colors doesn't work, I will switch retrieve, then lure and finally find a new place to fish.  Like I said before.   If color didn't matter, bass wouldn't be able to see color.

[Catt]

In the world of predator & prey camouflage is essential to survival... We aint talking realtree or mossy oak!

 

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from off colored water?

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from clear water?

 

Which one is darker colored?

[fissure_man]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

In the world of predator & prey camouflage is essential to survival... We aint talking realtree or mossy oak!

 

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from off colored water?

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from clear water?

 

Which one is darker colored?

 

Not related to LMB or variable water clarity, but this is a cool video and article:

 

https://www.bassmaster.com/video/why-smallmouth-dark

 

Lots of interesting work coming out of Tufts lab on bass (mainly smallmouth).  The FB page linked in the article has a bunch of neat stuff, in easily digestible format. 

[J Francho]

3 hours ago, Catt said:

In the world of predator & prey camouflage is essential to survival... We aint talking realtree or mossy oak!

 

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from off colored water?

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from clear water?

 

Which one is darker colored?

 

You can also ask whether the fish was taken deep or shallow.

[Team9nine]

As anglers, we refer to "color" because it appears to us as an obvious metric for distinction. In some of the examples given, if "color" was truly the difference, it shouldn't matter which brand, size or length of worm you throw, as long as you throw the same "colored" one as your buddy who is getting all the bites. My guess is it's rarely "color" alone that determines why a fish will bite in some instances when that at first appears to be the difference.

 

This is also partly because anything with "color" has a variety of properties or metrics which play a part in how something appears well beyond simple "color." These include things like reflectance, hue, brightness, lightness, luminance, intensity, saturation, absorption, transparency and chroma (among others). Each is a unique and measurable metric of anything with "color." To argue over the importance of "color" without taking into consideration these other components/metrics of "color" seems rather futile and a gross oversimplification of the issue to me. Likewise, trying to take your fishing to a level where those metrics are defined for all your baits seems rather ridiculous, too.

 

-T9

[Catt]

From the original post "So for the past few years I have been fishing on a super clear lake that doesn't allow gas powered engines.  It's not a very deep lake- it's mostly about 8-10 feet, but there's only one small section that 25 feet deep."

 

The coloration of bass caught in clear water will have a darker more pronounced colors than bass caught in off colored water.

 

Would it not stand to reason the bait in clear water would be darker also?

 

Title of the original thread "Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water?"

[king fisher]

54 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

As anglers, we refer to "color" because it appears to us as an obvious metric for distinction. In some of the examples given, if "color" was truly the difference, it shouldn't matter which brand, size or length of worm you throw, as long as you throw the same "colored" one as your buddy who is getting all the bites. My guess is it's rarely "color" alone that determines why a fish will bite in some instances when that at first appears to be the difference.

 

This is also partly because anything with "color" has a variety of properties or metrics which play a part in how something appears well beyond simple "color." These include things like reflectance, hue, brightness, lightness, luminance, intensity, saturation, absorption, transparency and chroma (among others). Each is a unique and measurable metric of anything with "color." To argue over the importance of "color" without taking into consideration these other components/metrics of "color" seems rather futile and a gross oversimplification of the issue to me. Likewise, trying to take your fishing to a level where those metrics are defined for all your baits seems rather ridiculous, too.

 

-T9

This form of logic is ridiculous.  It would be like saying size of the lure is only I quote an obvious metric for distinction.  As long as you have the correct size of lure it wouldn't matter if it was a crankbait, buzbait, spinner, bait, or soft plastic, fished slow or fast, therefore size must not be a  factor?  Obviously this is ridiculous, often times bass will only hit a certain size lure usually but not always the approximate size of the prey they are feeding on. Size, speed, action, color and many other characteristics are all important.  There are times when one is what the bass are using to key in on your lure over others.  Many times color is not high on the list.  There are times, when it is the most important factor.  As far as the original question of why bass would hit dark lures in clear water, I would have to guess it is because the natural prey in that water are dark colored.

[IndianaFinesse]

18 minutes ago, king fisher said:

This form of logic is ridiculous.  It would be like saying size of the lure is only I quote an obvious metric for distinction.  As long as you have the correct size of lure it wouldn't matter if it was a crankbait, buzbait, spinner, bait, or soft plastic, fished slow or fast, therefore size must not be a  factor?  Obviously this is ridiculous, often times bass will only hit a certain size lure usually but not always the approximate size of the prey they are feeding on. Size, speed, action, color and many other characteristics are all important.  There are times when one is what the bass are using to key in on your lure over others.  Many times color is not high on the list.  There are times, when it is the most important factor.  As far as the original question of why bass would hit dark lures in clear water, I would have to guess it is because the natural prey in that water are dark colored.

I think he's trying to say that there are so many different facets of "color", it is more than just the difference between say black and green pumpkin, that it is impossible to measure and test each facet of color.  Size is likely more important than color, but I think we tend to over complicate lure selection.  Bass just aren't as smart as we sometimes give them credit for.  Fishing is more trying to use something that kinda looks like the real thing, and putting it in the correct place at the correct time.  Why else would a bass eat a pink trick worm?  Nothing in nature looks like that, or many of the other lures we use.  And yet the bass still eat them.  Depth, speed, and location are the big three factors in my opinion.

[Catt]

@Geebo sorry for highjacking your thread

[Team9nine]

43 minutes ago, king fisher said:

This form of logic is ridiculous.  It would be like saying size of the lure is only I quote an obvious metric for distinction.

 

In that case, I will defer to your superior intelligence on the matter ? and ignore your misinterpretation of my point.

[king fisher]

48 minutes ago, IndianaFinesse said:

I think he's trying to say that there are so many different facets of "color", it is more than just the difference between say black and green pumpkin, that it is impossible to measure and test each facet of color.  Size is likely more important than color, but I think we tend to over complicate lure selection.  Bass just aren't as smart as we sometimes give them credit for.  Fishing is more trying to use something that kinda looks like the real thing, and putting it in the correct place at the correct time.  Why else would a bass eat a pink trick worm?  Nothing in nature looks like that, or many of the other lures we use.  And yet the bass still eat them.  Depth, speed, and location are the big three factors in my opinion.

I agree Depth speed and location are the big three factors. If you are not fishing where the fish are than you can't catch them.  My point is color is a factor and can be the biggest factor not only for catching fish, but for a fish to refuse to bite.  Catch fish every day on a bright silver lure, and eventually they wont want to hit a bright silver lure.  Yes fish do eat pink worms that don't look like anything they would eat.  they also hit buzzbaits, that don't look like anything they would eat regardless of color.  Or lures that  are a completely different size than the local prey.  I'm sure more times than not color doesn't make a big difference.  There are also many times I can catch fish on small and large baits, at many different speeds, and actions.  Just makes sense to start with something remotely representing their primary forage, including color.  As far as the different facets of color, or how a bass sees the color, or the science behind light waves in water I have no clue.  I do know that if I'm catching fish on a chartreuse bait, and I switch to a blue one stop catching fish then return to a chartreuse one and start catching fish again, I'm going to like chartreuse that day. 

[RichF]

Let's make this simple guys....bass are going to bite whatever you throw as long as what you throw is placed close to them and they're hungry and/or ticked.