Spots or patterns.

[Catt]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

If I catch bass doing this on one spot and go to another like it and repeat catching bass then continue to make a milk run to all the spots I know of with boulders on sloping clay banks I fishing a pattern. Easy for me because I know every rock in the lake.

Tom

That's fishing memories which according to you doesn't work!

[Hot Rod Johnson]

For me it's a no brainer, I fish my spots first ( 20 to 30 minutes each) to see if I can developed a pattern. The locations are always in close proximity. The pattern may be the lure choice, depth, speed, size or color. My rule of thumb is "FOUR" fish is a pattern, either at one location or six locations. I also use my electronics while fishing a location and while I am relocating to other areas. I start out with ten rod and reel combinations on deck and finally eliminate it to four combinations. Depending if its dawn or mid day my choice will change back of fourth. I also fish for "big Fish " first and later what ever I can catch.

[slonezp]

Is fishing the instinctual traits of the bass off the table?

[Hot Rod Johnson]

1 minute ago, slonezp said:

Is fishing the instinctual traits of the bass off the table?

I assume you are talking about seasonal patterns.

[slonezp]

Just now, Hot Rod Johnson said:

I assume you are talking about seasonal patterns.

No. Fish use their instinctual traits everyday to survive. Shouldn't we prey on their "weakness"

[Paul Roberts]

I understand what Tom's referring to. I fish small waters and often see anglers going right to the spots they caught fish from before, regardless of immediate conditions. In some waters, esp really small ones, this can actually work out well bc habitat is limited. Actually habitat is limited in nearly all waters, which is why "10% of the lake holds fish", and 10% of that gives up most fish. But, where it's a problem is when anglers cannot read conditions and don't know why fish were in a certain spot, or why they might not be there, be active, or require a different approach, now. Bass do move -use different locations- even in small waters. Then again, we can't always know and just have to check it out. In many of my small waters, certain spots always hold fish. I just have to figure out how to catch them, or take my lumps and try later. 

However, I don't think that spots, patterns, and memories need to be mutually exclusive. Certain spots do hold the majority of fish, or tend to have active hunters. Memories can help us very much in getting us there and understanding the layout. And patterns, in my mind, describe behavioral patterns based on environmental conditions and circumstances. I think we use all three.

[Hot Rod Johnson]

2 minutes ago, slonezp said:

No. Fish use their instinctual traits everyday to survive. Shouldn't we prey on their "weakness"

I personally haven't fished on their weakness.

[slonezp]

4 minutes ago, Hot Rod Johnson said:

I personally haven't fished on their weakness.

Maybe weakness is the wrong word. Habits might be a better term. If you have fished cover, you have fished habits; If you have fished structure, you have fished habits. If yu have fished during the spawn, you have fished habits. If you have caught fish feeding because they are hungry, you have fished habits. If you have caught fish because they are aggressive, you have fished habits. Are you sure you haven't preyed on their weakness? 

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

That's fishing memories which according to you doesn't work!

Never said you should forget what you have learned. What I was saying is don't get into a rut and always fish the same spot with the same lure, develop a pattern based on current conditions. 

You are a good pattern fisherman, try adding something constructive.

Tom

 

[Catt]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Never said you should forget what you have learned. What I was saying is don't get into a rut and always fish the same spot with the same lure, develop a pattern based on current conditions. 

You are a good pattern fisherman, try adding something constructive.

Tom

 

"Most weekend anglers fish memories, my term not Chris's, using your favorite lure returning to the spot you caught them last time out.

We all do this to some degree, it's our comfort zone. I have said many times over several years that fishing memories is a mistake"

I fish the same structure with some of the same lures!

A black-n-blue jig worked today as good as it did 45 yrs ago!

[Paul Roberts]

14 hours ago, slonezp said:

No. Fish use their instinctual traits everyday to survive. Shouldn't we prey on their "weakness"

We absolutely prey on their weaknesses. Which is why we can't always catch them! Because they have strengths too.

Conditions and circumstances (C&C) either aid or hinder them. And... they are all individuals -some more vulnerable than others. I have come to understand, in the small heavily fished public waters I frequent, that when we catch fish, the fish did as much wrong as we did right, and that the biggest factors are the current (and/or trending) environmental C&C. We capitalize on their mistakes. If we aren't in an ideal set of C&C (lighting obscured, vulnerable prey, actively feeding bass, known ambush points) we are left having to dupe, or trigger, them, or simply go home deflated.

Some of my waters are as small as a couple of acres. On high vis conditions I'll walk these waters and tally mature fish sometimes as many as 40 mature individuals visible around the pond; And those are the ones I see. I can cast nearly to pond center. Yet some days I can have a heck of a time catching! My ego can proudly say that I tend to catch more bass than most guys on my waters, yet I've also had my hat handed to me numerous times, at times by some kid with only one mis-tuned lure to his name. Nature has a way of letting us know whose boss. And C&C, while a BIG part of it, is not the whole story. I've developed a healthy respect for those "instinctual traits" that are becoming recognized in the fish behavior world as something very much akin to "intelligence".

Tom, thanks for firing up a good thread.

[Red Bear]

21 hours ago, WRB said:

No one suggested you should forget what you have learned. To successfully put a pattern together you use everything you have learned.

Tom

IE-memories

[A-Jay]

Just read through this one - a lot of gems in here.  However, I believe quite a bit of it would be some what challenging for a novice and even a some what experienced bass angler to wrap his head around - like me for instance.

After reviewing it all and after sitting back for a few moments to think about my own personal fishing, how, where & why I fish, what & where I fish (and have results), - I'll say that over the course of an entire season, I will have my best results when I can establish a Pattern while fishing water's I am familiar with (Memories). 

This doesn't mean I'm helpless on new water but by & large it usually takes less time to get a limit on lakes & in areas I'm familiar with. 

Clearly this gives me a Huge Appreciation for the Professional Tournament Anglers that can & routinely do dominate on lakes they are fishing for the first time - of course that is a relative term, as there is usually a few "Practice Days" before hand which I guess, Offers them an opportunity to "Fish Recent Memories"  

Good Thread.

A-Jay

[scaleface]

On 11/21/2016 at 9:40 AM, portiabrat said:

Zaldain won a tournament on one of the lakes I fish, and I recognized the spots he was fishing.  I can attest that he likes to fish in areas where there are lots of different depths and types of structure.

The really surprising thing is that he found many of the good, bouldery spots, which took me months to find.  Where I fish, you can have dozens of pieces of structure in a 5 square mile area that look very similar, but only a few will have big boulders on it.

I'm always skeptical ,this day and age , when pros can make milk runs  on hard to find spots on lakes they have little experience at  . Maybe someone supply's them with waypoints . 

[riverbasser]

8 minutes ago, scaleface said:

I'm always skeptical ,this day and age , when pros can make milk runs  on hard to find spots on lakes they have little experience at  . Maybe someone supply's them with waypoints . 

Agreed. I know some of it has to do with their experience and some to do with study and also the latest and greatest electronics don't hurt. But there are times when someone has an edge that to me can't be explained any other way than someone tipped them off. 

[Catt]

Pros getting tipped off?

Pros getting waypoints?

IDK!

That's me in the back of Larry Nixon's boat prefishing the 2001 Top150 on Toledo Bend.

He didn't mark a single waypoint!

Edited November 22, 2016 by Catt
Operator error

[A-Jay]

Just now, riverbasser said:

Agreed. I know some of it has to do with their experience and some to do with study and also the latest and greatest electronics don't hurt. But there are times when someone has an edge that to me can't be explained any other way than someone tipped them off. 

I have no problem believing that if one angler can locate a bass holding spot on his / her own - there is certainly reason to think another can do the same thing.

A-Jay

[Catt]

Y'all not understanding these guys will prefish most lakes for a week or two before a tournament. In 2001 Kevin VanDam first trip to Toledo he prefished for a month!

Give me 7 days on any body of water I'll figure it out!

[Paul Roberts]

I was thinking along the same lines, as to how the pros find fish in a range of lakes. There is a lot of pre-research -info available, esp on top lakes- done even before pre-fishing. If you know bass, get some ideas on forage base, peculiarities of particular waters, what's changed year to year, how things are doing lately, weather trends... and the rest is conditions and circumstances. Even then, no one wins, or even places, every time. I do know some consistent pros (KVD and Ike come to mind) are well connected and informed before they hit a lake. I doubt KVD needs the waypoints exactly, and if he got them he'd likely make better use of them than most, bc of his pre-knowledge, and experience.

[riverbasser]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

I have no problem believing that if one angler can locate a bass holding spot on his / her own - there is certainly reason to think another can do the same thing.

A-Jay

I don't disagree with that but like scaleface said its when they go right to this stuff that makes me question. Trust me I'm not trying to take anything away from the pro's experience. They are at the top of the game for a reason

We are getting off topic with this

["hamma"]

One thing no one has touched upon yet (that I noticed) is,.... Patterns come and go, they may come back again,.. but they do change. And it can happen in the blink of an eye

 Memory of a good spot or piece of cover usually doesnt. If its a good spot, it most likely is just that. Barring of course the seasonal changes. If you know what I mean

 A favorite big fish lake near my hometown is LOADED with coontail and its heavily populated with waterfront landowners. There's a row of docks that 75% of the year will be holding a monster bass, they all are over deeper than usual water for that lake and there's probably 8 or 9 of them. Ive caught some there, and several of my old bass fishing buddies have confirmed the same, with most of us getting a double digit. From november til after spawn, you'll only get average fish off them. But the rest of the year? You can be pretty sure theres a pig hiding up under one of them. and Im talking about the last 35 years or so, this has been the "norm" ,..could be that they are on the main lake and offer the right forage or, could be their positioning, not sure exactly what it is, just grateful.

 So?,.. which is better? a pattern? or a memory?

 I lean towards a pattern, they are consistent fish producers and can still offer a hog. Whereas a memory or "spot" will only offer a few fish, at best.  Beit a tourney or funfishung, the pattern will usually offer more hits

[riverbasser]

43 minutes ago, "hamma" said:

One thing no one has touched upon yet (that I noticed) is,.... Patterns come and go, they may come back again,.. but they do change. And it can happen in the blink of an eye

 Memory of a good spot or piece of cover usually doesnt. If its a good spot, it most likely is just that. Barring of course the seasonal changes. If you know what I mean

 A favorite big fish lake near my hometown is LOADED with coontail and its heavily populated with waterfront landowners. There's a row of docks that 75% of the year will be holding a monster bass, they all are over deeper than usual water for that lake and there's probably 8 or 9 of them. Ive caught some there, and several of my old bass fishing buddies have confirmed the same, with most of us getting a double digit. From november til after spawn, you'll only get average fish off them. But the rest of the year? You can be pretty sure theres a pig hiding up under one of them. and Im talking about the last 35 years or so, this has been the "norm" ,..could be that they are on the main lake and offer the right forage or, could be their positioning, not sure exactly what it is, just grateful.

 So?,.. which is better? a pattern? or a memory?

 I lean towards a pattern, they are consistent fish producers and can still offer a hog. Whereas a memory or "spot" will only offer a few fish, at best.  Beit a tourney or funfishung, the pattern will usually offer more hits

Following the patterns also add more "spots" and memories.

[WRB]

A very low percentage of weekend or recreational bass anglers can recognize a pattern quickly, most either never put a pattern together or a few figure out the pattern by the end of the day.

The next time out these same anglers start where they left off using the lures and fishing the same areas with some success if they are lucky or blank catching nothing and wonder why.

A creative positive discussion on how to develop a pattern is what this thread should be about.

Tom

[slonezp]

4 hours ago, "hamma" said:

One thing no one has touched upon yet (that I noticed) is,.... Patterns come and go, they may come back again,.. but they do change. And it can happen in the blink of an eye

 Memory of a good spot or piece of cover usually doesnt. If its a good spot, it most likely is just that. Barring of course the seasonal changes. If you know what I mean

 A favorite big fish lake near my hometown is LOADED with coontail and its heavily populated with waterfront landowners. There's a row of docks that 75% of the year will be holding a monster bass, they all are over deeper than usual water for that lake and there's probably 8 or 9 of them. Ive caught some there, and several of my old bass fishing buddies have confirmed the same, with most of us getting a double digit. From november til after spawn, you'll only get average fish off them. But the rest of the year? You can be pretty sure theres a pig hiding up under one of them. and Im talking about the last 35 years or so, this has been the "norm" ,..could be that they are on the main lake and offer the right forage or, could be their positioning, not sure exactly what it is, just grateful.

 So?,.. which is better? a pattern? or a memory?

 I lean towards a pattern, they are consistent fish producers and can still offer a hog. Whereas a memory or "spot" will only offer a few fish, at best.  Beit a tourney or funfishung, the pattern will usually offer more hits

Those bass are there because their instincts tell them to be their. Either the cover is right, the structure is right, the saturated oxygen levels, the food source. There are "spots" on lakes that you can fish, leave, and return a few hours later and they have replenished themselves. Maybe that's fishing memories, I believe it to be fishing their instincts. While I strongly believe in patterns, I believe more in a well placed bait

[F14A-B]

8 hours ago, Catt said:

Pros getting tipped off?

Pros getting waypoints?

IDK!

That's me in the back of Larry Nixon's boat prefishing the 2001 Top150 on Toledo Bend.

He didn't mark a single waypoint!

Wow. Larry Nixon was my hero in the 80's.

That dude flat out dominated the sport. Just about everything I ever learned about worm fishing, came from Nixon & Hannon. Everything I learned about patterns came early in the sport & became memories. I remember how brutally tough it used to be. Keep it simple stupid is pretty true in Bass fishing.

Fish are either eating or thinking about eating. ( except spawning fish ) anyway, I enjoy reading different opinions of Bass fisherman, it is always enjoyable. 

Must of been a special day with Larry Nixon..