Not all giant bass are smart

[WRB]

During the years we enjoyed a good population of 10-12lb bass could catch a DD bass during summer night tournaments, only know of 1 16 lb bass caught at night during the summer in SoCal. Our summer night tournaments only run for 6 hours usually 8P to 2A, otherwise SoCal public lakes are closed 1/2 hr before sun set, open 1/2 hr after sun rise, year around. This gives you about 6 Saturday nights a year to night fish.

Tom

[DrMarlboro92]

23 hours ago, Paul Roberts said:

There seems to be a mythology that develops around BIG fish: that they are smarter, craftier, etc... I think it speaks to our ego, and I don't mean "ego" in the derogatory; Instead, ego in the motivational sense. It sure feels good when we catch one.

I think BIG fish are instead rare and in many cases represent individuals that have broken trophic thresholds taking them out of the normal range of most angler's methodology (think BIG swimbaits) and ability to delay gratification. This would describe me much of the time.

I remember reading a while ago (and I think that someone has already spoken about everything I'm about to say in this thread, but I will restate it anyway) that just because a bass is big, doesn't mean it's old, or smart for that matter. Quite a bit has to do with how aggressive the fish is. If a fish eats more, and gets there before the other fish, this would in turn make us reason that a bigger bass would be more aggressive. It would also mean that the big fish would be more likely to be caught if you are in the right area. 

I believe the problem lies in harvesting. I think that more potential huge fish get caught and harvested while they are "decent" fish, lowering the number of aggressive bass in a body of water. 

If you look at fisheries like briery creek here in VA (a place known for absolute monsters until recently when the bass were running out of food due to the sheer number of monster bass) it has a slot limit of 14-24 inches. Less bass are kept despite VDGIF asking for the sub 14 inch fish to be kept, meaning hooking into a 5+lb bass is the norm. You will fill the boat with fish that size and he ticked because you didn't find the 10 pounder. The only reason I can figure is because the aggressive, potential huge fish aren't removed too early due to the slot limit, making for better genes, more aggressive fish, and a better fishing trip.

Edit: forgot my example. 

About 2 years ago me and my dad were fishing briery creek, and we caught the same bass 3 times, in the same spot, just with different baits a few hours apart each time. It was 5lb 4oz, and had a big knot of scar tissue on his bottom lip, and a big gash on his side. Is this bass stupid? No, he's just aggressive. This is what gives the aggressive fish theory credence to me, but again, it is just a theory.

[Catt]

Big bass are far from stupid but they have biological needs that I can use to my advantage.

Bass have to eat & bigger bass have to eat more or more often.

Bass have to spawn at least once a year

Bass have to have a tolerable dissolved oxygen level in the water where they live.

Those three will help me understand where the big bass will be located.

Big momma (alpha female) will be located on prime structure & in prime cover; she is setup on structure & in cover that allows her to see all directions at once. Maybe not 360 but it'll be as close as they feel comfortable.

She will have multiple areas that have sufficient food to last the present season.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Catt
Operator error

[N Florida Mike]

There was a 4 pounder I caught 8 times in my lake.I nicknamed him hard luck.He was on the skinny side.

["hamma"]

   In southern clines I would agree that a bass may get big in a "shorter" amount of time considering the norm, but up here the growing seasons are shorter.

 Any bass that reaches dd size up here is old, and its usually been caught before. Yes,...it does require all of what Catt listed and it does open the door for anglers to have a better shot at it. But that door gets smaller and smaller every year that fish gets harrassed on a bed, or stings its mouth hitting a crankbait. They have a certain "ability" to mask their presence. And I think its this;

 I know a angler who everytime he goes out fishing he's pounding the shoreline, with both the front and console lcr's on, his trolling motor on high, with his stereo blaring classic rock music while tossing a rattling jerkbait. No matter what direction the sun is beaming from, or how the cover is situated.,... And he says to me one day "There's no big fish in here, I've never caught one" while we were fishing one of (what I call) my trophy lakes. Many anglers up here are guys that just fish to get out of the house, away from the chores, etc. They buy the expensive boat, have all the latest and greatest gear. and think they cant be outfished, or bested so to say. And he is certainly one. I've tried to deter his antics but he wont listen, so,...... se la vie

   That lake does have big fish in it, I've caught them there, even a dd ,..But I fish it in a very different manner. I take the stealthy approach, no lcr transducer clicking away, I know where im at, and dont need to have a lcr on,... trolling motor only used to re-locate myself,.. as I use the wind to move me along, making not even the slightest sound, I fish quiet lures like a jig and craw, doused with a scent to mask the human scent,. and I fish it slowly and effectively, with the sun to my back. Many times this "tactic" has yielded me some impressive fish. Even In tournies as a non-boater I had to ask the boater to shut off the lcrs, fish in the direction I want, with minimal trolling motor use. no livewell pumps running etc. during "my time",... And the times I did catch the lunker for the day? The boater not only stated that he learned something, but that it was my approach that got me that fish.

 If you fail to adhere to the "laws" (for lack of a better term) of a big fish's domain up here? you will fail, miserably, and consistently. That trophy you seek for the wall? will remain a mystery,.. I've seen it in action, and proved it over and over again.

 Am I some kind of pig "pro"?,..., not by any means. A bass biologist? heck no,.. Im just a angler that has adhered to the teachings I read, experienced, and utilized that has yielded some success. Enough to realize that "hey,...that worked!" and duplicate it when ever possible.

 Maybe the big fish you guys are catching down in the southern clines aren't that old, or even bright.  But up here? They have to be old to get that big, and smart to continue on, or,... they just dont get that big to begin with. Most guys up here mount a 8 lber on the wall as soon as he can get his thumb on her lip. I slip that pretty girl back in the water,... 

[jr231]

I really liked the above post ^ the only thing that threw me off was the "back to the sun"  that would cast a shadow towards where you are fishing. I've always fished with the sun at my face.. 

["hamma"]

58 minutes ago, Yeajray231 said:

I really liked the above post ^ the only thing that threw me off was the "back to the sun"  that would cast a shadow towards where you are fishing. I've always fished with the sun at my face.. 

The reason I do this is: When you cast your shadow over a fish they do see you. BUT!,.... when your facing the sun they see you coming from afar, full on.  (sequay to a bass tv commercial) "Hey guys!!, look at this guy coming down the bank on the brand new Ranger,",.."Hey!! ,.. nice boat buddy, but I aint buyin that senko today pal",......

  They "only" see you with the sun to your back if, and only when, the shadow passes over them. Keep your shadow away from them, and viola, your almost invisible. Yet, another reason to make longer casts.

  Also, as most of us here know,.. they dont like the sun, looking into it isn't one of their favorite things to do. They avoid doing so at all costs.   So when your under sunny skies and flippin, pitchin, or skippin docks,...Keep the sun to your back, and they aren't even looking for you, or at you, to begin with. But very important,... make sure to stay back a bit, so that shadow doesn't hit them. I was so amazed at how this works when I first applied it, that it stuck.

 SSHHHHHHHH! its a secret, dont tell anyone,.....lol

 P.S. thanks for reading and liking my post

[Catt]

I think it's more the angler aint that smart!

As has been mentioned most anglers will not fish the dense cover where big momma lives. 

Nor will they put the time in to wait big momma out!

There's an underwater ridge on Toledo Bend that I believed with all my heart held double digit bass. After 12 yrs of 8-9 lb bass a buddy of mine caught a 12.7 & since that ridge produced 8 more DDs.

I was happier that he was because it confirmed what I believed!

[WRB]

Any angler can catch a giant bass with one lucky cast and manage to land the fish.

This isn't about matching IQ of anglers verses bass, bass would lose.

To catch big bass consistantly or even more daunting catch giant bass more than ounce takes dedication and understanding why these rare bass are where they live and why. I have spent a lifetime fishing for big bass, studying their habits, observing, spending countless hours trying to catch them. I believe the reason that I have been successful is giant bass live where I fish and being dedicated in trying to catch these special fish for decades.

Tom

["hamma"]

11 hours ago, Catt said:

I think it's more the angler aint that smart!

As has been mentioned most anglers will not fish the dense cover where big momma lives. 

Nor will they put the time in to wait big momma out!

There's an underwater ridge on Toledo Bend that I believed with all my heart held double digit bass. After 12 yrs of 8-9 lb bass a buddy of mine caught a 12.7 & since that ridge produced 8 more DDs.

I was happier that he was because it confirmed what I believed!

GOOD POINT,.. CATT !

You couldn't be more dead on right, with the above posting.

 Case in point, please,.... bere with me a moment.

   Back in 95 I prefished the hudson river with my team partner, we were both prefishing for the mass bass state team fishoffs. He was to be a boater and I a non in said tourney. So, on the way out there, we discussed that most of the prefish time was for him, as I may not get a shot at "my" areas depending on who's boats Id get partnered on, and he was assured, he would get time on his areas. Which was mostly my idea. And we did just that, I picked one area, Cementon's point, as it is the largest point, and close to the catskill launch, which, was the take-off. I found fish there and was confident.

 Day one of the tourney, I get on this guy's boat, and he asked about "my area" I told him I only prefished one area, and its just downstream a bit, named Cementon. Astonishly, he states thats his only area as well, so we head there right away. We start fishing the furthest out in the river part of the point, and we are both using a jig and pig. His lure is straight out black, and mine a custom greenish that I tied with a bit of white on it. He's kinda frontending me as there's a huge boulder there, and he wants to hit it before I get a shot at it.

 He tosses in their 2 times, and doesn't even get a sniff, as he's noticably moving his lure to fast. I get my shot at it, first pitch, I hook into a 2+, next pitch a 4, he gives me a dirty type look, next pitch, a  6 lber,.. lunker for the 2 day tourney. And on that river? thats probably the biggest largemouth in its entirerty,...He states that he's done there, and were moving to his next spot.

LOL, next spot? he only had one, a half hour ago! 

   My point is, Catt,s statement that most anglers wont put the time in to wait big momma out.,... is dead on.

   That guy was in such a hurry, he passed up the best spot on the whole river that day, with just 2 casts at it.

    I really didnt fish that spot long either, but I didnt have to, she was there for a reason, and so was I. I was prepared to hit that boulder as much as I could no matter what, as thats the biggest eddied spot on that whole point, and I got a couple nice fish off it during prefish.
  If more anglers would just slow down, take the time to "thoroughly" fish a spot, with the right lure, at the right time. Their efforts might just be rewarded, and put the fish of a lifetime on their wall. I ended up with 500 bucks in my wallet, and made the 12 man state team! and I can credit that one lunker, for it.

 You spend all kinds of money on the best boat, best gear, etc. Why not put forth the best efforts?  Whats your hurry? The biggest fish in that water body isnt going anywhere. She's in there, be smarter than her.

LMAO!,..or is it that,.. you spent all that cash, but wont spend the time,... telling the rest of us anglers something? lol

 Ok,..Ok   im sorry, that shot was kinda unfair...but it was right there, and I know many of you were thinkin the same.

 Its as my dearly departed Dad used to say,.... Sometimes you just need to slow down, and see the forest thru the trees.

 

[Catt]

One of the most misunderstood aspects of consistently catching bass & more importantly big bass is the thought that you have to cover a lot of water.

If ya fishing unproductive water it don't matter how much water ya cover!

Ya gotta understand the structure/cover big momma is in & how to fish it EFFECTIVELY!

[Mainebass1984]

  As a northern angler that prefers to fish for what I would call trophy bass I felt compelled to offer my opinion on the subject. In my opinion trophy "giant" bass in northern New England are usually pretty well educated. I would call a northern New England bass over 7 lbs a giant. It takes many years for a largemouth bass to attain that weight in the short growing seasons. In ponds with the conditions that are conducive to producing giant bass it still takes 10 years or more to produce a 7 lb plus bass. I have aged many bass for the State of Vermont and aged several bass from Maine in my own time.

7 lbs 6 oz aged at 15 years old

7 lbs 1 oz aged at 11 years old

6 lbs 8 oz aged at 10 years old

7 lbs 13 oz aged at 12 years old

7 lbs 14 oz aged at 11 years old

7 lbs 2 oz aged at 9 years old

9 lbs 1 oz aged at 19+ yeard old. Growth rings became to close to age beyond 19 years old but a strong possibility it was several years over 20 years old.

I don't think that these fish which survived a decade or more did so without becoming conditioned and more difficult to catch. Anyone who takes a cast can catch a 7 lb bass but to do it consistently year after year takes time dedication and perseverance. For sure you can figure out very specific patterns that produce year after year. That is what I try to do every time I go fishing. On a typical year I spend 100-120 days on the water from April to November. I prefer and most often fish from dawn until dark30. It is not easy to catch giant bass in the most northern extremes of its range, or catch giant bass anywhere. There is no doubt in my opinion they are conditioned, more wary, harder to entice then smaller younger bass. In the past 6 years I have caught 26 largemouth larger then 7 lbs including 5 8s and 1 9. Giant bass are harder to catch then smaller bass especially after they have had a decade or more of being educated. If anyone thinks catching 7 lb plus bass (actual 7 lb plus bass, not guessing) in northern New England consistently is easy and those fish aren't harder to catch then I would be more then eager to listen.

Catching giant bass takes a lot of time, dedication, effort, money, being mindful, and a willingness to learn.

[Bass Turd]

19 minutes ago, Mainebass1984 said:

  As a northern angler that prefers to fish for what I would call trophy bass I felt compelled to offer my opinion on the subject. In my opinion trophy "giant" bass in northern New England are usually pretty well educated. I would call a northern New England bass over 7 lbs a giant. It takes many years for a largemouth bass to attain that weight in the short growing seasons. In ponds with the conditions that are conducive to producing giant bass it still takes 10 years or more to produce a 7 lb plus bass. I have aged many bass for the State of Vermont and aged several bass from Maine in my own time.

7 lbs 6 oz aged at 15 years old

7 lbs 1 oz aged at 11 years old

6 lbs 8 oz aged at 10 years old

7 lbs 13 oz aged at 12 years old

7 lbs 14 oz aged at 11 years old

7 lbs 2 oz aged at 9 years old

9 lbs 1 oz aged at 19+ yeard old. Growth rings became to close to age beyond 19 years old but a strong possibility it was several years over 20 years old.

I don't think that these fish which survived a decade or more did so without becoming conditioned and more difficult to catch. Anyone who takes a cast can catch a 7 lb bass but to do it consistently year after year takes time dedication and perseverance. For sure you can figure out very specific patterns that produce year after year. That is what I try to do every time I go fishing. On a typical year I spend 100-120 days on the water from April to November. I prefer and most often fish from dawn until dark30. It is not easy to catch giant bass in the most northern extremes of its range, or catch giant bass anywhere. There is no doubt in my opinion they are conditioned, more wary, harder to entice then smaller younger bass. In the past 6 years I have caught 26 largemouth larger then 7 lbs including 5 8s and 1 9. Giant bass are harder to catch then smaller bass especially after they have had a decade or more of being educated. If anyone thinks catching 7 lb plus bass (actual 7 lb plus bass, not guessing) in northern New England consistently is easy and those fish aren't harder to catch then I would be more then eager to listen.

Catching giant bass takes a lot of time, dedication, effort, money, being mindful, and a willingness to learn.

Great post. I'm curious how you age bass. Could you explain?

[WRB]

Agree That giant northern strain LMB living in the southern region is 10 lbs, above the Mason Dixon line where lakes freeze over I would agree 7 to 8 lbs is a true giant the further north the bass lives. Florida strain can't survive in lakes that freeze over unless warm water 45+ degrees is available from a power generation plant. I set my bar at 15 lbs several years ago because 12 to 14 lb bass were being caught weekly where I fish, but not today. A teener 13 lbs+ FLMB strain F1-F3 qualifies as a giant bass everywhere they live. Giant bass are all old females...big momma's that have good survival skills or they wouldn't live long enough to be big momma's.

The saying there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots, applies to bass.

Tom

 

[Mainebass1984]

18 minutes ago, Bass Turd said:

Great post. I'm curious how you age bass. Could you explain?

There are two methods for aging bass that are commonly used. The least expensive method that has been used historically is pretty simple. You remove a scale 3 or 4 rows down directly below the most anterior portion of the spiny dorsal fin. The scale is stained a deep blue then mounted on a slide. At this point it is most commonly viewed on a simple microscope. Under differing magnifications you can count the growth rings like you would count growth rings on a tree. Each growth ring indicates a years growth. The space between the growth rings vary each year but generally get closer together as the fish becomes older and its growth rate slows down. Some scales are more difficult to age then others. In recent years dorsal spine aging is becoming more widely used and accepted. In that method the second spiny dorsal fin is removed as far down as the base as possible. The spine is then soaked in a special solution to remove any tissue on the spine. After all the tissue is removed then the spine is taken to a very specific machine that slices the dorsal spine microscopically thin.  Once the cross section is sliced it is then stained and mounted on a slide like before. Again it is aged as your would age a tree. It is scientifically accepted that the second dorsal spine aging method is now the method that should be used and is more accurate.

[Bass Turd]

2 minutes ago, Mainebass1984 said:

There are two methods for aging bass that are commonly used. The least expensive method that has been used historically is pretty simple. You remove a scale 3 or 4 rows down directly below the most anterior portion of the spiny dorsal fin. The scale is stained a deep blue then mounted on a slide. At this point it is most commonly viewed on a simple microscope. Under differing magnifications you can count the growth rings like you would count growth rings on a tree. Each growth ring indicates a years growth. The space between the growth rings vary each year but generally get closer together as the fish becomes older and its growth rate slows down. Some scales are more difficult to age then others. In recent years dorsal spine aging is becoming more widely used and accepted. In that method the second spiny dorsal fin is removed as far down as the base as possible. The spine is then soaked in a special solution to remove any tissue on the spine. After all the tissue is removed then the spine is taken to a very specific machine that slices the dorsal spine microscopically thin.  Once the cross section is sliced it is then stained and mounted on a slide like before. Again it is aged as your would age a tree. It is scientifically accepted that the second dorsal spine aging method is now the method that should be used and is more accurate.

Thank you very much. Very interesting....

[soflabasser]

Lots of good responses.Those who know how to put in their time wisely are usually the ones who are the most successful at consistently catching big bass.

[clh121787]

The bass caught by Mike Gilbert in the working class zero video "seventeen" was caught again 2 or 3 years later and only weighed 13 pounds 

[WRB]

If a big female bass lives 15 years it's max weight would be approximately 12 to 13 years old.

Like every living creature big bass don't die over night old age catches up slowly.

Just because a big bass is the Alpha in the group doesn't mean it's chasing down anglers lures! All giant bass may not be smart but they are wise old females.

Tom

[Bassin' Brad]

On 10/12/2016 at 5:20 AM, Catt said:

Aggressive does not mean they feed first!

Smaller bass are willing to chase your lure down...big momma will not!

Given the choice of a 4" shad 10 feet away and a 8" shad 20 yards away big momma will choose the closest

Minimum output...maximum intake!

Of the measly 35 double digit bass I've caught only one was during pre-spawn, all the rest were during summer.

Hey @Catt....hope I'm not being to nosey here, but of the 34 DD bass you caught in summer how many of those were caught at night? If you don't mind me asking. 

[Catt]

2 hours ago, Bassin' Brad said:

Hey @Catt....hope I'm not being to nosey here, but of the 34 DD bass you caught in summer how many of those were caught at night? If you don't mind me asking. 

 

If memory serves me right 26 ?

[J Francho]

There's was a fish I caught three times, all on a black/blue jig (same jig, in fact).  Each time it was a slightly different weight, but around 6 lbs.  It had a very distinctive spot on it.  After that season, I never caught it again.  I assume someone caught it and kept it.

[Tw3ak]

Observations from pay to fish ponds.

First year all fish caught were tagged. And moved to new pond. Next year bass were continued to be tagged. And moved.

Third year very few bass were caught and moved. Pond drained, 55% fish remained never caught once.