Catching larger fish in a school of dinks .

[WRB]

1 hour ago, scaleface said:

You aint fishing where I'm fishing .

You right I am not fishing where you fish. Juevnile bass are typically 6" to 10" inch bass, 12"-14" or 1 lb to 1  3/4 lb I consider young adults and they definately will chase Threafin Shad schools off shore, risky for the juveniles. Rarely see or catch any juveniles off shore where I fish.

Tom

[Turkey sandwich]

There is some great info on here! A few points that I haven't noticed being discussed:

Seasonal patterns, comfort, and availability/ease of catching prey and basic water conditions are going to dictate behavior and location of fish.  For example, pre-spawn through post spawn, you're very rarely going to find 8" bass grouped in with 12"-14" bass and similarly, you're not going to be finding larger 17"-22" bass hanging out with the smaller males except during the actual spawning, and it's extremely unlikely you're going to be finding 8" bass grouped in with those big females while the females are gorging themselves pre-spawn.  Similarly, during periods of migration, it's typically larger fish leading the migration. 

The rest of the year, bass simply want the most comfortable water that will provide them the most efficient access to food (lowest energy expenditure/calorie intake).  The most dominant fish in that body of water will be found in the best places because they are the top of the food chain.  Those areas that  are the "best" will have the highest concentration of big fish, with smaller fish primarily settling in secondary areas, and so forth.  This doesn't just apply for a single species.   If a lake has a strong musky, pike, walleye, or largemouth population, those can all effect the best available feeding areas for smallmouth and thus where your smallmouth are going to be located, the frequency larger smallmouth will occur and how close they'll be grouped with smaller smallmouth/ compete with them for the same prey. 

 

If I didn't just make it seem even more complicated, I hope this helps. 

[scaleface]

On 11/27/2016 at 9:51 AM, earthworm77 said:

 

 

I find in my neck of the woods bass often school off of points and flats. If this is happening and I can't catch larger fish in the school, I'll back off of them and look for the first and closest piece of secondary structure.....usually it is a half casting distance or less away.

I think they are creatures of habit and move around quite frequently.....maybe not necessarily because smaller fish have moved in...being territorial, if they move, it is for another reason.

Yep , this sounds like the best advice . I do this but   need to concentrate more on it .  

[frogflogger]

 big baits - in the general area look for some small spot - then throw a - big bait

[greentrout]

You might be on a body of water that smaller bass are the norm. Keep count of the bass you catch and what on. Then look at your ratio of total bass caught to a big one of how you define it. Double digits? 2lbs., 3lbs. or 5lbs. and up ? From there hone your tactics to catch bigger fish. Only you can do that on your body of water.

Long ago I left behind the idea I had to catch big fish to enjoy my time out on the water. Good luck fishing & get a big one. 

[scaleface]

 

9 hours ago, greentrout said:

You might be on a body of water that smaller bass are the norm. Keep count of the bass you catch and what on. Then look at your ratio of total bass caught to a big one of how you define it. Double digits? 2lbs., 3lbs. or 5lbs. and up ? From there hone your tactics to catch bigger fish. Only you can do that on your body of water.

Long ago I left behind the idea I had to catch big fish to enjoy my time out on the water. Good luck fishing & get a big one. 

No doubt.  One lake in particular probably 90 percent of the bass I caught last year were between 12 and 15 inches . Then a decent population of big bass . Not many three lbers .  Its a great numbers lake plus a good opportunity to catch a big fish or two .

Hasnt everybody ran into a lot of small bass on major structure ?  Its pretty common for me .

[Paul Roberts]

On 11/28/2016 at 7:24 PM, WRB said:

... Juevnile bass are in the learning phase rarely hunt off shore and still experiment with catching prey. ...

 

On 11/28/2016 at 7:41 PM, scaleface said:

You aint fishing where I'm fishing .

Rarely, I suppose, is the key word here.

Whether juvenile bass use offshore regions is dependent on the same factors as for all fish: It comes down to food pay-off vs predation risk. Add food and the equation tips. Add cover and it tips further. Subtract cover and it tips the other way -toward the predators.

Bluegills (and some other sunfishes) have a common early life history behavior pattern that illustrates this well. Bluegill fry, after hatching, move offshore to feed on zooplankton in open water. They also do this to escape from mostly shoreline and cover oriented bass fingerlings already hatched. Why don't the bass fingerlings follow them out? Because, from my own observations, they are large enough to be fodder for the wolf-packs of juvenile bass that tend to occupy the semi-open water zones between dense cover and true open water. Mature bass come and go through both zones, but are safer than smaller fish so they are freer to occupy open water, unless larger predators in sufficient numbers exist out there. It's akin to a strategy game, carried out through opposing capabilities and limitations.

After the little bluegills grow a bit (and rapidly), and assume the laterally compressed bluegill shape (an anti-bass form), they come back shallow and tuck into cover (becoming the "bluegills" we all know) where they have an advantage over the bass in terms of maneuverability. Interestingly, and tellingly, in some waters without near-shore predators like bass, many bluegill fry do not migrate offshore, but remain inshore. Every water body is a bit different.

One other thing. It's apparent to me that little bass are more comfortable in open water around larger bass than are little bluegills. And this appears to be bc bass are more streamlined, faster, and probably harder for bigger bass to get a bead on. Not that bluegills are pushovers -far from it.

[WRB]

We tend to lump LMB into 3 groups by size and weight. Remember male LMB may never fall into the big bass group regardless of age, most males are 1 1/2 to  2 1/2 lbs as adults. It's only the females that get big, very rare for a male to exceed 4 lbs. There are a lot of small adult male bass.

Tom

[greentrout]

4 hours ago, scaleface said:

 

No doubt.  One lake in particular probably 90 percent of the bass I caught last year were between 12 and 15 inches . Then a decent population of big bass . Not many three lbers .  Its a great numbers lake plus a good opportunity to catch a big fish or two .

Hasnt everybody ran into a lot of small bass on major structure ?  Its pretty common for me .

You might also want to check out, if you haven't already, the stats on the bass tournaments in your state with the statewide bass clubs. You will find the avg. size, length, weight and time of avg. catch with biggest bass and more. They are usually your better than average bassers. 

[Paul Roberts]

5 hours ago, scaleface said:

One lake in particular probably 90 percent of the bass I caught last year were between 12 and 15 inches . Then a decent population of big bass . Not many three lbers .  Its a great numbers lake plus a good opportunity to catch a big fish or two .

Yeah, holes in the size distribution are pretty common nowadays. That 12-15" group could be the result of a strong natural year class, or to stocking. The bigger fish are older survivors, or those that managed to break a trophic threshold (catch and eat a population of prey too big for smaller bass to eat), although unless there's a lot of such larger prey, such fish rarely make for fishable numbers. Things do change over time though. Hit em while they're hot.

One of my best waters flamed out a few years ago, with the loss of the year class of big ones through old age and anglers who couldn't put the big ones back. Then the 1000yr floods came in 2013, and that's all she wrote, for the time being.  

[Turkey sandwich]

Now, to throw a wrench in things... There are certainly times where you will find fish of different size in much closer proximity and in specific areas.  This usually happens due to seasonal change (bass stacked in wintering holes), or changes in water conditions.

One of the most common changes in conditions that will impact bass distribution is a high water condition/rising water levels on a river.  These are considered great big fish conditions, but they tend to push the vast majority of fish into larger eddies and towards the shoreline due to swift current.  During these times, fish will be far less present feeding in fast runs or smaller eddies and the majority populations of all species will seek refuge from the fast current and feeding opportunities in the flooded/expanded shoreline.  These are days when large numbers, and multi species catches are more common, but it's also not strange to catch several 17-20" fish in close proximity to several 10-12" fish.  

A good example of this would be the ponds produced when rivers flood and then recede.  We used to refer to them as "snagging ponds" jokingly because of how dense the fish were crowded into them and how often you would snag fish even when unintentional.  In a 1-2 acre pond, it wouldn't be uncommon to catch bass, pike, musky, catfish, fallfish, quilback, and inadvertently snag a 20+lb carp or 40lb snapping turtle. Those small 1-2 acre ponds off of a large River would contain a huge chunk of the food chain.  

[WRB]

On November 27, 2016 at 7:17 AM, scaleface said:

Here a situation I find myself in frequently . I find a large school of small bass on good structure .It could be a point  , channel bend , hump... But in this instance lets say it is a long point .    I usually just keep catching numbers and hope that eventually I hook a big one or two . How do you try to get a few bigger bites ?

This is the original post asking how to get a few bigger bites.

The answer is be at the right place at the right time with the right lure presentation. IF dink bass are biting where you are fishing move, you are in the wrong place at that time. If you want to camp out on that point hoping for big bass to start biting you may have a long wait for reasons I have already addressed. Not every bass is on the same active feeding cycle, but the big bass where those drinks are now active are no longer active and it may be several hours before they turn on agian.....if you are in the right place to start with.

Not all structure is equal or holds a big bass population. Take a look at threads on how to read maps and notice that only a few areas are high % locations.

Tom

[Catt]

5 hours ago, WRB said:

This is the original post asking how to get a few bigger bites.

The answer is be at the right place at the right time with the right lure presentation. IF dink bass are biting where you are fishing move, you are in the wrong place at that time. If you want to camp out on that point hoping for big bass to start biting you may have a long wait for reasons I have already addressed. Not every bass is on the same active feeding cycle, but the big bass where those drinks are now active are no longer active and it may be several hours before they turn on agian.....if you are in the right place to start with.

Not all structure is equal or holds a big bass population. Take a look at threads on how to read maps and notice that only a few areas are high % locations.

Tom

Like everything about fishing... It's a guess!

That's why it's called fishing & not catching

[WRB]

15 minutes ago, Catt said:

Like everything about fishing... It's a guess!

That's why it's called fishing & not catching

It's a swag

[Catt]

12 minutes ago, WRB said:

It's a swag

No it's an educated guess but still a guess!

Not all bass feed at the same time!

One minute ya catching tighteyes & the next hawgs!

How do we know when to move?

We don't!

We guess & hope we're right!

[WRB]

It's called fishing.

[wdp]

Here's my 2 cents worth. I think a lot that's been said makes logical sense, but when it comes to fishing, sometimes it's hard to explain bass behavior. 

For example, I was fishing a spot one day that was a deeper depression next to 2 big fields of lily pads. It was probably only 4-5 ft deep, but also had a couple of sunken logs on it. I would throw a white pearl super fluke past that depression and twitch/jerk the fluke into that spot & I'd kill it. It was non stop action for about 20 mins or so. Bet I caught 15 or 16 one to two pounders right after another with a few misses mixed in there. Then all the sudden I hooked a hawg. Was prob 6 lbs or more.

My point, you never know. I was using that same bait & presentation the whole time. Then finally hooked a good one. Kinda hard to leave a spot when they're biting that good. I got no idea why that big one finally bit. And anybody that tries to explain it is just guessing. No way to know for sure. 

[dragger201]

I'll fish the schooling fish until I get a general idea how big any area they are covering..........once I have that figured out, I start fishing ambush points 5 to 10 yards around them...........using a sinking rattle trap and switching out with a soft lizard.  Will also try and fish under the school.........sometimes it works and sometimes it don't..........

 

[Jagg]

On 11/27/2016 at 9:36 AM, A-Jay said:

 

Edit : If the Bigger bass are actually EATING the smaller bass - that sort of changes things up a bit as well.

A-Jay

This has been my experience with a large school of feeding smaller to medium size bass. I'll often switch to medium-large bass colored baits. Lucky 13s, Spooks, Heddon Torpedoes, bass colored crankbaits, jointed swimbaits. Also, bass colored and Houdini colored soft plastics like grubs (curly tail and boot tails), soft swimbaits, flukes (donkey rig with one bass color and one Houdini). Haven't tried the swim gig in this situation yet, but look forward to it. I've caught not only big bass in TX Hill Country waters on this pattern but also stripers, wipers and flatheads. Seems the smaller bass victims are mostly Guadalupe bass and Guad hybrids. Found more than a few bass tails sticking out of the gullets when I get them to the boat.

[the reel ess]

You can use larger lures. Huge ones even. But you'll run the risk of days with no bites.

[Snipe Hunter]

I agree with using a larger bait. When I was a kid, I would pound the shoreline with a rooster tail and catch a lot of smaller fish. I was told that I'd always catch small fish if I always fished small lures. In those days Arborgast , Big-O, Heddon (to name a few) etc made the big lures and I started using them. I caught less fish but they were bigger fish. The little fish didn't go away, they just didn't hit the bigger baits. I no longer fish tournaments so it is easier to target bigger fish and not be too unhappy when I get skunked. I throw big baits, even for SM.

[Catt]

[Jagg]

16 hours ago, Catt said:

That's OK for LA bass, but you need something bigger for the TX bass.

[scaleface]

22 hours ago, Catt said:

Interesting , but I think it would be difficult to cast. The hooks look like junk  too .

[RoLo]

“Catching larger fish in a school of dinks”

 

It seems that I've dredged-up an old, but thought-provoking thread   

 

Short Answer:

Bass innately school according to year-class, so in my opinion, the best way to catch a trophy bass

among immature bass is to move ‘away’ from the school of juveniles.

 

Longer Answer:

Juvenile fish don't willingly intermingle with adult fish, and there are 2 good reasons why:

>> First & foremost, immature fish instinctively sense that they fit nicely in the mouth of a big predator.

>> In addition, immature fish are faster and more energetic than adult fish

       which are unable to compete with juvenile bass.

 

In deference to Timing & Territory, trophy adults and runt bass either eat at different restaurants

or eat at the same restaurant at different times.    WELL, as a rule 

 

Same Restaurant / Same Time

In saltwater, we’ve often found slammer blues (bluefish in the teens) lying on the bottom beneath

a school of busting choppers (2 to 6 lb fish). Although the mature and immature fish

might be separated by 15 feet, any crippled baitfish and fish chunks that flutter to the bottom

are vacuumed-up by bottom-hugging adults. This same scenario can play out with freshwater bass too,

but to a much lesser degree.  Since bass have no teeth they’re forced to swallow their prey whole,

which will leave the occasional cripple, but no residue forage.

Roger