Issues with college football playoffs

[Caliyak]

I'm hearing these pointless debates all over ESPN and Fox Sports. here is my beef with the college playoffs, a conference winner is not guaranteed a spot. Michigan or Ohio State can get in, how? they are not the best in their conference so how are they the best in the country? Only conference winners should be considered. What say you? 

I rather see an undefeated West Michigan team get in before a team that is not a conference winner. 

[flyfisher]

Conference winners really don't mean much to me.  The conferences are all differing levels of competitiveness.  You can also lose one game and not win your conference based on scheduling more difficult teams.

I want the best 4 teams, conference champ or not.

[Sam]

When the idea of selecting four top teams was debated, the need to be a conference champion was one of the criteria.

After the NCAA thought about it they removed that requirement with the understanding that sometimes conference champs luck out and have more losses than other teams in their conferences. So out went that idea of conference champs, only, in the top four.

The NCAA then agreed to have the top four teams, champs or not, based on their overall records during the year, play for the championship.

Western Michigan is one of two smaller school that could get a New Year's Day bowl game if they remain undefeated. But teams on their level will not be considered for the big prize at this time. If Western Michigan joins the Big 10 then it could play a more difficult schedule and be considered.

The Sugar Bowl usually takes the "different schools" so lets see if the game will be between Tennessee and Oklahoma/OSU or Western Michigan and Tennessee.

And food for thought: Should a team with a 4-0 out of conference record against weak opponents score a higher ranking than a team with a 3-1 or 2-2 record against stronger foes? SEC teams play smaller schools to rack up the wins and the smaller schools love the payouts. So should an SEC school who plays the Little Sisters of the Poor and Mrs. Butterworth's Cooking School be given more credit than an ACC school who plays Oklahoma, West Virginia, Southern Cal, Washington, Wisconsin, etc.?

Great thread and good thought processes.

[Caliyak]

23 hours ago, Sam said:

When the idea of selecting four top teams was debated, the need to be a conference champion was one of the criteria.

After the NCAA thought about it they removed that requirement with the understanding that sometimes conference champs luck out and have more losses than other teams in their conferences. So out went that idea of conference champs, only, in the top four.

The NCAA then agreed to have the top four teams, champs or not, based on their overall records during the year, play for the championship.

Western Michigan is one of two smaller school that could get a New Year's Day bowl game if they remain undefeated. But teams on their level will not be considered for the big prize at this time. If Western Michigan joins the Big 10 then it could play a more difficult schedule and be considered.

The Sugar Bowl usually takes the "different schools" so lets see if the game will be between Tennessee and Oklahoma/OSU or Western Michigan and Tennessee.

And food for thought: Should a team with a 4-0 out of conference record against weak opponents score a higher ranking than a team with a 3-1 or 2-2 record against stronger foes? SEC teams play smaller schools to rack up the wins and the smaller schools love the payouts. So should an SEC school who plays the Little Sisters of the Poor and Mrs. Butterworth's Cooking School be given more credit than an ACC school who plays Oklahoma, West Virginia, Southern Cal, Washington, Wisconsin, etc.?

Great thread and good thought processes.

1. this year is a great example of the non champion dilemma. how is this better than the computer bcs? 

2. I think all big schools should play a tougher non conference schedule. when was the last time Alabama came west in Sept? 

[Sam]

3 hours ago, Caliyak said:

1. this year is a great example of the non champion dilemma. how is this better than the computer bcs? 

2. I think all big schools should play a tougher non conference schedule. when was the last time Alabama came west in Sept? 

You are correct on both accounts. However, we now have a committee that will include each individual's prejudices against specific schools and conferences where the computer was totally objective.

The odds are low for Bamasux traveling out west (or north, east, south) to take on a big school other than in their opener where they will play a big name team on a neutral field.

Bamasux beat Southern Cal in Arlington, Texas to open the season before USC got their act together. The remaining out of conference games were played in Tuscalooser - Western Kentucky, Kent State and Chattanooga. An embarrassment to say the least. But a win is a win is a win.

We need the NCAA to have the big name conference teams play each other more in the future, like is done in basketball.

 

[Dwight Hottle]

Number 2 Clemson versus #3 Ohio State. Number 4 Washington versus #1 Alabama. Penn State & Michigan are out. 

[Catt]

My personal opinion is we need at least an 8 team playoff!

I watched Penn St beat Wisconsin; they're pretty good & the only team to beat the Buckeyes!

[Caliyak]

After this weekend of talking and arguing we have our 4 teams. But, I keep hearing that the Bowl game committees are getting in the way. The money they generate and the agreements they have with the NCAA is what is holding the football game back. So, until the bowl games take a step back, we will never get a true and real final 4 or elite 8. Money is the root........

[mrmacwvu1]

Needs to be at least 8 teams

[Catt]

2 hours ago, Caliyak said:

But, I keep hearing that the Bowl game committees are getting in the way. The money they generate and the agreements they have with the NCAA is what is holding the football game back. So, until the bowl games take a step back, we will never get a true and real final 4 or elite 8. Money is the root........

The answer is very simple!

Your playoff games would be played at the different bowl game venue

[Sam]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 3:49 PM, Catt said:

The answer is very simple!

Your playoff games would be played at the different bowl game venue

Catt, I thought the same way you do until someone from LSU told me that a bowl site may be able to have two games: their regular bowl and then the national championship game.

For this season, Raymond James Stadium in Tampa will host their Outback Bowl followed by the CFP National Championship game.

Of course, Atlanta gets the AFR bowl and one of the playoffs while Phoenix gets only one playoff game.

Now, would the Sugar Bowl get their game and then follow with the National Championship game? Just wondering. I would think the dates would be too close for comfort.

Your thoughts?

[Catt]

There's two problems

One there is too emphasis placed on going undefeated which is why we have teams playing "cupcake" out of conference games.

Second is this thought that bowl games are relevant!

I sorry but if you are 6 & 6 your season is done!

[Choporoz]

Hard to imagine that an 8 team playoff would lead to any less arguments or outrage....number 9 would be just as upset as Penn State is now.  I'm not sure we need another round.  However, I might change my mind, if the increased playoff field REPLACED the conference championship games.  Some great games, to be sure, but sorta meaningless in the big scheme....for reasons mentioned above.....Big 10 is acknowledged by many to have been the best conference this year...but neither Penn St., nor Wisconsin had a realistic shot of getting into the championship field.   Skip conference championship weekend if you want to add another round of playoffs.

[J Francho]

4 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Hard to imagine that an 8 team playoff would lead to any less arguments or outrage....number 9 would be just as upset as Penn State is now.

Yep.  Good point....

[Subaqua Adinterim]

So if you expand the playoff games, how many total games will some of these kids play in a season then?  Last year Alabama's kids played 15 games.  Playoff expansion would mean 16 games.

That's 5 more games than the national champs played in the 60s.   The concept of student athlete has changed and not to the benefit of the student part of the equation.  

I get it.  These kids are getting a free education; but the institutions, coaches and the TV networks are the ones making big $ and really benefiting, while some of these kids are crippled or in pain for life.

Ideally, someone that's concerned with the future physical wellness of these kids would use a 12 game maximum schedule as a starting point and work back from there, which may mean that the regular season schedule is 9 or 10 games and the playoffs would add 2 or 3 games to max out at 12.

Thanks for letting me rant.

 

[wdp]

FWIW, all the teams play cupcake non-conference schedules, it ain't just Bama. Looking at USC & Ohio St, they played some weak non-conference games too. To me, the difference is that the SEC is tough in conference, more so than other conferences. Plus, you can't deny how many NCs Bama has won over the last few years. 

That being said, I really don't like Bama. My alma mater is Miss State - I just hate losing to Bama almost every year. ?

[Catt]

12 hours ago, cutbait said:

So if you expand the playoff games, how many total games will some of these kids play in a season then?  Last year Alabama's kids played 15 games.  Playoff expansion would mean 16 games.

That's 5 more games than the national champs played in the 60s.   The concept of student athlete has changed and not to the benefit of the student part of the equation.  

I get it.  These kids are getting a free education; but the institutions, coaches and the TV networks are the ones making big $ and really benefiting, while some of these kids are crippled or in pain for life.

Ideally, someone that's concerned with the future physical wellness of these kids would use a 12 game maximum schedule as a starting point and work back from there, which may mean that the regular season schedule is 9 or 10 games and the playoffs would add 2 or 3 games to max out at 12.

Thanks for letting me rant.

 

How many games does any college baseball program play in a regular season?

Then we add regionals & super regionals just to get to the College World Series.

How many games does any college basketball program play in a year?

Then we add 64, 32, Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4, just to get to the Championship!

I coach PE at a private school that no longer has a sports program & still see blown out knees, broken bones, & even one concussion.

[Sam]

Money. Follow the money.

About ten years ago Skip Bertman, the former AD at LSU, told me that LSU makes over $8,000,000 for each home football game.

That is why, back then, all four of LSU's nonconference games were played in Tiger Stadium.

Today, there are "home and home" scheduling with the power conference teams. The non-power conference teams must travel for their big pay day.

Football is a violent spot. Moms, dads, aunts, uncles, grandparents, brothers and sisters know that if their family member plays football he will get hurt. No doubt about it. The severity of the injury is always unknown. But it will happen.

I used to go to a workout club and one of the guys I got to know played football for Syracuse back in the 60s. He told me that there are hundreds of cracks in his ribs from getting hit so often and there is nothing the doctors can do about it other than give him pain meds. And he was not a starter.

As a population, we get a vicarious thrill when one player knocks his opponent to the ground. The harder, the better.

If the money dries up then you will see changes in the way the games are scheduled and the number of boys who want to play the game.