mishandling fish

[frogflogger]

Not to start new year off on a negative note - but I was just watching a fishing show (won't go in to which one) they were fishing for big spots on Carters Lake, Ga. (I hope to be there this month for some float n fly time.) The host (tackle rep) constantly jacked the jaws on beautiful spots.

We all know better than that.

[Paul Roberts]

Not everyone knows better, apparently. I suppose we have to think about it, first. Or someone has to say something, (and run the risk of being called PC).

 

I agree with frogflogger that it's important to show respect to the creatures we pursue. It's a world-wide media culture now -cameras are everywhere- and people learn in large part by emulation. 

 

At the same time, space needs to be given for people to make mistakes and learn from them. Anyone have a teenager at home?  It's especially tough to make mistakes on camera, esp in front of an anonymous and often nasty audience. Taking, and giving, criticism with grace is the best way to teach and learn. Hmm, sounds like a resolution.

 

 

 

 

[Jeff H]

They never learn.  Bill Dance has done it since the beginning of time and is the all time worst IMO.  Heck they all do it.  It is something that bothers me and I have made an effort to be conscious of this in my boat for many years now.  I may not be perfect but I do try.  Give 'em a little respect!

[Paul Roberts]

Bass jaws aren't exactly weak, but big ones -which most of us don't handle on a regular basis- are at greater risk of damage. Managers in the the Texas ShareLunker program have had things to say about this bc they've seen serious damage in some of their angler donated fish (albeit these are huge bass). Fish make their livings with their mouths and catch&release is for naught if fish are returned damaged, even compromised.

 

I do hold small to medium sized bass out somewhat horizontal but I distribute the forces exerted on the lower jaws, gill arches, and neck vertebrae by supporting the head with my last three fingers held rigidly up under the pelvic girdle.

[Glenn]

The biggest misconception about this, is that people believe that ALL sizes of bass will suffer damage if held even slightly horizontal by the lip....and that the damage is automatic. Meaning you'll kill a fish every time it's held even slightly horizontal.

 

That's like saying you'll contract cancer after your first cigarette.

 

Truth is, only fish over 5lbs are AT RISK of damage. The larger the fish, and the more often it's held horizontal by the lip, the more likelihood the damage.  But it's not automatic.

 

Seems some folks are taking this to the extreme, and think it applies to all fish, and they're all getting killed.

 

I'm glad people want to handle fish properly.  Being properly educated is critical.

 

 

[Fun4Me]

I would rather just have people handle all fish the same, whether they're 2lbs. or 10. What it comes down to is, you either care or you don't. Justifying mishandling of a 3lb. fish isn't furthering our sport or the misconceptions from others both inside and outside of it IMO.  

[Glenn]

35 minutes ago, Fun4Me said:

....mishandling of a 3lb. fish

 

This is the very misconception that is needlessly getting folks all worked up. The body weight of a smaller bass simply isn't enough to cause any harm. So there's no "mishandling" to get all worked up about.

 

 

[Paul Roberts]

Glenn's video is focusing on a key point -the weight of the bass. And he's right we don't want to overreact. Or make erroneous assumptions, esp about other people's actions.

 

I simply do not actually know how much pressure a bass' jaw (tendons and muscles) can take. I do feel as though I have a feel for it at some level, having handled fish (and many other animals) for a lot of years. (I've been a fisheries and wildlife researcher for many years and was also a veterinary health technician for some of that. But my training in science has me very wary of my "feel" for something.

 

The only piece of research I'm aware of trying to get at the question is this one:

 

It suggests a different recovery effect -but little outwardly noticeable damage- over holding styles: supported, vertical hung, and horizontal hung:

http://www.bassmaster.com/conservation-news/what-s-proper-way-hold-hawg

 

Then there is a piece from a fish physiology and biomechanics researcher (whose worked on biomechanics of bass jaws and feeding), who warns of unseen damage:

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/research/page/6/

 

There is likely a difference between LM and SM as their jaw length is a result of co-evolution with prey, resulting in different relative jaw strengths: SM likened to pliers and LM to a lever. SM's have substantially stronger jaws -measured by bite pressure- due to mechanical advantage of jaw length. Still, my Fisheries Advisor once admonished me for torquing a nice (2-1/2lb) smallmouth up horizontally, while ogling it after taking it from a trap-net.

 

One more point: It may be fine if a bass is held in a certain way while it's calm. But a sudden flip, twist, or wrench in your grip  might cause some damage. Handling animals is not always about what you do but being aware of how the animal will react. Part of handling fish is knowing when it is about to flip, which comes from experience, and of course some luck. 

 

Overall, I'm going to agree with Glenn on this. But, also with others that care should be exercised as fishing does appear to have unseen consequences, and handling is a part of that.

 

 

 

[Fun4Me]

16 minutes ago, Glenn said:

 

This is the very misconception that is needlessly getting folks all worked up. The body weight of a smaller bass simply isn't enough to cause any harm. So there's no "mishandling" to get all worked up about.

 

 

 

It's the perception i'm talking about. Is it really that hard to use two hands to admire one's catch?

 

I can catch a fish on a boat, throw it back in from chest high, and see how many times I can make it do a flip(s) before it hits the water. Am I doing damage to the fish? Maybe, maybe not, but i'm not doing the perception portion of the sport any good. 

 

I believe there's a tournament organization (or a few) that penalize fishermen from releasing fish above the deck of the boat. Again, perception IMO.

 

[Jeff H]

Get in the habit of it with all of them, so when you do handle that 5 your technique remains correct in all your excitement.  Why would anybody feel it necessary to crank on their jaw, small or not? 

[Glenn]

If y'all want to hold those smaller fish as if they're trophy-sized, knock yourself out. Just don't knock somebody else down if they don't.  That's all I'm saying.

 

 

[hoosierbass07]

I've really come to like Jimmy Houston but every bass he catches he jaw grips and torques them a little to give them a kiss.  He wants to kiss all of them, fine.  But torquing them by the jaw, enough!  

[HoosierHawgs]

23 minutes ago, hoosierbass07 said:

I've really come to like Jimmy Houston but every bass he catches he jaw grips and torques them a little to give them a kiss.  He wants to kiss all of them, fine.  But torquing them by the jaw, enough!  

Jimmy ought to stop kissing those fish anyways! One of these days he's gonna catch something not so nice lol

[WRB]

We all have our idiosyncrasies regarding handling bass. A good friend of mine, who bass fishes nearly everyday, likes to release bass of all sizes by flipping them so the fish does a double gainer entering head first. Sometimes it works, most of the time it ends up a loud splash. Another habit of his is fizzing bass caught deep by using a ice pick stabbing the bass, drives me nuts! When I tell him to use my needle, he says if the bass comes back I will keep it to eat.

Tom

[deaknh03]

Here's what bothers me..guys that intentionally mishandle a fish caught mistakenly, be it pickerel or whatever. They're still a live creature, yet some guys yank them by the gills or try to harm or kill them. I find it immature and irresponsible. 

And don't chime in with snakeheads...I'm talking non invasive fish.

[CrustyMono]

7 hours ago, Fun4Me said:

I would rather just have people handle all fish the same, whether they're 2lbs. or 10. What it comes down to is, you either care or you don't. Justifying mishandling of a 3lb. fish isn't furthering our sport or the misconceptions from others both inside and outside of it IMO.  

 

I agree 100% those 1 and 2 pound fish will never become 5 pounders if they die of mishandling...

[Paul Roberts]

1 hour ago, deaknh03 said:

Here's what bothers me..guys that intentionally mishandle a fish caught mistakenly, be it pickerel or whatever. They're still a live creature, yet some guys yank them by the gills or try to harm or kill them. I find it immature and irresponsible. 

And don't chime in with snakeheads...I'm talking non invasive fish.

Once, long ago, I was bobber-n-worm fishing with my dad and I caught ANOTHER tiny bluegill. I was so wanting to catch a bass, the little 'gils were stealing my bait, and our day was running out. I got angry and whipped that little 'gill back into the water, and missed. It smacked the bank, bounced into the water, convulsed on the surface, then floated still. My dad didn't say anything; He didn't have to. 

 

A few years ago, my son and I were fishing and snorkeling in a beautiful private clear water pond in NY we had permission to explore. At one point, I wanted to show him a chain pickeral so I put on a Mepps #2 and promptly caught a smallish pickeral. It was badly tangled in those barbs and extraction resulted in a bit of a bloody and torn mess. I turned to my son and saw tears streaming down his face. I knew what he felt, I know him well: He saw a beautiful, and living, creature damaged, mangled. It felt like vandalism, especially in that setting, and through my son's young and sensitive eyes. I then mashed the barbs fully down and the next pickeral -a much nicer one- leapt clear and threw the Mepps. I've since gone to micro-barbs. (In general, Mepps barbs are overkill).

 

Bottom line for me, I appreciate those amazing beautiful creatures and want to know them, see them, and then put them back as beautiful and healthy as they were when I caught them. There are a few waters around me in which the jaws of many of the bass are torn, mangled, or with parts missing. If it's bad enough, I'll fish elsewhere. And I'm careful not to add to such a scene in other waters I frequent.

[NCbassraider]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

We all have our idiosyncrasies regarding handling bass. A good friend of mine, who bass fishes nearly everyday, likes to release bass of all sizes by flipping them so the fish does a double gainer entering head first. Sometimes it works, most of the time it ends up a loud splash. Another habit of his is fizzing bass caught deep by using a ice pick stabbing the bass, drives me nuts! WhenI tell him to use my needle, he says if it come back I will keep it to eat.

Tom

Uhh, wow.  Karma is a funny thing.

[WildmanWilson]

It may be just me but seems the tournament guys often beat the fish to death anyway. You watch them on TV ski them across the water then sling them in the boat and the may or may not catch it. Then the fish rides around and gets carried 10 miles to a different location the then tossed around some more then release many miles away from its original spot. Not so bad maybe unless it was on a bed. I know money is on the line but come on...slow down and stop being so spastic while bringing the fish in.

I would love to see all pro tournaments go the to catch, weigh, and release that the MLB fishing uses. That way these nesting fish aren't forced to abandon their beds and less stressful on the fish. It will never fly though.

[Jeff H]

I don't know that dropping them over the gunnel hurts them.  They jump out of the water and slam themselves back down, especially smallies.  I've had them jump smack into the side of my boat many times.  Throwing fish is not cool though.  I don't feel the need to slap them, throw them or crank on their jaw, regardless of size, but I'm guilty of dropping them back over the side of the boat.  I have boat flipped them and failed to catch the line and they've landed on the carpet and I try not to do that.  I use my rubber net on any with treble hook lures or bigger fish.  I'm not innocent of poor handling but I do try to do a respectable job.

[NCbassraider]

51 minutes ago, WildmanWilson said:

It may be just me but seems the tournament guys often beat the fish to death anyway. You watch them on TV ski them across the water then sling them in the boat and the may or may not catch it. Then the fish rides around and gets carried 10 miles to a different location the then tossed around some more then release many miles away from its original spot. Not so bad maybe unless it was on a bed. I know money is on the line but come on...slow down and stop being so spastic while bringing the fish in.

I would love to see all pro tournaments go the to catch, weigh, and release that the MLB fishing uses. That way these nesting fish aren't forced to abandon their beds and less stressful on the fish. It will never fly though.

I wish every event would go to Major League Fishing rules.  They get time penalties if a fish touches the carpet.  Also there is no cradling allowed, the fish can't touch any part of your body except your hand and you can't release them above the gunnel.

 

They weigh and release all fish immediately.  These rules and formats do much more than protect the fish from miss-handling and dislocated/broken jaws.  It allows the bass to return to its bed during spawning and it removes all the stress of live well holding and bag weigh-ins.

 

Also, at most events all the bagged fish are released in one spot and that leads to locals coming in behind the release and fishing around the release area try to land trophies.  In general, people who would do this don't catch and release.

 

It is an insignificant expense to put an official on each boat in TV sponsored events.

[OCdockskipper]

If one chooses to drop a bass back in the water from a standing height, I believe it would be beneficial if they were dropped head first.  If they enter the water in that direction and go down a couple of feet, there is a rush of water through their gills, not unlike pulling a fish through the water to revive them.  I have no scientific proof to back it up, but common sense says that would be less detrimental than the fish entering the water backwards or slapping the surface on its side.

[N Florida Mike]

I practice catch and release ( for the most part )

I will go to great lengths to get the hook out of a fish without injuring it.

I don't ever waste a dead fish- it will be eaten.There have been a handful of times I planned to clean them later and forgot,and they went bad.I felt so bad I asked God to forgive me.

I don't remember ever throwing a fish into the water.I drop them over.I don't flip them.

That being said, I don't always lay them softly into the water.

And I have always held a bass by the mouth.I will sometimes also support a bigger fish.Sorry,but in 40 + years I have not seen any hands-on  evidence that mouth gripping a fish without support injures it. Maybe I'm wrong.I feel like I've improved some anyway.At least I don't eat every bass  like I did when I was young.

[NCbassraider]

Jaw dislocation is very subtle and you would not feel it.  It can be seen if you know what to look for and sometimes without knowing what to look for.  I have caught several with dislocated jaws.  Some say you won't damage anything under 3 lbs by holding them past vertical but that's simply not true.  If you hold a 2 or 3 lb fish horizontal or anywhere past vertical, there is a great chance you will dislocate it's jaw.

[Kyhokie]

Thank you Bassresource. This post has restored my faith in humanity.