Best braking style for pitching/short range casting?

[fishwizzard]

Hi,

I want to put together a casting combo for lightweight pitching and other close-in casting.   I have noticed that with some of my reels I can pitch with relative ease, but other it is a real struggle.  The other night I was reading some stuff about it online and came across this article from Japan Tackle.  

http://japantackle.com/tackle_topics/brake_system.htm

It is a basic overview of the different breaking styles but what caught my attention is their claim that centrifugal braking is better for pitching/short casts then magnetic systems.   Thinking about it, the reels I already own that I pitch well with have centrifugal breaks and the ones I struggle with have magnetic brakes.  

Can anyone else comment on this?  It never occurred to me what a large roll the braking system would play in casting, but it seems obvious once I read about it.  I looked around online for more info but came up short.  If I want a reel for short casts should I be looking at ones with centrifugal brakes? 

[A-Jay]

Picthing, flipping, short range, & long range - it's all just casting.

I'll say that the type of reel braking system is another one of those personal preference deals.

And I don't think any single piece of equipment can replace comfort & familiarity with the gear.

I believe that equipment & design can help but it will rarely replace practice and experience as a route to success.

A good thumb can trump marginal design any day & twice on Sunday.

Six of one & a Half Dozen of another.

A-Jay

 

[Deleted account]

29 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Picthing, flipping, short range, & long range - it's all just casting.

I'll say that the type of reel braking system is another one of those personal preference deals.

And I don't think any single piece of equipment can replace comfort & familiarity with the gear.

I believe that equipment & design can help but it will rarely replace practice and experience as a route to success.

A good thumb can trump marginal design any day & twice on Sunday.

Six of one & a Half Dozen of another.

A-Jay

 

Great answer. I'll add that pitching with heavier lures can be easily done with most reels, lighter lures benefit from lighter spools and better brakes. I like very little or no brakes while pitching, and usually use a little heavier (more viscous) oil on the bearings.

[Jeff H]

Each to their own.  I prefer Daiwa's Magforce Z for it all, except maybe light lure casting Magforce V comes in well.   For me there is no 6 or half dozen about it, Mag Z is the freaking bomb!  And...I'm finding the 3D system to be quite stellar as well and on it's way to becoming my new favorite. 

[fishwizzard]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

Picthing, flipping, short range, & long range - it's all just casting.

I'll say that the type of reel braking system is another one of those personal preference deals.

And I don't think any single piece of equipment can replace comfort & familiarity with the gear.

I believe that equipment & design can help but it will rarely replace practice and experience as a route to success.

A good thumb can trump marginal design any day & twice on Sunday.

Six of one & a Half Dozen of another.

A-Jay

 

Before fishing I was into mid range target shooting and with it there were things that mattered a lot at all levels, like a consistent trigger pull, and things that only mattered once you were very very skilled, like checking each bullet for roundness.  I suspect fishing is the same way, but I don't yet have a sense of what category things fall into. 

While I do very much believe you that experience does trump all, but I really notice a huge difference between a Lews BB1 with a centrifugal brake and a Lews LFS with a magnetic.  For a while I had them on the same rod with almost identical line and it was really night and day.  Obviously one is a more expensive reel then the other, but even my nicer Daiwa reels I struggle to pitch with, even using a wide range of lure weights to try and find a sweet spot.  

While I know I do need to practice more, I would like to get a reel that makes it as easy to learn as possible.  Also I am now seeing that "For enthusiasts, technique specific gear is fun to collect" thing that gets posted a lot happening to me. 

 

EDIT: I want to make sure that I am not coming off dismissive of your vastly greater experience, but I am only trying to put some information to the results I am seeing with different reels with similar rods, lines, and lures.  

[A-Jay]

1 minute ago, Bunnielab said:

Before fishing I was into mid range target shooting and with it there were things that mattered a lot at all levels, like a consistent trigger pull, and things that only mattered once you were very very skilled, like checking each bullet for roundness.  I suspect fishing is the same way, but I don't yet have a sense of what category things fall into. 

While I do very much believe you that experience does trump all, but I really notice a huge difference between a Lews BB1 with a centrifugal brake and a Lews LFS with a magnetic.  For a while I had them on the same rod with almost identical line and it was really night and day.  Obviously one is a more expensive reel then the other, but even my nicer Daiwa reels I struggle to pitch with, even using a wide range of lure weights to try and find a sweet spot.  

While I know I do need to practice more, I would like to get a reel that makes it as easy to learn as possible.  Also I am now seeing that "For enthusiasts, technique specific gear is fun to collect" thing that gets posted a lot happening to me. 

 

 

I've done a good bit of shooting myself - not competitively but just to defend myself & my boarding team on a moving boat.  Easy.

Think of that constant trigger pull, the same way a revolving spool caster's thumb has to be.

Some casters do not ask the reel to do all of the spool feathering & light touch required to ensure an accurate cast that includes a quite entry, others do.    My reels assist my thumb ~ not the other way around.

YMMV

A-Jay

[crypt]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

Picthing, flipping, short range, & long range - it's all just casting.

I'll say that the type of reel braking system is another one of those personal preference deals.

And I don't think any single piece of equipment can replace comfort & familiarity with the gear.

I believe that equipment & design can help but it will rarely replace practice and experience as a route to success.

A good thumb can trump marginal design any day & twice on Sunday.

Six of one & a Half Dozen of another.

A-Jay

 

trust in the thumb……….

[fishwizzard]

1 minute ago, A-Jay said:

I've done a good bit of shooting myself - not competitively but just to defend myself & my boarding team on a moving boat.  Easy.

Think of that constant trigger pull, the same way a revolving spool caster's thumb has to be.

Some casters do not ask the reel to do all of the spool feathering & light touch required to ensure an accurate cast that includes a quite entry, others do.    My reels assist my thumb ~ not the other way around.

YMMV

A-Jay

That is a good way to look at it.  I learned to drive stick very late in life and the realizing "the clutch pedal is the trigger" was my breakthrough moment.  

While training my thumb is needed, I also have trouble starting the pitch in terms of getting the line to flow freely enough. I usually keep my breaks pretty heavy and have a hard time getting the bait to sail parallel to the water.   I can only seem to get the mag reels to let the line flow well if I back the brakes and spool tension way way off, which kills me in any kind of wind.  I do a fair bit of pitching when I fish my spinning combos and can consistently make pretty decent pitches with the occasional "so perfect I wish some was around to see" one mixed in.  

[new2BC4bass]

44 minutes ago, Jeff H said:

Each to their own.  I prefer Daiwa's Magforce Z for it all, except maybe light lure casting Magforce V comes in well.   For me there is no 6 or half dozen about it, Mag Z is the freaking bomb!  And...I'm finding the 3D system to be quite stellar as well and on it's way to becoming my new favorite. 

Pitching is not something I've tried with the 3D braking system, but I find that system to be one of...if not the...best for me.  It is the only system I can turn all the brakes off and still make a cast without a professional backlash.  I have to conclude that the 3D system is still applying some braking even with it set for the minimum.  A couple times I have made my first cast with a new-to-me reel only to backlash the crap out of it because I had failed to check the brakes......there weren't any on.

[A-Jay]

12 hours ago, Bunnielab said:

That is a good way to look at it.  I learned to drive stick very late in life and the realizing "the clutch pedal is the trigger" was my breakthrough moment.  

While training my thumb is needed, I also have trouble starting the pitch in terms of getting the line to flow freely enough. I usually keep my breaks pretty heavy and have a hard time getting the bait to sail parallel to the water.   I can only seem to get the mag reels to let the line flow well if I back the brakes and spool tension way way off, which kills me in any kind of wind.  I do a fair bit of pitching when I fish my spinning combos and can consistently make pretty decent pitches with the occasional "so perfect I wish some was around to see" one mixed in.  

Pitching & Flipping with Lighter weights (and you'll have to tell us what that means to you) with casting gear is relatively tricky for even a seasoned caster.  The technique is routinely most effective with a weight that will at the very least load the rod.  That's where choosing balanced tackle comes into play.  The rod, reel, line & bait all need to be working together with the human handling it - to make it all go according to plan.

Check to ensure your rod isn't the problem.  If it's not loading, at least a little, with the weight you're tossing, I'd either switch rods, bait weight, or perhaps go to lighter line.

 Another option is to us more conventional gear & roll cast it.

A-Jay

[fishwizzard]

I have tried it with a bunch of different weights with a few different rods.  I usually start in the middle of the rating and work up, only getting any really success when I get up around or over the max.  The BB1 is on a MH rated from like 3/8-1oz and it will pitch acceptably with a 5' senko and very well with a 3/8oz jig with a trailer, so lets say 1/2 to 5/8oz total weight.  For a while I had the LFS on an identical rod (picked up two of the Fenwick Smallmouth's when they were clearing them out) and it was not happing with the senko and the jig was getting maybe a third less distance and none of the smoothness.  With the BB1 I could hit a paint can lid at 20-25' most every time, with the LFS it was all I could do to get it that far in a controllable manner. 

My Daiwa reels are on L and ML rods and I have run the range of weights with them, but only at the upper end or over can I really get any distance but never the smoothness.  

I bank fish a lot of really over grown ponds and have a lot of spots where my back is right up to the brush.  I want this new combo to be able to throw say a 5' senko on the light end and an say 5/8oz total weight jig/punch rig at the high end.  I was looking at the Loomis Classic series of rods as I am not going to be making long casts and a short rod is far far easier to fight through the brush.  Most guys are not willing to fight the thorns and it is really clear that a lot of these ponds only see pressure from a few clear sections of bank.  On my kayak I also find a short rod is easier to deal with and I have a few spots in mind where I can drift into a large pad field and pitch to holes or laydowns/stumps.  I would love to find a reel that can help with throwing lighter baits so that I can size down when needed but still have enough rod to pull them out of the cover.  

[Raul]

Best braking system, ok, there you go ----> 

that's the best system.

[rippin-lips]

It's just about putting in time getting better with it. For me when pitching the brakes are down around 2-3 on my mag reels. Spool tension is always the same. Just enough to eliminate any side to side play. As mentioned your thumb plays a big part in controlling the spool. 

[Columbia Craw]

This has been a great discussion.  I never let someone try one of my casting set ups if I don't know they are experienced and even then, I set the controls much much tighter first. BACKLASH. My thumb does almost all the spool control.  Even with that comment, I am (a once skeptical) believer, that spool design does play a big part in cast control. I never thought i'd say this but the SV spools in Diawas makes casting easier. The Magforce Z system does work very well.  I've owned or fished well over 300 casting reels over the years and I cannot discount these features. They work even though I don't need to rely on their merit to help spool speed and control.  There, I said it.  I refused to accept an alternative to dual cast control systems for years.  There is another option, I just wish SV spooled reels weren't so blasted expensive. 

[Catt]

Setup your (personal preference) reel up properly, have the correct rod, & educate your thumb!

My #1 technique this years is a Zoom Ultra Vibe Speed Worm, 1/8 oz weight, & 2/0 straight shank hook.

I flipped, pitched, & roll casted that setup with a Calcutta 100A that I've used for 35+ yrs now.

[Glenn]

This speaks about the different braking systems: