crankbait (to rattle or not to rattle), and other optimizations.

[FishingMN]

rattle:           I like using a squarebill crankbait that dives to about 4 feet and have always wondered if they are better with or without the rattle.   I personally prefer the rattle, but i've noticed that most come without rattle, even some of the more expensive $20+ models.   Is a silent crankbait preferred.   I am sure there are situations where one works better than the other and it all depends on fish attitude.  But what I am really trying to understand is which is intended setup and if I only had one with me, which would be best to have.   

 bait:         I've been using a strike king kvd 4s pro model with trokar hooks and builtin rattle.    How does this crank compare to others?   

hooks:       The 4s comes with trokar hooks, that I seem to loose a few fish on until I tried other hooks.  Do you think this is just in my mind, or are the stock trokar hooks not that good?

line:        Here's one I am really curious about.  How much better is fluorocarbon over braid?   Does fluorocarbon invisibility really increase bite counts?

[jr231]

The only thing fluorocarbon has on braid is that it sinks.. and that it stretches some (if that's what you like) , I personally don't. I like the no stretch instant hook up with braid, also braid has superior sensitivity . And casting distance. 

People who believe fish will only bite with fluorocarbon are nuts. I've used just braid all season and have caught some big fish (for my region). Bass bite thick wire spinner baits, A-rigs, wacky rigged worms on a EWG, t rigs with unpainted lead weights, swimbaits with keel weighted hooks. The list goes on and on.. the only time I'd use a FC leader is to get some depth on a light bait. 

[FishingMN]

Thanks for your comment!  I do prefer braid for usability, but..

well on slow presentation bait there is no doubt in my mind that a less visible line helps. I started out fishing only braid and did great, but when fishing with friend using floro, they out fished me 2 to 1... until admitted and switched to floro.  The slower the presentation, the more it helps.  Drop shot on braid would be really tough.

Now, on cranks, because its a moving bait, that I haven't figured out yet. Not sure if floro would help get that 30% extra bite.

 

[scaleface]

I use both and cant really tell you when or  why . I was fishing Red Eyed Shads  earlier this week deep , hopping it like a worm and catching fish . Started out with the Rattlinng version and when the fish quit hitting it and were just bumping it I went with the silent one and the bite picked back up . I only have 1 silent RES and it is defective  , the weight is loose so it is now a one knocker .  It works great .

[Scarborough817]

I use both as well for me it depends on water clarity and conditions. now colour selection is a whole other topic.

Rattles:

if the water is more muddy then i tend to use something with rattles, this is because i find it gets hit more which is likely because it's easier for the bass to locate. Rattles also seem to do very well when the fish are being aggressive but this is likely because they are just feeding.

Silent:

I tend to use silent in clearer water because i feel it is more of a visual cue for bass and they are used to sight feeding anyway. i have caught fish on a silent crank in muddy or off colour water but not as well as they do on the rattling version

Edited October 20, 2016 by Scarborough817

[jr231]

42 minutes ago, FishingMN said:

Thanks for your comment!  I do prefer braid for usability, but..

well on slow presentation bait there is no doubt in my mind that a less visible line helps. I started out fishing only braid and did great, but when fishing with friend using floro, they out fished me 2 to 1... until admitted and switched to floro.  The slower the presentation, the more it helps.  Drop shot on braid would be really tough.

Now, on cranks, because its a moving bait, that I haven't figured out yet. Not sure if floro would help get that 30% extra bite.

 

I think the experiment with your friend might have been coincidence. But whatever you have confidence in will definitely help you succeed. I agree about the drop shot. 

I don't use SK cranks. They get enough of my money Through soft plastics, spinnerbaits and jigs. I like rapala and bomber. In my experience, the rattle excels when you find active fish... but when they aren't In the feeding mood I've had better luck squeezing out bites with the silent cranks. 

Tro-kar makes nice hooks... I'm not sure about your particular model.. but I do know trokar is top notch. 

[FishingMN]

ok.  Thanks.  Lots of helpful info.  I'll check out those other cranks and maybe try silent cranks when the fish are inactive.

[smalljaw67]

1 hour ago, FishingMN said:

rattle:           I like using a squarebill crankbait that dives to about 4 feet and have always wondered if they are better with or without the rattle.   I personally prefer the rattle, but i've noticed that most come without rattle, even some of the more expensive $20+ models.   Is a silent crankbait preferred.   I am sure there are situations where one works better than the other and it all depends on fish attitude.  But what I am really trying to understand is which is intended setup and if I only had one with me, which would be best to have.   

 bait:         I've been using a strike king kvd 4s pro model with trokar hooks and builtin rattle.    How does this crank compare to others?   

hooks:       The 4s comes with trokar hooks, that I seem to loose a few fish on until I tried other hooks.  Do you think this is just in my mind, or are the stock trokar hooks not that good?

line:        Here's one I am really curious about.  How much better is fluorocarbon over braid?   Does fluorocarbon invisibility really increase bite counts?

Since when has a Strike King crankbait come with Trokar hooks?????

[FishingMN]

its the strike king pro model 4s.  it clearly indicates trokar hooks.

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=33027876

unless this is a Dick's Sporting Goods exclusive??

[scaleface]

Line visibility does make a difference . People who fish clear water use smaller line than those who fish muddy water . They do this because they get more bites not because they were told they have to use light line .

[junyer357]

I like a rattling crank in really dirty water especially and also in spring in craw colors. Other than that i jave no preference til fall/winter when i go to mostly shad raps. I prefer the thinner small profile more. 

As far as braid vs flouro i always use flouro on cranks and will not use braid. Flouro just holds up better to abrasion for me throwing into junk and riprap, i prefer the stretch to slow down hookset for treble lures, and also its sinking ability.  I usualy use either straight floro or braid with a flouro leader on slow lures like senko, worms, and jigs. I have gone to striaght braid on them before after breaking off or retying leader due to abrasion and noticed a drop off at times in bites. Even in the dingy coosa waters i fish mainly. In clearer waters im sure it makes a bigger diffrence. 

[jr231]

You don't need to use light line if you use braid because the diameter is much smaller. If the fish were so cautious of seeing the line they wouldn't ever bite A-rigs or any of the baits i mentioned above... 

[A-Jay]

3 hours ago, FishingMN said:

its the strike king pro model 4s.  it clearly indicates trokar hooks.

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=33027876

unless this is a Dick's Sporting Goods exclusive??

As a Huge fan of several of the SK hard bait - and especially the squarebills - How is it that I MISSED this one ?

Thanks for sharing it.

Very interesting - AND - after looking at Several other vendors - Dick's seems to be the only one offering (or even indicating) that the bait comes with Trokar Trebles.

 btw - I've not used that treble and am completely sold on the Mustad KVD short shank.

A-Jay

[FishingMN]

26 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

As a Huge fan of several of the SK hard bait - and especially the squarebills - How is it that I MISSED this one ?

Thanks for sharing it.

Very interesting - AND - after looking at Several other vendors - Dick's seems to be the only one offering (or even indicating) that the bait comes with Trokar Trebles.

 btw - I've not used that treble and am completely sold on the Mustad KVD short shank.

A-Jay

So, the trokar hooks that come standard on the sk square bill seem quite sharp and have good penetration, but I feel like they need a bigger barb.   I was getting a few bass shaking free with the included trokar hooks.    Switching to a different treble hook with better barbs I noticed I stopped losing fish.   I will have to look at the Mustad KVD short shank.

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, FishingMN said:

So, the trokar hooks that come standard on the sk square bill seem quite sharp and have good penetration, but I feel like they need a bigger barb.   I was getting a few bass shaking free with the included trokar hooks.    Switching to a different treble hook with better barbs I noticed I stopped losing fish.   I will have to look at the Mustad KVD short shank.

Mustad KVD 1x Strong 2x Short Triple Grip Treble Hook ~

Full On Game Changer for me.

A-Jay

[FishingMN]

4 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Mustad KVD 1x Strong 2x Short Triple Grip Treble Hook ~

Full On Game Changer for me.

A-Jay

So what size would be appropriate for a sk kvd 4s squarebill crank bait?  I am going to order them.  If you know what size would be good for a strike king jerkbait, I would be interested as well.  I think I actually have just one of these on one of my crankbaits, and forgot what it was, I was puzzling over that the other day.. it works so well.

[A-Jay]

12 minutes ago, FishingMN said:

So what size would be appropriate for a sk kvd 4s squarebill crank bait?  I am going to order them.  If you know what size would be good for a strike king jerkbait, I would be interested as well.  I think I actually have just one of these on one of my crankbaits, and forgot what it was, I was puzzling over that the other day.. it works so well.

The Strike King Pro Model Series 4S Crankbait ~ comes with #6's.   On that style of crankbait. I prefer to plus size the front hook up one to a #4 and use the same on the back.  If I'm on larger bass (or they are really choking the bait) I'll plus size front & back.

As for the KVD Jerkbaits - (solid bait btw) both the 2 hook & the 3 hook models, as well as the Deep version, come stock with #4's. 

I only use the larger 3 hook bait and I replace the stocks with the same size short shanks #4's.

I have played around a little with the red version of that KVD treble - just to add a little color & mix it up - had mixed results - jury's still out there.

A-Jay

 

[MassYak85]

With the line visibility thing, I would say this. A lot of times when cranking it is a reaction bite. Whether it's a square bill deflecting off a shallow tree, or a lip less being ripped out of grass, the fish are hitting so quick I doubt they pay much attention to the line. Now if you are cranking sparse cover in clearer water, where the bass might have time to follow and examine the bait before committing, personally I feel that line might make a difference there. 

[scaleface]

The wire in A-rigs and spinnerbaits are necessary . I'll wager every last penny that if the wires were invisible they would catch more fish .

[jr231]

Problem solved. (;

[smalljaw67]

23 hours ago, FishingMN said:

its the strike king pro model 4s.  it clearly indicates trokar hooks.

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=33027876

unless this is a Dick's Sporting Goods exclusive??

I learned something today!!!! You are correct, it is exclusive to Dick's.

[FishingMN]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:01 PM, A-Jay said:

The Strike King Pro Model Series 4S Crankbait ~ comes with #6's.   On that style of crankbait. I prefer to plus size the front hook up one to a #4 and use the same on the back.  If I'm on larger bass (or they are really choking the bait) I'll plus size front & back.

As for the KVD Jerkbaits - (solid bait btw) both the 2 hook & the 3 hook models, as well as the Deep version, come stock with #4's. 

I only use the larger 3 hook bait and I replace the stocks with the same size short shanks #4's.

I have played around a little with the red version of that KVD treble - just to add a little color & mix it up - had mixed results - jury's still out there.

A-Jay

 

So the 4s and the 1.5's come stock with #4 size.  KVD says on the cranks to upgrade to #2's.. so long as they are the 1x strong, 2x short, elite, etc..

on the jerkbaits he says doing the same would through off the balance.. so stay with a #4 (which is what it comes with) but go to the elite 3xgrip, long, and NOT 1x strong.  The thinner wire will keep the weight lighter.. the longer length will make it a bit easier to get a hookup.   1x wire would make it heavier and make the jerkbait slowly sink.

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, FishingMN said:

So the 4s and the 1.5's come stock with #4 size.  KVD says on the cranks to upgrade to #2's.. so long as they are the 1x strong, 2x short, elite, etc..

on the jerkbaits he says doing the same would through off the balance.. so stay with a #4 (which is what it comes with) but go to the elite 3xgrip, long, and NOT 1x strong.  The thinner wire will keep the weight lighter.. the longer length will make it a bit easier to get a hookup.   1x wire would make it heavier and make the jerkbait slowly sink.

Whatever you think ~

I passed on what works for me - I am in no way saying that I know more or have more success than the best Bass Angler in recorded history.

But after re-reading your response - I think there are some similarities.

A-Jay

 

[WPCfishing]

On 10/20/2016 at 0:19 PM, FishingMN said:

rattle:           I like using a squarebill crankbait that dives to about 4 feet and have always wondered if they are better with or without the rattle.   I personally prefer the rattle, but i've noticed that most come without rattle, even some of the more expensive $20+ models.   Is a silent crankbait preferred.   I am sure there are situations where one works better than the other and it all depends on fish attitude.  But what I am really trying to understand is which is intended setup and if I only had one with me, which would be best to have.   

 bait:         I've been using a strike king kvd 4s pro model with trokar hooks and builtin rattle.    How does this crank compare to others?   

hooks:       The 4s comes with trokar hooks, that I seem to loose a few fish on until I tried other hooks.  Do you think this is just in my mind, or are the stock trokar hooks not that good?

line:        Here's one I am really curious about.  How much better is fluorocarbon over braid?   Does fluorocarbon invisibility really increase bite counts?

If your throwing square bills in rocky shallow water you don't need rattelers. The bill will be banking off rocks and making all the noise you'll need to trigger a strike. 

Throwing them over grass or cabomba is a different story. You will want the rattleler. I use square bills and traps for this approach often. Check out the Super Nova series Rat L Traps.

I use P-Line CX 15# green or 40# Power Pro Braid with a CX leader.

I don't think the line you use makes much of a difference since it's a reaction Strike you're after.