Flipping/Pitching Jigs vs. TR punch rig

[BareHook]

I'm just getting into flipping and pitching and I'm wondering when to use a jig vs. when to use a punching rig (flipping hook, tungsten locked weight with a TR  rigged soft plastic)?

seems like either could be used, but the punching rig for really heavy cover?

[Onvacation]

Great question.  My assumption is density of the vegetation is the biggest factor, but I am looking forward to some responses. 

[Catt]

If ya can't fish a jig cleanly though any cover ya can't fish a jig!

I use both for flipping/pitching/punching all types of cover

[gulfcaptain]

Vegetation would be the first main difference.  But then head design also plays a role depending on the cover you're fishing.  Flipping and pitching around docks and rocks a regular jig or if needed football head would work better as the wider head would not get hung up in between rocks.  Loose reeds, a jig again would be a better option as you can also swim it through the reeds.  The punch rig is more of a dense vegetation drop it through reaction bite approach.  I've had bass eat a punch rig when reeling it in and due to the way the TR bait the need to swing and set the hook doesn't work as well when they eat it since you end up pulling the bait out of the fishes mouth opposed to them eating a jig and other then the weedguard you have an exposed hook.  You also have more hook with a regular jig and depending on the size of the jig less plastic to get in the way.  It's hard to fish a 1/4oz punch set up with a small trailer but you can do that with a jig.  Both have their time and places where they shine, but each is a different tool in the box.

[jr231]

Exactly. Dense vegetation for the pegged t rig. I like using the structure bug or beaver style bait. With the lightest amount of weight I can get away with so the bass doesn't have more leverage to throw the hook. 

BTW.. you don't need tungsten in this scenario... then again I don't really think you need tungsten at all. But, your money.. your confidence. catchIn bass is all that matters. 

[WRB]

Tungsten is 1/2 the size of a lead weight, sometimes size matters and some States have outlawed  lead weights.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, for me it's more about the trailer size, shape and what works best for heavy tullie cover or comes through weed mats clean.

Tom

 

[primetime]

If cover is really thick a texas rig will often get through easier, a punch skirt is used to give the bait more bulk, profile of a jig, and can be modified with rattles, color, and for some reason some days fish will want a punch skirt, some days they won't touch anything but a soft bait without a skirt.

If you can get a jig through the cover and you can buy punch jigs but I have only found a few that work in heavy weeds and they are expensive & can be tough to use since the Lead on a 1 ounce Jig makes it a large profile & really I like a Jig in Tall Grass, Wood, Hard bottom, and I almost always use a texas rig during the spring and summer when getting through mats, down here it takes 1 oz or even 1.5 to get through, and I prefer baits that slip through easy and not hang up. Ribbon Tails, even many creatures are hard to get through but baits like the BB Cricket, Otter, Rodent, Most beavers, Speed Craws, and the Punch baits like Culprits Incredicraw, RI beavers, Salt Craws, Flipping Tubes all go through easy. heavier soft baits like a Power Team Punch Bully can be good since you can get through mats with less weight, and one of the best punching baits is a Stick worm since 1/2-3/4 can work when you usually need heavier.

The key is practice, you get better every time you try it, start to realize when you hit a good stretch of cover, learn or get a feeling for when a slower fall rate or faster rate is better, and sometimes you need to let the bait soak, hop it twice, and I always peg the bait to the mat and bang it for a good 20 seconds every so often siince suspended fish will often feed on bait or craws stuck on the canopy.

Lily Pads are good for jigs cause you can swim them out, the thing I learned and I hired a guide when I first moved to Florida to learn how to flip/Punch, really its pitching but spending time learning what weeds hold fish, why and when, & proper technique, and when learning it is not easy. I would be in a boat with a friend who grew up pitching and he would catch 20 fish in a day and I would have 2. Makes you want to use a frog, but it starts to click. 

I practiced in ponds, I would stand up high and work on hitting the same spot over and over and try to make the bait enter without much splash, then learn how to weight the jig/bait, at first I relied only on line watching, also Tungsten is a must imo when over 1/2 ounce due to size, huge weights pop the mouth open and you miss fish at times, but guys who are good can put a 1/4 ounce Jig in a small bucket from 15 feet away 9/10 times, & that is really the key. If you are making noise, you are most likely spooking fish.

Best thing to do is watch videos. As far as baits, I consider most baits as Hook Holders since they fall so fast that fish just react most of the time, and hooking them is only half the task, getting them out is tricky, but you will catch bigger fish pitching all day then fishing moving baits as a general rule. It looks easy but it can be very boring, many days you go 2-3 hours without any strikes, start day dreaming and then you get slammed and if you miss it can really hurt. You may get 5 fish in one 30 yard stretch and spend  8 hours without action so it is not always fun....If you learn a lake, then it is fun because you know when to fish edges, how to fish the cover, and best to go with someone, enter a tournament as non boater but always tell the boater your skill level. I still consider myself average after a decade of living in Florida, I love pitching when I visit NY since it is so much faster & easier to find fish in the lakes, you don't need huge weights.

Color is black/Blue, Black red, anything with contrast, but you only need a few contrasting dark colors, gp, something with chart, something white if shad are stuck in grass.

Hope that helps. Some guys use the Jig Rig but I have not done well with the jig rig or swing jigs, nothing seems to work as well as a texas rig and I don't snell or do anything fancy, just tie a good knot and throw frogs, get bit, then work the area.

[primetime]

4 hours ago, Catt said:

If ya can't fish a jig cleanly though any cover ya can't fish a jig!

I use both for flipping/pitching/punching all types of cover

That Strike King Swing Jig is basically a Texas Rig only with the head of a jig. I agree, some people can get a jig through anything but I have found places where it is just frustrating even with a medlock or the Dirty Jig you have there, or is that the Oldham jig?

I like the Salt craw, Punch skirt and hook you have in the pic. that is perfect. What size hook is that? 2/0? Looks small but I actually started using standard heavy guage Offset Round bend hooks since those barbs drive me nuts, but the Owner Twist Lock hooks make life easy....

I think the key for the Jig is the angle it lands right? I find certain weeds or mats that need more than an ounce and have alot of loose weeds, then the weedguard collects weed, but I have seen guys do things with Jigs that I just don't have patience for.

If Bass want a Jig, you think a punch rig of same weight, same trailer looks that different? Just curious. I like the hook up ratio better, but I also think Tungsten is a must when you go over 1/2 ounce, a 1.5 ounce Lead weight would pop the mouth open of an Alligator. 

How do you tie your punch rigs? Is that one of the cones for making spinners that you tied it off on? I just used the brass cones that weigh .3 oz to make them heavier than the regular punch hub. 

I have not tried the SK swing jig, do they make that over 1/2 ounce? Barlows sells the bullet weights with a clip where you can attach any hook on them, Mustad now makes the Fastach, I was thinking about getting some but I still want to figure out how to pitch with a power shot. Can't figure that out, I get twists and snagged & quit within 10 minutes. 

I also will never use any Tungsten weight without inserts, Lost 2 huge fish this year because Tungsten is too sharp, even the "Smooth" expensive one's, I go Silver with inserts and coat the line now. Sensitivity doesn't matter for pitching, I never noticed Tunsten making a difference except for size it is key. Just my take. I use that same set up with the salt craw. Been working for years.

[jr231]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Tungsten is 1/2 the size of a lead weight, sometimes size matters and some States have outlawed  lead weights.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, for me it's more about the trailer size, shape and what works best for heavy tullie cover or comes through weed mats clean.

Tom

 

Yea and much more expensive. 

These are the same weight. Lead vs tungsten. No doubt the tungsten is smaller. But really not that much. No where near worth the money IMO.  I guess if you have the money. Ha-ha must be nice ! All I said was you don't NEED. 

I guess If there is a lead ban you don't have much choice. I haven't had to worry about that.. 

[primetime]

On 11/17/2016 at 4:45 PM, Yeajray231 said:

Yea and much more expensive. 

These are the same weight. Lead vs tungsten. No doubt the tungsten is smaller. But really not that much. No where near worth the money IMO.  I guess if you have the money. Ha-ha must be nice ! All I said was you don't NEED. 

I guess If there is a lead ban you don't have much choice. I haven't had to worry about that.. 

You can find Tungsten on Ebay where a 1 ounce weight is $3, 5/16 is $1, and you can buy 12 packs of 1 ounce for 36 dollars. I would never pay the regular prices from Retail since the mark up is crazy.

I also call the companies who sell Tungsten and ask if they have blemishes, or overstocks. You can get lucky with companies like Vike, Picasso etc.

I went crazy when I found blemishes and ordered 50 of each size over 1/2 ounce since they were as cheap as brass.

[Catt]

@primetime

I've been flipping/pitching/punching matted grass for close to 50 yrs!

That's a 1.25 oz Terry Oldham's Eye-Max Jig, these are the most effective grass jig made period!

The pictures do it no justice since that is a 5" Hawg Craw & a 4/0 hook. That's a Texas Rigged Jig!

The swing jig is 3/4 oz & a Rage Tail Lobster.

The key to fishing grass is to stay as vertical as possible with your presentation. The farther from the boat you flip, pitch, or punch the more grass you're having to work through.

The second key is finesse, most angles try forcing the jig through the grass which is all wrong. Ya gotta finesse your jig throw the grass!

"If bass want a Jig, you think a punch rig of same weight, same trailer looks that different? Just curious."

The bass do!

[primetime]

17 hours ago, Catt said:

@primetime

I've been flipping/pitching/punching matted grass for close to 50 yrs!

That's a 1.25 oz Terry Oldham's Eye-Max Jig, these are the most effective grass jig made period!

The pictures do it no justice since that is a 5" Hawg Craw & a 4/0 hook. That's a Texas Rigged Jig!

The swing jig is 3/4 oz & a Rage Tail Lobster.

The key to fishing grass is to stay as vertical as possible with your presentation. The farther from the boat you flip, pitch, or punch the more grass you're having to work through.

The second key is finesse, most angles try forcing the jig through the grass which is all wrong. Ya gotta finesse your jig throw the grass!

"If bass want a Jig, you think a punch rig of same weight, same trailer looks that different? Just curious."

The bass do!

The key to fishing grass is to stay as vertical as possible with your presentation. The farther from the boat you flip, pitch, or punch the more grass you're having to work through.

The second key is finesse, most angles try forcing the jig through the grass which is all wrong. Ya gotta finesse your jig throw the grass!

"If bass want a Jig, you think a punch rig of same weight, same trailer looks that different? Just curious."

The bass do! 

 

 

Thanks for the tips. I have a habit of staying too far away from targets for fear of spooking fish & I guess I need to work on a vertical entry. I have a habit of always "Pitching" when I should be truly Flipping which only gives you so much line, so being close makes sense. 

I ordered some Oldham jigs a few years ago after reading about them, but the ones I have are not as compact which nice. I guess 1.25 is better than 1 oz & I only have some Hack Attack jigs in 1.25 which I only like around Kissimmee grass & easy stuff but I always have felt a Jig gives you a better Hook set. Many guys have told me the Jig is different than a punch skirt & like everything else can be a game changer. 

Thanks again for the help. Florida Grass fishing is always a challenge & I think we called Oldham direct but I had a friend order them, just remember they were expensive but I guess they are worth it since I remember having to wait almost a month due to demand.  

Good Stuff. Cold front Coming Sunday so Getting ready for some time on the water tomorrow. Maybe I can get the 14lber I often dream of catching. I guess I can fit some new tackle in one of my boxes. I hope his Min for free shipping is not $100 or I will need a new box.

[Catt]

We need to clarify something & that is the type of "grass" being fished.

Aquatic Plants:

Submergent: have most of their structures below water. Hydrilla, Milfoil, Coontail

Emergent: have a large portion of their shoots, leaves or flowering structures out of the water. Kissimmee grass, Maidencane, Bull Rushes, Cattails, Tules.

Floating-leaf: ave floating leaves on the surface of the water.  They include the water-lilies, some pondweeds

Free-floating: these non-rooted plants include the duckweeds, hyacinth, common bladderwort and often coontail.  Coontail is sometimes rooted, but it is dislodged easily by wave action and will continue growing in a floating mass, or tangled in with other plants.

Each offer it's own specific set of challenges when fishing jigs.

The problem aint that your jig can't get through the "grass", it's your line.

Think about! If I take a 1.25 oz jig & throw it 15 yards from the boat without tying on my line it'll sink to the bottom every time no problem!

[primetime]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

We need to clarify something & that is the type of "grass" being fished.

Aquatic Plants:

Submergent: have most of their structures below water. Hydrilla, Milfoil, Coontail

Emergent: have a large portion of their shoots, leaves or flowering structures out of the water. Kissimmee grass, Maidencane, Bull Rushes, Cattails, Tules.

Floating-leaf: ave floating leaves on the surface of the water.  They include the water-lilies, some pondweeds

Free-floating: these non-rooted plants include the duckweeds, hyacinth, common bladderwort and often coontail.  Coontail is sometimes rooted, but it is dislodged easily by wave action and will continue growing in a floating mass, or tangled in with other plants.

Each offer it's own specific set of challenges when fishing jigs.

The problem aint that your jig can't get through the "grass", it's your line.

Think about! If I take a 1.25 oz jig & throw it 15 yards from the boat without tying on my line it'll sink to the bottom every time no problem!

Good stuff as always. You do a great job of explaining techniques & you do it in less than 500 words. I am working on that as well. Your last analogy is a good one. I have never heard it explained like that but it makes perfect sense.

I just watched some videos last night of guys flipping Jigs yesterday & they all broke down the tricks just like you did. 

Thanks again for always adding good advice, I look forward to improving my skills this winter, especially my precision & learning the right names of weeds. I know which ones grow on hard bottom, and have a decent undertanding of which areas should be good, but as you know, Fishing is a never ending learning experience.

This is what I am usually tackling most of the year.