Lure rating vs rod stiffness?

[MDbassin]

Ok so I've got a question in my quest for new rods I have heard as I'm sure all of us have that certain rods fish heavier/lighter then what they say they are.

I have noticed that the lure weight ratings on the rods people say fish heavier have heavier lure ratings then a comparable length, power, action rod from a different company.

For example a 6'8" mh/f st.croix is rated at 3/8-1 oz which people say a st.croix is a stiffer rod. Then a Dobyns 7' mh/f is rated for 1/4-3/4 oz.

Is this just a coincidence or can you use this as a indicator as to whether the rod is stiffer or lighter compared to others? What would be the lure rating be on a true Mh/f rod?

Maybe I'm just overthinking this or maybe I'm onto something I don't know I just figured I'd ask

[Logan S]

People may or may not agree with this...But I consider rods to be rated the following regardless of what the manufacturer writes on the blank.  It's a generalization, but it's served me well.  

 

Medium = up to 5/8oz or 3/4oz

Medium Heavy = up to 1oz

Heavy = up to 1.5oz

 

To answer your question, yes use the the lure and line ratings to see the 'true' power rating of a rod.  

[bigfruits]

it really depends on the manufacturer.

 

for example, my megabass MH rod is rated up to 1oz. it does not feel right with 1oz baits. one of my loomis MH rods is rated up to 3/4oz but can handle more easily. The megabass does feel a bit more powerful but not as much as the lure rating suggests.

 

the best measurements of power ive seen are deflection graphs that TT provides in their rod reviews.

its basically hanging different weights off a rod and measuring the bend. not perfect but great when comparing rods for a general idea.

 

tip stiffness is totally different from the power of a rod.

[smalljaw67]

The lure specs on the rod will give you a general idea of the power but since there isn't any industry standard you really have to try the rod out. As for the stiffness, there really isn't any way to know if a rod is stiff or it is soft, not even taper can tell you that. The only way to really tell is to fish with it or ask someone who has fished with the rod, otherwise it is a guess.

[new2BC4bass]

As bigfruits noted, you can't take the ratings listed on a rod as gospel.  Sometimes they are accurate...sometimes they are not.  Only way to know for sure is to try different weights until you find the rod's limits on both ends.  I have a 7'6" MHF Villain rated 3/8 to 1-1/4 oz.  I don't care for how it casts a 1/2 oz. weight.  I prefer heavier.  Forget the 3/8 oz. entirely.  On the other end I tried a 1-1/2 oz. jig and felt it was definitely too heavy.  I bought that jig just to try on this rod.  There wasn't a jig at 1-1/4 oz. in the store.  I don't have a 1-1/4 oz. lure of any kind to try so I still don't know what its upper limit is.  So although this rod is rated down to 3/8 oz., I personally will stick with 5/8 oz. up to whatever I find to be best on the upper end.  For the type of fishing I do, I consider this a Heavy rod.  Were I to use it for swimbaits, I'd consider it a ML or Light.

[Angry John]

4 hours ago, bigfruits said:

it really depends on the manufacturer.

 

for example, my megabass MH rod is rated up to 1oz. it does not feel right with 1oz baits. one of my loomis MH rods is rated up to 3/4oz but can handle more easily. The megabass does feel a bit more powerful but not as much as the lure rating suggests.

 

the best measurements of power ive seen are deflection graphs that TT provides in their rod reviews.

its basically hanging different weights off a rod and measuring the bend. not perfect but great when comparing rods for a general idea.

 

tip stiffness is totally different from the power of a rod.

Rod builders use a system like the one shown on TT to rate a blank for measured action speed and power.  I dont remember the system its like rdta or something like that.  Each company has their own system for ratings and only rods in their line will be relatively faster or heavier action compared to others in the same line.   That has resulted in these forums exploding with this type of thread and or comparing one rod to another from different companies.  We all wish the industry would develop a useable standard but they have yet to get it together.  This is why custom builders have such a hard time because there are shared databases but most builders keep this information to themselves as it is a valuable tool.  OTTER RODS on TT is one of the best builders i know and he has a huge database from rods he has built and does the measurements each and every time.  The same blank from the same company still has some deviation so even two identical builds can vary.

[bigfruits]

OP - i recommend finding a rod you think is ideal for your intended purposes and ask on this forum and other places for advice from people who have fished it. as a general rule i aim for the middle range of the lure rating for ideal casting weight. describe the lures and weights you want to throw and the action you desire. if you cant get your hands on the rod, thats the best way to get a good feel for the rods characteristics IMO.

 

nothing to do with the post and you probably know this but its good to note that an XF or F action does not necessarily mean a softer or stiffer tip. 

 

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

While the lure wright ratings and power are both subjective the lure weight rating is more useful in general if you have no experience with a rod model and can't physically handle it. Dead lift power in the butt section often affects the way a maker assigns power labels as well

[MassYak85]

Purely coincidence, every manufacturer is different. For me, a "true" MH/F would be like 3/8 - 1 oz. 

[MickD]

All ratings on rods are somewhat subjective, thus are approximations.  I agree that St. Croix rods are usually a little more powerful than you would expect from their description.  I'm not familiar with the TT system, but the CCS system is a good way to get objective data on rod power and action.

 

http://www.common-cents.info/

 

One can make their own rig that doesn't take up the space of the one described at the CCS sites, and it correlates well with the big sheet rig.  With CCS it all becomes objective, and once you understand it, and fish with rods that have been rated, it is easy to get the rod you want for the next one.  It does not damage or mark the rod in any way so one could buy a rod, test it, then return it if it didn't perform as expected.  With time and experience (there are data on line for some rods, but not even close to all) one predict very well what CCS numbers will work for what your are trying to get.

[MickD]

I looked into the TT ratings, and their chart appears to me to be a simple rod deflection chart, and I don't see how one can interpret it to get "action" ratings.  It appears to simply measure "power."  Force vs deflection.

 

The CCS system measures deflection at 1/3 (and at other points if you want more sophisticated info) its length (a 9 foot rod is measured at the weight it takes to get 36 inches deflection).  The weight it takes gives an objective measurement of "power."  At that deflected position the angle of the deflected tip is also measured, and this gives an objective "action" rating.  The higher the angle, the faster the action.  A very fast action is usually about 77 degrees, a fast about 70-74, and moderate about 65 or a little higher.  But it doesn't matter what you call them, the number tells the story.  So 500 (grams)/75(degrees) blank is about what a St Croix SCV 7 foot MF measures.

More sophisticated measurements can give you numbers relative to sensitivity and speed of recovery.

 

If you want to really get objective about rod ratings, CCS is the way to go.  It works for any rod or blank, no matter what type.

[WdyCrankbait]

yeah, I also think it has to do with intended use of the rod.  I have multiple Powell Endurance rods and to me, generally, they are heavier then their rates.  But, my squarebill rod and my senko have the same ratings, (as I remember), but I have a lot more faith in overloading my senko road then my squarebill rod. 

 

Good question.

[Airman4754]

Most rods are pretty close to their rating. The only real exception I have found is the 894 NRX. It is rated for 3/4oz and it handles double of that with ease.