Braid to Flouro Leader

[npl_texas]

Hi guys, just a quick question.  I've been experimenting with braid to a flouro leader for a few different presentations where I was fishing straight flouro (cranks, soft plastics, etc.).  A quick youtube search and I learned to tie the uni to uni knot.  The problem I'm having is the knot hitting the guides and even feeding through the eye of the reel.  Most of my sticks have micro guides which I'm assuming is the problem.

I wanted to pick y'alls brain for any tips you might have to prevent this.  It is affecting casting distance and it just feels a little weird. 

EDIT:  I'm using 30# braid to 12# flouro leader

What do you guys do to keep this from happening? 

 

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

[Darren.]

Do a search on this topic, there are dozens of posts
here that will give you more info.

But part of the issue you're having may be size of your
leader. I.e., are you tying a 17-20# leader with 50# braid?
that makes for a pretty big knot.

Another knot that will be thinner is the Albright (modified).
Search for that on YouTube or animated knots.com and
practice tying it.

The thinnest knot will be a 10 for difficulty (10 being most
difficult), known as the FG knot. I personally don't use it 
but some here do. It is not one you tie on the water, too
many variables.

I use 10-15# braid with 6-10# fluorocarbon leader and use
the uni-to-uni all the time. No issues with the micro guides
on my Legend Tournament spinning rod. But note I'm using
small diameter lines.

[FishOnLMB]

I like to use the FG knot. It is an extremely strong and thin knot. I have not had any problems with it.  As long as you tie it correctly, you should be fine.

[rippin-lips]

The Albright special works great. I've used it for years now on different types and diameters of line. You add wraps for thinner lines like #10 braid to #6 fluoro. All my rods have small micro guides and I have no issues. The longest I make my leader is were the knot is a few inches in front of the line guide. Which is roughly 7' long. I mainly fish #30 braid and my leaders are generally #12-16 lines. I use 6-10 wraps. For the thinner lines as I mentioned above I've used up to 20 wraps. Too few and it won't hold.

[bagofdonuts]

have any of you tried a double surgeons knot. i used it fly fishing all the time without fail. not sure how it does with braid.

[rangerjockey]

I only use the the surgeons knot. I can tie it quickly in the wind,cold etc..

[blckshirt98]

For a crankbait go with straight braid, you don't need a fluoro leader (or at least I haven't noticed any difference in strikes).  If you're concerned about getting the crankbait down with braid, just use straight fluoro.  For finesse I can't think of a presentation where you would need to reel in enough line where a braid-to-fluoro knot would hit your guides.  Personally I used to use a double-uni knot to connect 20lb braid to 6-10lb fluoro, but ran into a lot of line burn/breaking issues where I just use a Spro Power Swivel now, and haven't had any breakage issues since.

[Buckeye Ron]

51 minutes ago, blckshirt98 said:

For a crankbait go with straight braid, you don't need a fluoro leader (or at least I haven't noticed any difference in strikes).  If you're concerned about getting the crankbait down with braid, just use straight fluoro.  For finesse I can't think of a presentation where you would need to reel in enough line where a braid-to-fluoro knot would hit your guides.  Personally I used to use a double-uni knot to connect 20lb braid to 6-10lb fluoro, but ran into a lot of line burn/breaking issues where I just use a Spro Power Swivel now, and haven't had any breakage issues since.

How long should the flouro be?

[Big Bait Fishing]

3 hours ago, bagofdonuts said:

have any of you tried a double surgeons knot. i used it fly fishing all the time without fail. not sure how it does with braid.

the Surgeon's knot is excellent for braid to flouro , i use for my spinning setup ( 10lb. SX1 to 6lb. Sniper ) and on my casting setup ( 30lb. SX1 to 14lb. Sniper ) both rods have micro guides ..

the Surgeon's Knot is nice and compact , very strong and Very easy to tie !!!

[Further North]

I tie FG knots on the water all the time.  They are a little time consuming, but worth the effort in my estimation.

[Outdoor Zack]

9 hours ago, rippin-lips said:

The Albright special works great. I've used it for years now on different types and diameters of line. You add wraps for thinner lines like #10 braid to #6 fluoro. All my rods have small micro guides and I have no issues. The longest I make my leader is were the knot is a few inches in front of the line guide. Which is roughly 7' long. I mainly fish #30 braid and my leaders are generally #12-16 lines. I use 6-10 wraps. For the thinner lines as I mentioned above I've used up to 20 wraps. Too few and it won't hold.

This. 

[MickD]

The FG takes some time and practice to get used to , but it is the smallest knot available.  For the pound tests you are working with, it's pretty well in its sweet spot.  It gets difficult in the lower pound tests, like 15 pound leader onto 15 pound braid.  But the saving grace is that in the lighter pound tests the double uni works well, is easy to tie, and is small enough to clear most guides.  If your knot is going onto the reel, you have too much length.  Try shortening the leader  to about 4 feet.

As one poster reports, a lot of fishermen don't use the leader, but in clear water, I'm convinced it will give more strikes than straight braid, especially if the braid is light colored.  One way to make braid less visible is to "mottle" it with a dark sharpie to give it a sort of camo appearance.

The FG is so small that it can go through micros well, and it lasts almost forever while double unis get beaten up and have to be retied more often. I've had FG's last until the leader got so short from retying that I had to start over.  But the knot lasted many fishing trips.

If you want to try the FG, search for videos; there are a few very good ones.  Search for "FG knot."

[MassYak85]

I'll give my votes to the FG and the Albright as well. I personally do not like the Uni to Uni for several reasons, one of which being what you are encountering in that it is bulky and I don't like how it comes through guides. 

[Turkey sandwich]

I like the Uni to Uni a lot and fish it on multiples rods with microguides with very, very few problems and use 30lb PP or 832 and  12lb Hybrid as one of my most common leader materials (not tiny diameter, and not super limp - but excellent knot strength).  From what you've mentioned, I see one big issue.

Keep your leader short enough so that it doesn't reach your reel.  Catching on the eye of the reel can damage the knot, foul casts, and just create a lot of aggrevation. This is good advice for any leader knot on both, spinning and casting gear. This isn't fishing dry flies for trout - no need for a 12' leader here.  This is likely the cause of 75% of your issues.  3'-6' of leader is 99% more than enough. 

[Oregon Native]

Like the double uni.

[fishballer06]

If your leader knot is going through the line guide of your reel, your leader is WAY too long. 16-24 inches is all the longer you need a leader to be. If your leader knot is reaching down to your reels line guide, you've easily got 7-8 feet of leader. 

[blckshirt98]

17 hours ago, Buckeye Ron said:

How long should the flouro be?

I usually keep my leader to around 25 inches, give or take a few - I pull more leader than I need from the spool in case i mess up my knot and need to trim/re-tie.

[rippin-lips]

4 hours ago, fishballer06 said:

If your leader knot is going through the line guide of your reel, your leader is WAY too long. 16-24 inches is all the longer you need a leader to be. If your leader knot is reaching down to your reels line guide, you've easily got 7-8 feet of leader. 

I run 7' leaders a lot of the time. I make the majority of mine about 4' 80% of the time. There's no issue running a long leader though. A long leader is nice in some situations. You can cut and re tie a bunch before needing a new leader. 

[MassYak85]

I disagree with the people saying your leader is too long if it is going into the reel. Is a 3 foot leader enough....probably. Is that 3 foot leader now down to mere inches after you retie throughout the day and now you need to tie on a new leader...yes. If you tie a low profile leader knot going into your reel shouldn't be an issue. I do it all the time. 

[Darren.]

I have no problems with my leader reeling up on
my spool. In fact, Gary Yamamoto discusses in one
of his articles how he likes (IIRC) a 20' leader as he
wants the knot on the spool when he gets the bass
close to the boat so there's no knot to break.

 

Personally, that's overkill, but FWIW.

[fishballer06]

1 hour ago, rippin-lips said:

I run 7' leaders a lot of the time. I make the majority of mine about 4' 80% of the time. There's no issue running a long leader though. A long leader is nice in some situations. You can cut and re tie a bunch before needing a new leader. 

 

26 minutes ago, MassYak85 said:

I disagree with the people saying your leader is too long if it is going into the reel. Is a 3 foot leader enough....probably. Is that 3 foot leader now down to mere inches after you retie throughout the day and now you need to tie on a new leader...yes. If you tie a low profile leader knot going into your reel shouldn't be an issue. I do it all the time. 

 

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I like to be safer rather than sorry.

 

Most of my leaders are 18-24", and sometimes I'll make them up to around 36" if it's really clear water with a slow presentation. Yes, it is nice to cut and retie throughout the day, but in my opinion, that's where you can get in trouble. If you have a FC leader, and you cut and retie, cut and retie, rinse and repeat, to the point that your 7' leader is now 1', you should probably be tying a brand new leader knot as well. 

 

When using braid, which doesn't stretch, and a fluorocarbon or mono leader, which does stretch, keep in mind that over time, that fluorocarbon or mono gets thinner and weaker with each cast/fish/cover it comes into contact with. So in my thinking, I'd rather have a fresh leader material than having a super long leader that I can cut and retie five/six/seven times. 

[MickD]

Re the Albright knot, note how the tag end goes back through the leader loop from the same side as it went out.  If you don't do that exactly right, the knot will fail.  It's not hard, but you have to tie that knot (and most others) exactly right.

Re the comments about the double uni working well with leaders of 25 pounds or so with micro guides, I'm very skeptical.  Of course there are diameters of guides that are called micros that go up to 5.5 mm (outer diameter, not inner diameter), and maybe it will be ok for those, but for the smaller micros, I just don't buy it.  To be safe try what you want to use yourself to make sure it will work to your satisfaction.  (there are five layers of leader in a double uni, and 25 pound mono is about .017 inches in diameter, so that knot can easily be a little less than a tenth of an inch in diameter.  That's pretty big to pass easily and cleanly through the smaller micros.)

[Further North]

22 hours ago, MickD said:

I've had FG's last until the leader got so short from retying that I had to start over.

Same here.

 

That is, in fact, the norm for FG knots for me.

[Fun4Me]

I took the time to learn the FG knot, and haven't gone back to another knot since.

[MassYak85]

8 hours ago, fishballer06 said:

 

 

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I like to be safer rather than sorry.

 

Most of my leaders are 18-24", and sometimes I'll make them up to around 36" if it's really clear water with a slow presentation. Yes, it is nice to cut and retie throughout the day, but in my opinion, that's where you can get in trouble. If you have a FC leader, and you cut and retie, cut and retie, rinse and repeat, to the point that your 7' leader is now 1', you should probably be tying a brand new leader knot as well. 

 

When using braid, which doesn't stretch, and a fluorocarbon or mono leader, which does stretch, keep in mind that over time, that fluorocarbon or mono gets thinner and weaker with each cast/fish/cover it comes into contact with. So in my thinking, I'd rather have a fresh leader material than having a super long leader that I can cut and retie five/six/seven times. 

I haven't done any in depth testing of line (though I would like to at some point, that kind of stuff interests me) but couldn't you make the same argument when running straight fluoro? I mean I know that the line does do this over time but enough to worry about when a leader might only be on for a day, or a few trips? Straight fluoro might be on an entire season for some guys and I don't hear about this being an issue that much. And usually a leader is tied on for the desired properties of the leader line being near the lure, whether that is abrasion resistance or line clarity, not usually strength. And again, I haven't done line testing and can't back this up, but I don't think that for the time the leader is going to realistically be tied on before a new one is necessary, that you would notice that affect to any degree in which it becomes a problem. Using the FG knot I've had the same leader knot tied on for what was probably thousands of casts, going through the reel every time. Never had a failure. I know Matt Allen runs very long leaders on some of his set ups. I think he said 15 or 20 feet for cranking. 

 

Again this is all anecdotal but until I experience a failure or a test shows a significant decrease in strength I have no reason to stop doing what has worked.