Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water?

[WRB]

None of you who argu against bass having a color preference have been out fished by a partner using the exact same tackle, brand and size soft plastic as you are using. When your partner gives the hot color you start instantly catching bass. The only difference being the right color at that time. This isn't an isolated event it happens often where I fish for bass.

As Catt says color matters when it matters, otherwise it doesn't matter and I agree.

Catt also asked if we ever looked at a live blue gill under water, try looking closely at a live crawdads in clear glass jar full of water. What at first looks like a brown shell is made up of a dot matrix of several colors that our eye blinds into brown. Look at alive Canadian nightcrawlers that look brown, they also have a neon blue sheen that dissapears when dead.

Bass have big eyes for a reason, they help them to survive by seeing prey under all lighting conditions along with their other highly developed senses.

Tom

 

[fissure_man]

1 hour ago, RoLo said:

I firmly believe that once your lure has been noticed by a game fish, the importance of color falls thru the cracks.

No color is going to enhance her appetite, and no color is going to take it away.

To obtain valid confirmation that one color is superior to another color would require a team of studious,        

unbiased technicians. The individual fisherman is the last person on earth you want on that assignment  

 

The individual angler has only 'one' choice. In the midst of a scorching bite he must forget about hitting home-runs

and diligently change the color of the 'same' lure. If color is indeed a compelling factor then the fishing action

will immediately drop off. Okay, let’s pretend that the action does in fact drop off, no problem,

now we simply return to the original color and the action should be magically restored (ahem ahem).

The more times we're able to switch back-&-forth between colors and the more times we're able to

curtail and restore the fishing action with color alone, the greater the credibility of our argument. 

I’m not just whistling Dixie here, because I've conducted this exact exercise on numerous occasions.

So the next time you hear me berating the importance of color, you'll know that it wasn’t something I heard

and it wasn't something I read.

Roger

 

 

Great post.  While I agree with the assessment, I’d add that proving color preferences don’t ever exist might be just as difficult, for similar reasons.

 

When there’s a scorching bite the reliability of the experiment you described goes up, because the difference between “gettin’ em” and “not gettin’ em” is clear.  However, only being able to effectively test for color preference during a scorching bite could introduce tremendous bias.  Maybe that test only shows that color isn’t important during a scorching bite.

 

Hypothetical example:

Let’s say on a really tough day, there’s an unknown ‘magic’ color that would up your odds of a bite by 20%.  If you threw the “wrong” color all day in your chosen locations, you’d catch 5 fish.  If you spent the same day, same locations, same casts, etc, throwing the “right” color, you’d have caught 6.

 

At the end of a day like that, with all the variables involved, how could anyone hope to deduce the “right” color?  Tweaking any number of other aspects of your day (like location or presentation) could have had a much more dramatic impact on your success, even if you stuck with the “wrong” color.  Never mind that the “right” color could be a moving target, changing throughout the day, by location, or even between different fish (personal preferences ).

 

Even though it might be undetectable through the ‘experience’ of fishermen, a 20% preference is pretty significant.  If we actually had convincing proof that such a preferences existed and we could predict them, we’d be nuts not to tie on the “right” color.  Anglers go a lot further for advantages much less significant (I’m looking at you, 500 dollar reels )

[the reel ess]

Everyone on this thread who says color doesn't matter still has his favorite colors.

[RoLo]

31 minutes ago, Catt said:

But Roger that's Anecdotal Evidence

 

True Tom, it's 'anecdotal evidence' to the second-party, but 'circumstantial evidence’ to me.   

 

[fissure_man]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

 

Done did!

 

Clarify please, with actual example of a claim I've made.  What have I said that you disagree with, and why do you disagree? 

 

2 hours ago, Catt said:

That's in response to your nonbelieve of  situational specific lure color preference because it's anecdotal evidence.

 

That's not at all my 'belief'.  Where have I said that I don't think situation-specific color preference is plausible?

 

My stance is that if situation-specific lure preferences exist, they exist without contradicting the physics of light penetration in water.  That's it.  

 

I disagree with:

 

1.  Your dispute of the proven and documented behavior of light in water based on your fishing experience: "For whatever reason bass round here disagree"  (referring to a chart showing light absorption in water)

 

2.  Your insistence that light can only be measured "as seen through human eyes & interpreted by the brain."

 

2 hours ago, Catt said:

Ya even rejected this

 

(referring to Francho's color-blindness post)

 

I don't reject Francho's color blindness at all lol, read my response again. 

 

 

[Jar11591]

Do bass, with no fisherman involved, reject an actual feeding opportunity based on the color of that food? 

 

For example, will a bass reject eating a real live yellow perch due to its "perch pattern"? Obviously perch are common forage for bass, but are there situations where something like this would happen? 

 

Just something worth considering in this debate.

 

Lots of good arguements on either side going on. 

[king fisher]

As far as the original question, why bass would like dark lures in clear water I have no idea.   I am certain there are  times when color will be the difference from getting bit and going home skunked.  Any one who hasn't experienced this needs to fish more.   I do agree most of the time retrieve, size and action can be more important, but color does matter.

[RoLo]

3 hours ago, fissure_man said:

Hypothetical Example:

Let’s say on a really tough day, there’s an unknown ‘magic’ color that would up your odds of a bite by 20%.  If you threw the “wrong” color all day in your chosen locations, you’d catch 5 fish.  If you spent the same day, same locations, same casts, etc, throwing the “right” color, you’d have caught 6.

 

At the end of a day like that, with all the variables involved, how could anyone hope to deduce the “right” color?  Tweaking any number of other aspects of your day (like location or presentation) could have had a much more dramatic impact on your success, even if you stuck with the “wrong” color.  Never mind that the “right” color could be a moving target, changing throughout the day, by location, or even between different fish (personal preferences ).

 

Even though it might be undetectable through the ‘experience’ of fishermen, a 20% preference is pretty significant.  If we actually had convincing proof that such a preferences existed and we could predict them, we’d be nuts not to tie on the “right” color.  Anglers go a lot further for advantages much less significant (I’m looking at you, 500 dollar reels )

================================================================

 

I like your attack on the subject, which you’ve given more thought than the average bear.

To me at least, thinking ‘out-of-the-box’ is thinking smack in the center of the box.

 

The big problem I have however, is descriptors like 'right color' and 'wrong color',

as though their existence is a foregone conclusion (nuh-uh). On the contrary, I do not buy into that hypothesis.

In keeping with your 20% preference analogy, I'd offer the following scenario:

In the same lake on the same day, 80% of the anglers are throwing ‘Watermelon Red’ jelly worms,

while 20% are throwing 'Black Grape' jelly worms. At the end of the day,

if Black Grape  accounted for 22% of the bass harvested, it outperformed Watermelon Red.

 

Roger

[Team9nine]

Fishing is all a game of probabilities (at least, that's how I view it). On any given cast, with any given bait, you either will or won't get bit. Over the course of a day, if you can stack a few more probabilities in your favor (increase specific probability rates or percentages), you should end up with a more productive day. There are a lot of variables at play, all with their own probability. Color tends to rate fairly low on my list of probabilities. What do I mean by that?

 

In another thread I mentioned that one of the 2 primary factors in why I own/throw whatever colors I have in my box for any given bait is largely based around what is pretty much "proven" as a standard color option. So, a black and blue jig is almost a universal thing. A green pumpkin soft plastic is too, as are things like shad or crawfish colored crankbaits, a white and chartreuse spinnerbait, or a black or white buzzbait. I'm sure you can name a few others. Day in and day out, those colors get bit most everywhere in the country. As such, I tend to have one of those standard color patterns tied on when I'm fishing, and I rarely change during the course of a day.

 

But here's a logical way to think about lure color based on probabilities.  If you're not getting bit, it's probably not because of color, but it also might not hurt your chances if you changed. Things can't get worse, right, so do as you like - I likely wouldn't change myself. I'd rather change locations, baits, depth, speed, etc. before changing color to try and increase my probabilities.

 

On the other hand, if you are getting at least a few bites, changing color could go one of several ways - your bite rate might not change at all (neutral), or it could get better, but it also could get worse, and you actually might stop getting bit. In this case, which is likely the most common scenario for most while out fishing (getting a few bites now and then), I don't gamble and change my probabilities in that regard because there is a worse outcome if I'm wrong.

 

Finally, if I'm with someone throwing a similar bait (different color) and they're getting bit and I'm not, then it doesn't hurt to change to whatever color they are using because your probabilities will likely either stay the same or go up - very little downside to changing color in that case.

 

So that's my take on the matter. To stick with the OPs question; why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water? I say - Contrast. About everything swimming in the water (or tossed by anglers) throws shade/has a dark underside no matter what its actual color. Bass eyes are built to best see forward and upward. As such, black is a universal base color in my world - YMMV 

 

-T9

[WRB]

Those of you have Bill Murphy's book In Pursuit of Giant Bass can read the chapter Finding the Right Color, including page 195  Beyond the Visible.

Tom

[Catt]

10 hours ago, fissure_man said:

I disagree with:

 

1.  Your dispute of the proven and documented behavior of light in water based on your fishing experience: "For whatever reason bass round here disagree"  (referring to a chart showing light absorption in water)

 

2.  Your insistence that light can only be measured "as seen through human eyes & interpreted by the brain."

 

 

Never disagreed with the science!

 

Disagreed with your repeated insistence no eye or brain is required to understand colors

 

All the science you reference is as seen through human eyes & interpreted by a human brain!

 

Reference "deer & blaze orange"

 

We see the braze orange but to the deer blaze orange does not exist, what they actually see is unclear.

 

Yes the colors of the spectrum do not change but each individual's eyes & brain interprets them slightly different. This proven science can not be discounted either.

[scaleface]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

 

All the science you reference is as seen through human eyes & interpreted by a human brain!

 

 

 

 .The   fact is   once  light waves cease to exist   then   " They do not exist".    No ifs or buts . 

 

[fissure_man]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

All the science you reference is as seen through human eyes & interpreted by a human brain!

 

 

This is the crux of your argument, and it's fundamentally flawed.

 

If scientists were only able to study and measure light "as seen by human eyes & interpreted by a human brain," how could they study UV light, or the UV reflectivity of objects?  How could they study or learn anything about x rays, radio waves, microwaves, infrared, etc.  None of these are visible to humans, yet we understand them very well and leverage that understanding constantly in our daily lives.

 

1 hour ago, Catt said:

Yes the colors of the spectrum do not change but each individual's eyes & brain interprets them slightly different. This proven science can not be discounted either.

 

I agree fully with this, which you can see in numerous posts throughout this thread.  I brought up the deer example to illustrate the point.  In normal daylight, we're (presumably) better able to differentiate 'oranges' than deer are.  But if the red/orange/yellow light that lets us see that particular "orange" is taken away, we're not any better off than the deer, even though our eyes are different.  In other words, it doesn't matter how well an organism can 'see' a color, if there's none of that color around to be seen.   

 

 

[mllrtm79]

DEZ CAUGHT IT!!!

whoops, thought that ended internet disagreements... 

[RichF]

14 hours ago, WRB said:

None of you who argu against bass having a color preference have been out fished by a partner using the exact same tackle, brand and size soft plastic as you are using. When your partner gives the hot color you start instantly catching bass. The only difference being the right color at that time. This isn't an isolated event it happens often where I fish for bass.

As Catt says color matters when it matters, otherwise it doesn't matter and I agree.

Catt also asked if we ever looked at a live blue gill under water, try looking closely at a live crawdads in clear glass jar full of water. What at first looks like a brown shell is made up of a dot matrix of several colors that our eye blinds into brown. Look at alive Canadian nightcrawlers that look brown, they also have a neon blue sheen that dissapears when dead.

Bass have big eyes for a reason, they help them to survive by seeing prey under all lighting conditions along with their other highly developed senses.

Tom

 

 

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.  When the bass are biting, they're biting.  Maybe they're just color blind in NY:)

[mllrtm79]

Just now, RichF said:

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.

 

I've been outfished by partners with the same color of the same bait, there are too many variables involved to even speculate... Front of the boat vs back of the boat, better presentation, more accurate casts, hitting a stump an extra time from a different angle, floro vs mono, 3/8 jig with 50 strands vs 1/2 jig with 45, red hook vs black, 21" floro leader vs 17", I had my mouth twisted wrong, I was hungover, confidence. Wrong flavor Gatorade maybe? 

[scaleface]

[RichF]

1 minute ago, mllrtm79 said:

 

I've been outfished by partners with the same color of the same bait, there are too many variables involved to even speculate... Front of the boat vs back of the boat, better presentation, more accurate casts, hitting a stump an extra time from a different angle, floro vs mono, 3/8 jig with 50 strands vs 1/2 jig with 45, red hook vs black, 21" floro leader vs 17", I had my mouth twisted wrong, I was hungover, confidence. Wrong flavor Gatorade maybe? 

 

That's a big one right there for sure! HAHA!  You're absolutely right.  My father and I fish have fished so many times together and have dealt with all those same variables you mentioned with mixed results.  Sometimes he catches 20 flippin a black/blue jig on 50lb braid and I catch 17 flippin a green pumpkin jig on 20lb flouro.  Did he get more bites bc the bass wanted black/blue or bc his line was different?  I don't think so.  I bet he just happen to accidentally toss his jig in front of a few more fish.  

 

 

[Catt]

On 1/15/2017 at 0:05 PM, Geebo said:

Hi there....

 

So for the past few years I have been fishing on a super clear lake that doesn't allow gas powered engines.  It's not a very deep lake- it's mostly about 8-10 feet, but there's only one small section that 25 feet deep.  The last couple of years I switched up colors and started using junebug, PB&J and black/blue and out fished all of my friends.  It seems counter intuitive that dark colors would work so well on a clear lake regardless if it's sunny or overcast. I am hoping to gain some insights on why this is happening and any recommendations on other lures/colors to use.

 

Thank you!

 

Go back to the original post!

 

Why would Geebo use the term "counter intuitive"?

 

Probably because he read a chart like the one below which shows dark color are nor preferred in his water/sky conditions but the bass said no I like dark colors in the conditions!

 

This tell me the do not agree with the color chart!

1 hour ago, fissure_man said:

 

This is the crux of your argument, and it's fundamentally flawed.

 

If scientists were only able to study and measure light "as seen by human eyes & interpreted by a human brain," how could they study UV light, or the UV reflectivity of objects?  How could they study or learn anything about x rays, radio waves, microwaves, infrared, etc.  None of these are visible to humans, yet we understand them very well and leverage that understanding constantly in our daily lives.

 

 

Which creature did the research if not human?

[scaleface]

Catt ,  oh never mind . 

 

[the reel ess]

1 hour ago, RichF said:

 

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.  When the bass are biting, they're biting.  Maybe they're just color blind in NY:)

I have. Here's a specific example: My local reservoir has gold shiners as the main forage. A gold Rat L Trap outperforms others. I've been the guy in the boat who couldn't buy a bite on chrome, red or bluegill colors. And I've been the guy who caught more by using the gold color. My buddy and I have tried this over and over. Gold significantly outperforms other colors, and usually, it skunks other colors. The only difference seems to be that slight variations on the colors seem to work. ie: chartreuse seems to work OK in cloudy conditions, but the reds, craws and bluegills don't work. And the big gals know the difference. I've done enough testing to stop wasting my time with those other colors. Sure, this is anecdotal and local, but an empty side of the livewell is my visual evidence.

[fissure_man]

38 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

Go back to the original post!

 

Why would Geebo use the term "counter intuitive"?

 

Probably because he read a chart like the one below which shows dark color are nor preferred in his water/sky conditions but the bass said no I like dark colors in the conditions!

 

This tell me the do not agree with the color chart!

 

 

Catt, that is a color selection chart, not a chart illustrating properties of light.  The jump from “red light is preferentially absorbed by pure water” to “red lures won’t catch bass in water deeper than XX feet” is not a claim that I’ve made.  Here’s a relevant quote, and there are numerous others in the thread:

 

Explanations of bass color preference are conjecture (still interesting, but we should take them with a few grains of salt).  Measurements of light underwater are not.  Measuring and understanding light underwater is a step toward piecing together what bass “see.”

 

When you see a 400 ton jet fly overhead, do you say “Gee, that thing never read the book on gravity!"  ??

Or do you rationalize that there’s probably an explanation for what you’re witnessing that doesn’t contradict well-established scientific theories, even if you don’t know what that explanation is.

 

38 minutes ago, Catt said:

Which creature did the research if not human?

 

Humans did all the research, I'm pretty sure

 

If I did a study that concluded something like: "the mass of this rock is 40 kg"  -  would you dispute the conclusion because I'm not a rock?

 

lol

[king fisher]

Bass have eyes that can see color for a reason.  I would assume that reason would be to help the fish find, identify, and catch it's prey.  Also color might help a bass avoid a predator.  If they don't use their color vision, why are they able to see color?  It only makes sense to me, that if the fish can see color, I should try to find out what color they prefer on a given water and day.    

[RichF]

1 minute ago, the reel ess said:

I have. Here's a specific example: My local reservoir has gold shiners as the main forage. A gold Rat L Trap outperforms others. I've been the guy in the boat who couldn't buy a bite on chrome, red or bluegill colors. And I've been the guy who caught more by using the gold color. My buddy and I have tried this over and over. Gold significantly outperforms other colors, and usually, it skunks other colors. The only difference seems to be that slight variations on the colors seem to work. ie: chartreuse seems to work OK in cloudy conditions, but the reds, craws and bluegills don't work. And the big gals know the difference. I've done enough testing to stop wasting my time with those other colors.

 

Well if every other variable was accounted for (same line, exact same reel retrieve speed, same amount of casts in the same spots, exact weather conditions, time of year, time of day, etc, etc) between you both, then you could be right in your given situation.  Sounds like you gave the other colors their fair shot.  Maybe SC bass aren't quite as color blind as their NY cousins.  

[WRB]

1 hour ago, RichF said:

 

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.  When the bass are biting, they're biting.  Maybe they're just color blind in NY:)

Big difference in aggressive behavior between Florida strain LMB and northern strain LMB and smallmouth bass.

Tom