ska4fun Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 7:27 PM, dodgeguy said: Today's reels are built far better. Tell that to Shimano... Quote
Super User roadwarrior Posted January 12, 2023 Super User Posted January 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, ska4fun said: Tell that to Shimano... Your experience with Shimano is not the norm. Their line of reels is prized by most owners. 2 1 Quote
Super User dodgeguy Posted January 12, 2023 Super User Posted January 12, 2023 19 minutes ago, roadwarrior said: Your experience with Shimano is not the norm. Their line of reels is prized by most owners. I've very rarely heard guys complain about how long the Diawa or Shimano stuff lasts or the quality. Most of them say the quality is fantastic. I'm not a Daiwa or Shimano guy but I know they are quality. The machining and designs are far superior to years ago for all manufacturers. Quote
ska4fun Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 20 minutes ago, roadwarrior said: Your experience with Shimano is not the norm. Their line of reels is prized by most owners. Mine and from several users who dealt with defective newer reels, like the Metanium 2016-2019 series, Curado K... Argue with someone who saw the use of cheap AR clutch in the Stella series is pointless... 2 minutes ago, dodgeguy said: I've very rarely heard guys complain about how long the Diawa or Shimano stuff lasts or the quality. Most of them say the quality is fantastic. I'm not a Daiwa or Shimano guy but I know they are quality. The machining and designs are far superior to years ago for all manufacturers.  And yet Shimano, unlike Daiwa, Doyo, Banax and several chinese brands, was unable to develop a reliable duralumin alloy. Quote
Super User dodgeguy Posted January 13, 2023 Super User Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, ska4fun said: Mine and from several users who dealt with defective newer reels, like the Metanium 2016-2019 series, Curado K... Argue with someone who saw the use of cheap AR clutch in the Stella series is pointless...  And yet Shimano, unlike Daiwa, Doyo, Banax and several chinese brands, was unable to develop a reliable duralumin alloy. Learn something new every day Quote
garroyo130 Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, dodgeguy said: The machining and designs are far superior to years ago for all manufacturers.  ^ I agree but also believe that in all but the top tier reels materials are worse and designs have skewed more towards cost cutting than performance.  An example would be Daiwa's $100 line up going to linear mag brakes instead of Magforce Quote
Super User FishTank Posted January 13, 2023 Super User Posted January 13, 2023 18 hours ago, ska4fun said: Mine and from several users who dealt with defective newer reels, like the Metanium 2016-2019 series, Curado K... Argue with someone who saw the use of cheap AR clutch in the Stella series is pointless...  And yet Shimano, unlike Daiwa, Doyo, Banax and several chinese brands, was unable to develop a reliable duralumin alloy.  I have two K's and several guys I fish with have them and no issues. I would agree that Daiwa's Aluminum main gear is better than Shimano's version. Doyo I would say is a draw but no way on Banax reels.  As far as reels with the grinding issue that people pointed to with 2016-2019 Metanium, it wasn't the main gear or the pinion on any of the ones I worked on.  It was bearing BNT3927.  I swamped a few gear sets of my own before figuring this one out. The problem would resurface later after some use on the reels but it would feel different because of the new gear set. As far as I can tell, the bearings were dry from the factory in most reels but not all. After some heavy use, the reels would start to grind, especially if the reel had the drag smashed down.  So basically if you oiled those bearings, this was a non issue but the average guy did not.  I saved one from the last Metanium I worked on.   2 Quote
PourMyOwn Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 I'm mostly a Daiwa guy. I have at least 15 TD series reels, including a couple of beauties I bought off of Tom.  That said I just can't bring myself to get rid of my old green Curado. It's only worth a tank of gas in my truck money wise, but it's easy to work on and reliable.  It's all I can do not to recommend them where time a <$100 reel discussion breaks out. Quote
T2DM Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 9 hours ago, FishTank said:  I have two K's and several guys I fish with have them and no issues. I would agree that Daiwa's Aluminum main gear is better than Shimano's version. Doyo I would say is a draw but no way on Banax reels.  As far as reels with the grinding issue that people pointed to with 2016-2019 Metanium, it wasn't the main gear or the pinion on any of them I worked on.  It was bearing BNT3927.  I swamped a few gear sets of my own before figuring this one out. The problem would resurface later after some use on the reels but it would feel different because of the new gear set. As far as I can tell, the bearings were dry from the factory in most reels but not all. After some heavy use, the reels would start to grind, especially if the reel had the drag smashed down.  So basically if you oiled those bearings, this was a non issue but the average guy did not.  I saved one from the last Metanium I worked on.   I know exactly what you mean since I've dealt with this myself, I usually swap where they're originally installed if my reel comes with two of them (BNT3927), Usually Shimano reels that are equipped with MM gears comes with 2 of those ball bearings and usually that works for me.  I think those bearings get a little "raspy" when water gets in them.  1 Quote
ska4fun Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 18 hours ago, FishTank said:  I have two K's and several guys I fish with have them and no issues. I would agree that Daiwa's Aluminum main gear is better than Shimano's version. Doyo I would say is a draw but no way on Banax reels.  As far as reels with the grinding issue that people pointed to with 2016-2019 Metanium, it wasn't the main gear or the pinion on any of the ones I worked on.  It was bearing BNT3927.  I swamped a few gear sets of my own before figuring this one out. The problem would resurface later after some use on the reels but it would feel different because of the new gear set. As far as I can tell, the bearings were dry from the factory in most reels but not all. After some heavy use, the reels would start to grind, especially if the reel had the drag smashed down.  So basically if you oiled those bearings, this was a non issue but the average guy did not.  I saved one from the last Metanium I worked on.   I never saw chronic defective duralumin main gears in doyo reels, even more so, when focusing on high speed reels. Neither Banax and it's OEM clients. Shimano duralumin alloy was a pathetic piece of work. And it showed uttermost quality decreasing, without any real testing before reaching market. Nor quality, so no quality control at all. 22 hours ago, garroyo130 said:  ^ I agree but also believe that in all but the top tier reels materials are worse and designs have skewed more towards cost cutting than performance.  An example would be Daiwa's $100 line up going to linear mag brakes instead of Magforce Daiwa is putting its brand on very cheap reels, made by chinese OEM brands. The recente ''Daiwa'' PR100 is made by the chinese brand who owns Ryobi fishing brand. Very cheap reel. Same as the ''Daiwa'' Firewolf.  The ''Daiwas'' made by Doyo, had decent build quality, the CX series. Quote
ska4fun Posted January 14, 2023 Posted January 14, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 1:46 AM, FishTank said:  I have two K's and several guys I fish with have them and no issues. I would agree that Daiwa's Aluminum main gear is better than Shimano's version. Doyo I would say is a draw but no way on Banax reels.  As far as reels with the grinding issue that people pointed to with 2016-2019 Metanium, it wasn't the main gear or the pinion on any of the ones I worked on.  It was bearing BNT3927.  I swamped a few gear sets of my own before figuring this one out. The problem would resurface later after some use on the reels but it would feel different because of the new gear set. As far as I can tell, the bearings were dry from the factory in most reels but not all. After some heavy use, the reels would start to grind, especially if the reel had the drag smashed down.  So basically if you oiled those bearings, this was a non issue but the average guy did not.  I saved one from the last Metanium I worked on.   That's strange. All reels with the infamous buzz were the ones with duralumin gearing. Was it only used on these reels and not in the brass gearing ones? A friend of mine made electron microscope photos of a Metanium DC 2016-2019 main gear and the state of the teeth was terrible. Probably excessive copper in the alloy, in a manner affecting tensile strength. Quote
Super User dodgeguy Posted January 14, 2023 Super User Posted January 14, 2023 So the next time someone busts on Lew's I can laugh knowing what you guys are saying ? Quote
Tatulatard Posted January 14, 2023 Posted January 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, dodgeguy said: So the next time someone busts on Lew's I can laugh knowing what you guys are saying ? Why are you obsessed about Lews reels? It's not even the old could ones either. Weird. You show up in every thread, say things that are factually incorrect, make some sort of reference to Lews reels and leave. 2 Quote
garroyo130 Posted January 14, 2023 Posted January 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tatulatard said: Why are you obsessed about Lews reels? It's not even the old could ones either. Weird. You show up in every thread, say things that are factually incorrect, make some sort of reference to Lews reels and leave.  Its the closet to US made reel? well not really but they slap stuff on there like american hero on there ... 1 Quote
Super User Jrob78 Posted January 14, 2023 Super User Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, garroyo130 said:  Its the closet to US made reel? well not really but they slap stuff on there like american hero on there ... It's definitely got US heritage from 30 years ago but it's far from being US made. Doyo in South Korea makes a ton of reel for different brands, including Lews, Abu Garcia, some of the BPS reels, Pflueger, the lowest end Daiwa reels and many others I'm sure.  The thing that irritated me the most about it was when I found out you could swap internal parts from a BPS Pro Qualifier and Lews or Revo. They are all quality reels, no doubt, but I prefer Daiwa and Shimano and original designs.  In @dodgeguy's case, and with all due respect, his constant pushing of Lew's reels and showing up in random threads about a new Shimano, saying get a Lew's, probably does more harm than good for the perception of the brand on this forum. 2 Quote
ska4fun Posted January 14, 2023 Posted January 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Jrob78 said: It's definitely got US heritage from 30 years ago but it's far from being US made. Doyo in South Korea makes a ton of reel for different brands, including Lews, Abu Garcia, some of the BPS reels, Pflueger, the lowest end Daiwa reels and many others I'm sure. Â The thing that irritated me the most about it was when I found out you could swap internal parts from a BPS Pro Qualifier and Lews or Revo. They are all quality reels, no doubt, but I prefer Daiwa and Shimano and original designs. Â In @dodgeguy's case, and with all due respect, his constant pushing of Lew's reels and showing up in random threads about a new Shimano, saying get a Lew's, probably does more harm than good for the perception of the brand on this forum. Actually Daiwa ''Doyos'' are good value for money reels. But the ones like the Pr100, are uttermost crap. Quote
Super User Jrob78 Posted January 14, 2023 Super User Posted January 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, ska4fun said: Actually Daiwa ''Doyos'' are good value for money reels. But the ones like the Pr100, are uttermost crap. Yeah I wan't to be clear, Doyo makes good reels, just not my personal taste. Quote
Super User FishTank Posted January 15, 2023 Super User Posted January 15, 2023 20 hours ago, ska4fun said: That's strange. All reels with the infamous buzz were the ones with duralumin gearing. Was it only used on these reels and not in the brass gearing ones? A friend of mine made electron microscope photos of a Metanium DC 2016-2019 main gear and the state of the teeth was terrible. Probably excessive copper in the alloy, in a manner affecting tensile strength.  So just for examples and yes, I was expecting the above response but it took me a few to go through the reels I have to work on and decide which ones to show.....  Can you tell which is which?...... One of these gear sets is bad and will be replaced, one just grinds a little, one is obviously brass, one aluminum set is from 2007. One is from Shimano, one is from Banax, one is from Doyo and to get you started the brass one was used in saltwater and is from Shimano. It is still perfectly good. Also, one is from a reel that came from Texas and was regularly fished at Lake Fork.       Quote
FrnkNsteen Posted January 15, 2023 Posted January 15, 2023 Ok,... I'll play! ? Obviously it is near impossible to guess from looking at one image, but here goes..... Â Pinion teeth on second image look sharper and cupped, so I will guess it is the bad one that is geary and being replaced, followed by the first image starting to show wear and be geary. Â Third image is the brass gear I assume is a micro gear from Shimano, which leaves the last one being the older aluminum gear from 2007 Quote
Super User J Francho Posted January 15, 2023 Super User Posted January 15, 2023 Put me down for #2 as well. Looks like a Shimano. Quote
Motoboss Posted January 16, 2023 Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/12/2023 at 5:01 PM, NorthernBasser said: Here's some closer pics of the 3. The last one has a little more rash than the others. Willing to trade for 2 cartons of eggs.        I’ll take ‘em. Where do I send the eggs?  PM me if your really interested in selling one or two. 1 Quote
Super User dodgeguy Posted January 21, 2023 Super User Posted January 21, 2023 On 1/14/2023 at 12:05 PM, Tatulatard said: Why are you obsessed about Lews reels? It's not even the old could ones either. Weird. You show up in every thread, say things that are factually incorrect, make some sort of reference to Lews reels and leave. You obviously failed to read the good stuff I've posted about Shimano and Diawa reels. I've very rarely heard guys complain about how long the Diawa or Shimano stuff lasts or the quality. Most of them say the quality is fantastic. I'm not a Daiwa or Shimano guy but I know they are quality. The machining and designs are far superior to years ago for all manufacturers.  This being one of them.  On 1/14/2023 at 12:05 PM, Tatulatard said: Why are you obsessed about Lews reels? It's not even the old could ones either. Weird. You show up in every thread, say things that are factually incorrect, make some sort of reference to Lews reels and leave. What have I said that's factually incorrect? Quote
Super User FishTank Posted January 22, 2023 Super User Posted January 22, 2023 On 1/15/2023 at 8:53 AM, garroyo130 said: ^ this a good game  On 1/15/2023 at 2:29 PM, J Francho said: Put me down for #2 as well. Looks like a Shimano.  On 1/15/2023 at 9:44 AM, FrnkNsteen said: Ok,... I'll play! ? Obviously it is near impossible to guess from looking at one image, but here goes.....  Pinion teeth on second image look sharper and cupped, so I will guess it is the bad one that is geary and being replaced, followed by the first image starting to show wear and be geary.  Third image is the brass gear I assume is a micro gear from Shimano, which leaves the last one being the older aluminum gear from 2007  So the bad one is #1. It came out of a Doyo reel and is not the first one I have seen like this. If you look at the teeth in the upper right corner (2 o'clock), they have small scratches in them. This might be ok but the pinion gear is damaged. If you zoom in, you can see the chip out and also the inside of it is grooved.  This reel is 3 years old.  #2 is from a Metanium MG7 which is the original from 2007. The guy it came from lived near Lake Fork and it was his primary reel. It was serviced each year though but it has seen more big fish than I will see in my lifetime.  This reel is as smooth as butter but is not as smooth as my Core. You can tell the difference between the brass gear and the aluminum.  #3 is from a Shimano Antares 2012 that was used in saltwater. The reel itself was in pretty good condition and was taken care of but the problem with it wasn't the gear set, it was a bearing.  What you see in the picture is what it looked like after it was cleaned and polished.  #4 is from a Banax reel. This is sort of a tough one. I have found little wrong with the gear set itself but there is some play between the drive shaft and frame. Also, there is some wear and play in the pinion grove that fits the pin on the spool. It will make a clicking noise occasionally. Under load the retrieve is not the best but just reeling a bait in, it feels fine. This reel is around 2 years old.  To me, the gear thing is over blown. Brass, I think, will soften the feel of other problems a reel might be having. On the other side of it, I can't say Aluminum transmits the feel of the inside of a reel more. There are just too many things that could be causing issues and the pinion and main gear should be the last on the list to check for problems. Dirt and gunk that get into reels cause more issues, to me, than anything else. Keeping a reel clean and serviced does help a lot.  Also, I have only seen one gear set from Daiwa that was bad and that was years ago. Plus, I didn't have any to show at this time.  Adding one more disclaimer, these are just observations and do not represent each manufacture individually. I own or have owned reels from each of them and have had both good luck and bad luck with each.  2 Quote
Super User Maxximus Redneckus Posted April 7, 2023 Super User Posted April 7, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 9:18 PM, Motoboss said: Mine are near 30 years old so if new ones last longer I wouldn’t be around to use em! Ya how anyone know if new reels will last longer then 30 yrs if they only been out 5 yrs Quote
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