Backlash, line too thin?

[Jschen]

I'm relatively new to the baitcasting reel and put on some 12# mono backing followed by PP 30# braid and then red label 8# fluoro last night.  Went out this afternoon and was getting major backlash on cast.  I read that baitcasters are designed for heavier lines and that maybe the 8# fluoro is too thin and digging into itself causing all the backlash.  Does this sound correct? 

My setup is a lews tournament mb on a 6' 6" Berkley Lightning Shock MH rod.  I use it for pretty much every presentation except finesse (ned rig and drop-shot).  If I need to replace the fluoro what do you think I should use?  Should I just cut the fluoro and go with the braid?

Thanks

[new2BC4bass]

I'm in deep doo-doo if 8# fluoro is too thin.  I have 8# mono and co-polymer on several of my Medium power rods.  I've got 6# mono and co-polymer on at least 3 baitcast reels that I use for light weights.  Absolutely no problems with backlashes when I do my part.  Fluoro does have more memory than many monos and co-polymers, but in 8# you should be fine. I've got some 10# fluoro on one reel that doesn't cause any backlash problems.  Now 10# braid would probably dig in to beat the band.

BTW, why did you put braid in the middle?

That rod is rated 1/4- 1 1/4 oz. so I'd guess that you are throwing a weight that should load the rod.  Trying to cast lures lighter than a rod is rated for can cause problems.  Especially to those not pretty good with a baitcast reel..  What are you trying to cast?

[A-Jay]

Does Relatively new mean you don't know how to set up the reel properly or what the proper casting technique for a revolving spool is ?

If so, start with some good information because knowing how to Set up your reel properly and why to adjust it in a certain way can go a long way to helping you learn to cast effectively.

There are several instructional BR videos on how to set up your reel & learn to cast it right here ~

http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-videos/rods-reels-videos

btw ~ ditch the braid & leader and fill your reel with some decent 15 lb mono - Trilene Big game is reasonably priced.

A-Jay

 

[Jschen]

Thanks guys, I have the reel set up per instructions, bait barely drops with the tension knob, brakes are set to full even though the backlash appears to happen during casting and not when it hits the water.  I try to tether the spool while it's casting but I still get terrible backlash.

I am planning on throwing most everything with this set-up except for the finesse type stuff.  I've been throwing crankbaits and jigs.  Pitching senkos near the banks.

I put on the braid for when I fish heavy cover - punching and frogging in weeds and lily pads.  I put on the FC leader since the lake I normally fish at I do underwater baits and wanted less line visibility and have the line sink.  

When I bought the reel from BPS they did spool it with mono and I was doing okay with that.  Maybe I'll just go back to mono or try a different FC.  Maybe I spooled the FC in the wrong direction (I spooled it where the line was coming off the top)?  I was throwing with just braid in the backyard and things seemed to be better.  Maybe I spooled too much FC as a leader?  I'll try a 15-20' leader and see if that alleviates some of my issues.

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

[new2BC4bass]

Line conditioner is your friend.  

 

[MickD]

Sounds like your leader is so long you're casting with the leader not the braid.  You only need a leader of a few feet, the length of the rod max, IMHO.  I usually use about 5 feet.  

30 pound braid is not too light or too heavy, although some advocate heavier.  Make sure you don't have the reel overfilled to the point that the line slaps the reel frame as you cast.  Don't try really long casts at first, and use forgiving lures, like lipless cranks and spoons until you get pretty skilled, then spinnerbaits, and not spinnerbaits up wind.  

[beardown34]

I'm newer to the master bait casting game as well. I bought a Berkeley Lightning (not shock) Medium rod to go with a MH 13 rod I already had. I found the Berkeley Medium to be almost as stiff as the 13 MH. I've since replaced it with a 13 M and now can cast 1/16 T rigged worms without backlashing. I have found that the lighter I go, the more exaggerated I need to be with setting the tension knob. Like to the point that the lure barely moves even after shaking the rod tip. 

With my MH, I had a light bulb go off when I started tossing 1/4oz lures and heavier. I fish small residential ponds so I mostly use 3/16 or lighter lures. That caused me immense frustration while trying to learn baitcasting. The MH rod only made things harder. My point? Maybe try heavier lures, or a lighter powered rod. And again, my experience was the Berkeley lightning rod seemed to fish heavier than its rating. 

I use 40#PP with no leader. I tried some left over 20#PP one time, and saw my cavitron buzzbait snap off and go flying into the darkness. I'm assuming it was a line digging problem because the line snapped on the spool side of the line guide. On the times my 40#PP has dug in and cut my cast short, the line did not break. I may eventually try 30#PP but I'm good with 40# for now. 

[sgibby88]

I don't have any med rods yet but my 6`6 mh fast I cant cast anything lighter than 3/8 without having any issues.But anything heavier than that and I'm fine. Learning rather quickly with trial and error though lol. I myself am rather new to baitcasting as well

[Jschen]

You're probably correct on having too much of a leader line.  I cut off all the FC and spooled some 10# mono and had very little backlash in the fishing I did today. Only problem today was the fish weren't biting for me.  Going to stick with mono for now and maybe if the future I'll try FC again.

[beardown34]

You mean a mono leader on top of the braid? Or you just spooled the entire thing with mono 

[fishnkamp]

Your mono backing and 30 pound PP is fine on that reel. Add a 4 foot leader of 8 to 12 pound stiff mono like P Line CXX in moss green or Berkley XT to learn with.  That rod is fine. I own two of the 6'6" Med Moderate ones and use them for throwing 1/2 to 3/4 rattle traps for bass and stripers in the fall( when the bait leave the main Chesapeake Bay and enter our tidal creeks, they chase the bait into the shallower and warmer water). Your rod should  work well with plastics and jigs,even some larger spinnerbaits, but while you are learning make sure the lures you throw weigh between 3/8 and 1 ounce.  That falls well within the mid range of the rod. 

[MickD]

9 hours ago, Jschen said:

You're probably correct on having too much of a leader line.  I cut off all the FC and spooled some 10# mono and had very little backlash in the fishing I did today. Only problem today was the fish weren't biting for me.  Going to stick with mono for now and maybe if the future I'll try FC again.

I would not go back to FC for the casting part of the line. While others swear by it I have never found any brand that works as well on a baitcaster as mono.  The difference in any supposed attribute of FC vs mono is simply, for me, not worth the hassle.  Same for spinning.  I use it for leaders for bottom fishing because it has a specific gravity 1.5 times that of water, mono is about 1.0.

[Big Bait Fishing]

you just  need to pratice your casting , spool up some cheap mono and get your reel dialed in , THEN , put on some braid with whatever leader you want or whatever line you decide , if you are not proficent with the reel and casting ,  line choice is not gonna matter ...

[Glenn]

Sounds like you know how to set up your reel, but you're probably over-powering your cast.  Watch this video - especially the latter part. It shows you how to make casts with a properly adjusted reel.  Might want to watch the first part too, because there may just be something that you haven't adjusted yet (such as internal brakes).

 

[Jschen]

Thanks for the help guys!  I'll keep practicing.  It is probably a mix of inexperience with the bait caster and FC as I'm having less problems with the mono.  Sounds like I'm doing the leader incorrectly as well but no big deal right now.

[Chrisko]

The transition from spinning to bait casting reels, for me, has not been easy!  Having grown up with spinning reels my whole life, a few years ago I decided to buy a bait caster (a lower to mid level Shimano as recommended by the sales guy).  I didn't know how to set it up, didn't read the manual (it was a fishing reel!) and proceeded to hate it.  I wasn't the slightest bit accurate, found it impossible to deal with, and hated that I had to cast with one hand, change hands and then start reeling it in. But the sales guy told me that baitcasters are designed to be reeled in with the right hand - what did I know. I think that reel is 5 years old, until this year, it's been used maybe 2-3 times - until frustration and poor results and endless backlashes made me put it down.

 

At my wife's request, we decided to take up musky fishing this year! My research indicated that to musky fish, the use of a "bait" casting reel was the norm/standard and that many of the Musky level reels only came in right hand versions. Of course, I recalled my last experience buying a casting reel and what a waste of money it was.  Knowing my wife would not have the patience or be willing to put in the time to learn to use a casting reel, we got her a Shimano Stradic 5000 Series spinning reel (she is plenty capable with it and spinning reels in general). I forced myself to learn how to use a Shimano Tranx 400 (which I bought with the left hand retrieve).  In preparation for a guided trip to Lake St. Claire, she agreed to learn how to cast the casting reel for musky.  It took her some work, some practice and then a little more time with the guide - she can do it. Can't get any where close to the same distance or accuracy that she has with the spinning reel.  When she bait casts, she uses a left hand retrieve (she is right handed). In the guided trips, they all have right hand retrieve - which she doesn't like, I don't either, but I can deal with it.

 

The big, heavier, thicker lined musky reels are much easier to cast than the smaller bass sized casting reels.  Of course, musky fishing, the lightest lures are over an ounce, and more often in the 3 to 8 ounce range - which supposedly helps, as does the heavier line.

 

This summer, I promised to teach myself how to cast my smaller bass fishing shimano bait caster (Callisto I think it is). And everyday (that I fish) I commit to an hour or more on it, I end up with a high degree of frustration.  I am less accurate, can't cast as far (not that this is a big deal 95% of the time), can't control my distance nearly as well, and experience frequent backlashes (and yes, I have taken the time to learn to properly set up these reels).  So a huge majority of my time bass fishing, I am using a spinning reel/rod . . . and my catch rate to hours spent fishing is far better than when I use a bait caster.

 

But I am of that age where I grew up casting a spinning reel - it's what I knew, know, felt comfortable with. I am still not very good with a bass sized casting reel, but am working hard at getting better. I finally broke down and ordered a new one (Shimano 17 Scorpion DC) in hopes that it will make my enjoyment better.

 

In the end, you don't need a bait caster.  There really isn't anything a bait caster can do that one cannot also do with a spinning reel set-up - at least fishing for bass.  It simply boils down to individual preference and what one is most accustomed to and most familiar with. 

 

Growing up, we went on 10-day canoe trips in the Quetico. We each brought two rod/reel combos (in case one broke). The same spinning reel would cast light weight rapalas, heavy spoons, spinner baits and everything in between for bass, walley and pike. We didn't miss many fish, caught tons of fish and were never limited by not having a heavy spoon specific reel, or jerk bait rod, or anything like that.

 

The companies that make these products do much better convincing us that we need 12 rod/reel combos and we need to change them out based on all sorts of scenarios - full sun, partial shade, early morning, dusk and leap year status . . . And that all of us who own/owned 6 - 12 spinning reels now have to replace them with some other design reel or the fish are going to stop biting!

 

I am not criticizing anybody. I am just as guilty with way too much equipment.

 

In the end, my wife caught her first musky (46") on a 5 foot, ultra-light rod/spinning reel combo using 4 pound mono.  I didn't have the heart to tell her that it doesn't count because she wasn't using the designated rod, reel, special line, and 130 pound fluoro leader!

 

By the way, the next musky that hit for her, was another low 40" musky. She was using a large musky top water bait, 400 Series Daiwa reel (guide owned), St. Croix musky rod, 80 pound test braid, 130 pound fluoro leader. Ironically, using every single piece of the right equipment - that fish still got off the line!

 

I can't say which style of reel is actually better, universally. I can say that any given person can be better with one style vs. the other, and that is largely going to be based on their earlier experiences fishing, combined with their willingness to put in the time to learn a new trick on "new" technology.

 

My point, there is no real reason and no true/real benefit that one reel type is better than the other. Both types are very capable of performing in a very wide range of bass fishing environments very successfully. Both have their idiosyncrasies and characteristics to get used to and become familiar with. So, pick what you know best, what you feel comfortable with and that which will lead to the least frustration, most fish and most enjoyment.

 

Someday, I'll have grand kids, in all likelihood, I'll start them out of bait casters . . . and maybe even force them into using the unnatural right hand retrieve while being right handed kids!