First boat

[fishnkamp]

I 

[fishnkamp]

Let me explain why he did what he is doing. The previous owner built a floor system in it. He made the mistake of using pressure treated 2x4s. Over time the acid or chemical leached out of the would where it was in contact with the rivets and aluminum of the hull. When he was given this boat it had tiny pin holes around the rivets and hull. So he removed all of the finger smears of silicone around each rivet inside and out, added 5200 around any suspected spots (nearly the entire bottom on the inside).  Next he purchased several gallons of bedliner paint , I believe it was from Rustoleum, and coated the inside and out with it effectively giving it a completely sealed surface. We shall see tomorrow how well it was done, as that is when he intends to splash it.  He has since created an entire labyrinth of  wooden cross members making a frame to support a new floor. He made the entire floor support system out of Azek or as he calls it a man made plastic wood. I believe it is intended for outside decking. Anyway his floor is complete and he has built storage, installed wiring, accessories, a bilge pump, trolling motors,etc. His job tomorrow will be to off load it from the trailer then  watch it as it its tied to the dock awhile. Next if it stays dry then he will go for a spin for a while, if it stays dry he can go home and start final painting and numbering.

 In your case I would fill my holes as needed and install my options. Next splash it for some quick testing. If it stays dry then I would not bother with a coat of 5200 during the winter, but the idea of using the bedliner paint and a roller may be a good one. A simple couple of coats to seal it all, and then some nice paint to make her pretty sounds good and it will help protect it.  The boat Ed sold before he started working on this one was a mid sixties Grumman V bottom aluminum boat.  Man Rosie the Riveter knew how to install rivets in those boats!!!  It weighed almost nothing for a 14 footer, but I think the rivets accounted for at least 2/3 of its weight. 

[Anon2578455]

Would you use the bed liner paint outside or inside the boat? 

[fishnkamp]

If you test the boat and have no leaks I probably would just give the boat a coat of bedliner paint and then a coat or two of a light grey paint. Something close to the color it is right now. Then you could give the area that is blue a nice fresh coat of dads favorite color. I like the blue, but he might like it another color. I would not bother painting the inside unless you feel like it. Just a note, Ed goes over to Tractor Supply Company to get his paint. he likes to use an exterior grade oil base paint. It takes a lot longer to dry but it has worked out well. I believe they will have a farm implement grey or some tractor color blue like a ford Blue.I think his red might be like an International tractor red..

[Anon2578455]

I think I may do a water test this weekend.  I will fill it with a hose up to the lip in the boat where is sits in the water. My dad always liked the turquoise and white combos on classic cars. I was thinking turquoise up top,  white on the bottom unless it's too hard to paint the bottom of the boat.   

[thomas15]

pete, I was going to suggest you check out tinboats but see that you already have an account. Lots'o discussion on this specific issue. You will be hearing about a product called Gluvit. This seems to be very popular so see what they have to say about it.

I spoke about using synethetic wood to mount the transducer. Another poster mentioned that the boards are available at boat supply places, I bought mine at Cabelas, I think it was $20. So what I'm suggesting is fill in the existing holes with JB Weld. Then use the 5200 to seal/calk/glue the board to the transom, this will seal the existing holes (now filled with JB Weld) and will seal the two new holes used to mount the "wood" to the transom. Then, you mount the transducer to the board using screws that will not go all the way to the transom. This will allow you to add or subtract any number of transducers or speedometers to the transom without having to drill holes in the hull. I have heard that the 5200 will bond the "wood" without screws and for a boat with a small motor that is probably ok but mine has a little more speed so I opted to use screws plus 5200 to mount the wood to the boat.

[Anon2578455]

OK I found a plastic transducer mount for 17 dollars on amazon. Most people seem to mount these horizontally.  My question is the previous depth finder has about seven holes vertically as they mounted cables to the boat as well. Should I order two of these or what's a better solution.  I don't get off of work for awhile so I will post a picture later. 

[thomas15]

Mount one just up from the boat, about 1/4 inch from the bottom. . It should be horizontal. Just put a clamp at the top where the wire goes over the top of the transom there is not real need to clamp the wire from the transducer that many times (7) it's just a wire. I don't have anything securing the wire on the outside of the boat transom, only on the inside after it goes over the top and into the splashwell.

I will take a picture of it tomorrow evening.

[Anon2578455]

Here is what I would like to remove.  They used 7 screws and then one hole for the wire to enter the boat.  And then the other holes on the sides of the boat,  I have no idea what the other holes are for but I also want to remove those black plastic clips screwed in. So I need to patch 8 holes in the rear and around 12 on the sides.  I am half tempted to find a tig welder.  I did buy the transducer mounting board so I will install that when it arrives. 

 

 

[thomas15]

Personally I would not tig weld this, it is just sheet metal and there is plywood sandwiched between the inside and outside skin of the transom. Use epoxy. I say this as an individual who's son is a welder and we have a tig welder in our garage.

I would still remove the three screws that attach the transducer bracket to the transom and install the fake wood board that I spoke about. If you can remove the old transducer wire and install the new through the hole that is already in the transom (under that cover at the top) then go ahead and leave it. The two clamps are in my opinion overkill but since they are already there no problem keeping them just seal them with the 5200 when you reinstall the screws. However, the connectors on my lowrance transducer cables would probably not fit through anything less than probably a 1" hole so I just have mine looped over the top of the transom.

I'm going to try to post a picture of my arrangement tonight this will probably clear up a few questions in your mind. BTW, a slow moving boat it is ok to have the bottom of the transducer significantly lower than the bottom of the boat as your picture indicates but for something that moves faster that would create unnecessary drag and would splash water at speed. This will be clearer when I post a pic.

[fishnkamp]

thomas15 has it right. I would remove the old transducer cable, the screws and hold down clamps. That pass thru cover is a nice way to cover the hole the cable goes in the hull. That looks like a Hummingbird transducer which have smaller connectors on them. If your  dad's "new old" fish finders cable fit thru the hole great. If not I would patch the hole where the cover is. Then I would go get another plastic clamp from BPS or West Marine,or whatever you have as a boat supply store.  I would use either 5200 or Life Caulk silicone sealant. Squirt some in the holes and on the threads of the screws as I reinstalled the plastic clamps on the new transducer cable. It makes for a nice clean install and eliminates any water leaks. I would use the 5200 on the old transducer mounting holes, let it setup for several days and then install the fake wood board. After that had a couple of days to setup i would go ahead and install my new transducer. As for the four holes on each side of the hull I am guessing the previous owner had something mounted there perhaps floatation pontoons.  I would remove the oar brackets on the outside and use the 5200 to fill and smooth the area .You can lightly sand it and it will just blend in when you give it a new coat of paint.  All in all I like your new boat.

thomas15 mentioned something else,  we typically mount the bottom edge of a transducer so it is level with the bottom of the boat  and the rear edge of the transducer tilted down. That is the correct placement forone mounted on a high speed fiberglass boat. Over the years I have come to realize on slower boats and especially aluminum  boats the transducers work better lowered down about 1/4 to 1/2 below the transom and with the body of the transducer mounted level.;  The previous owner mounted hi with the entire body of the transducer below the boat.  For that hull it probably worked well like that. Make sure when you mount your transducer you mount it so the bottom of the transducer is parallel to earth and not the curve of the boat in order to get good readings. 

[Anon2578455]

Thanks again for the help.  I am going to take the boat out this Friday on an electric motor lake.  I will do the work after the trip to have more time for the 5200 to set up.  I did order a transducer board and will follow the advice here. Just to clear up a couple things,  I should try to remount the cables and holders through the same holes.  If the screws are smaller,  it should be fine with the 5200 correct?  Thanks again.  

[thomas15]

If you can get the cable through the existing hole then I would keep the little cover and keep the clamps as long as the screws are snug no problem. 5200 is more "like" a latex calk not so much a rigid epoxy like JB Weld. So you can run a bead of 5200 to seal the board to the transom. Still once the 5200 cures it is very tough, but not rock hard.

[Anon2578455]

I am sitting here at work and thinking about only having the one box for flotation foam,  should there of been more? Should I add some? 

Also where do you pick up seat pedestals? I can't find reasonably priced ones. 

[thomas15]

I assume you are going to build new seat benches that are basically boxes? And I assume you are thinking about putting foam in those boxes?

If I'm assuming correctly then you want the seats on top of the benches with the ability to swivel?

[fishnkamp]

You do not need pedestals since your seats have swivel mounts as is. You are safer not raising your seats. You will see a lot of similar size boats with seats that are raise high above the floor which is level or almost level with the gunnels.  Unles  they are super wide hulls than they are less safe than they should be. Since your floor is low enough to have your legs fit comfortably under you, using a raised pedestals is harmful not helpful. If you look at the Polar Kraft boat I posted earlier, you will see my back seat is mounted right down on the bench just like yours.  My front seat is mounted to a box that also stored my 12 volt battery for the front trolling motor. It to left me low and inside the boat. That boat was only 1 foot longer than your boat, but much wider than your boat. Width equals stability but it still was not wide enough to run a raised deck and raised pedestal seats.   

[Anon2578455]

OK,  I was thinking of building him a flat floor to make it easier. Maybe I will redo the benches then cause they all flex a bit when sitting on them, I do not know how well they will hold up,  my wife says they bow when I sit. 

This is what I was thinking.  Do you guys have a better idea of what I should do? Maybe just redo the benches,  add a better deck,  storage etc? 

[thomas15]

I have to agree with fishnkamp you don't want to destabilize the boat.

 

Here is a thread that you might find interesting...

 

[Anon2578455]

Thanks,  that floor is perfect. I can build the front deck,  put storage there and one swivel seat.  Then I can make a bench for the rear with a swivel and in the middle,  I can make a column with a swivel seat there as well.  This way my center of gravity is low and the boat is stable.  Thank you so much.  I have been driving to limber years and finding pieces of marine wood around here that was scrap.  They have been letting it go either free or cheap so I should be able to do this relatively cheap, which is why I am asking.  

 

I told my dad I am taking him fishing Friday.  I didn't say I have a boat for him,  just gonna surprise him.  I figure I will take him out once,  and then restore it and drop it off. I am dropping the trailer off tomorrow to my mechanic to inspect the bearings and repack them.  He said it would be 60 dollars but with the limited history of the trailer,  I want to be sure. 

[fishnkamp]

Your benches are part of the structural integrity of the boat so here is what I would do. Dad's chair could be removed and one of these adjustable seat mounts would work okay.  http://www.basspro.com/Economy-Boat-Seat-Pedestals/product/1205150503201/

In the rear I would not remove the bench as it is. I would remove the seat and build a box to encapsulate it using 2x4 vertical supports. I would then remount my seat with one of these  http://www.basspro.com/Boat-Seat-Swivel/product/421852130/

You could also build that box to stretch back to the transom, including a hatch lid to make it work as storage. By doing this the seat will get supported by the 2x4 frame and the top piece of carpeted wood, but you would not actually modify the structure of the boat. All it takes is some imagination and some wood, carpet ,a couple of seat mounts and a little time. One reason I prefer the large diameter seat posts rather than the flat plate and a "Pin type" post is stability in a narrower width hull. If you go back to the pixs of Ed's boat you can see he used them on his boat. He has had the more popular pin type post on many boats over the years, but his 16 foot jon is different. He knew many of the members of his fishing club are over 65 and he designed the seats to be more stable.

[Anon2578455]

1 hour ago, fishnkamp said:

Your benches are part of the structural integrity of the boat so here is what I would do. Dad's chair could be removed and one of these adjustable seat mounts would work okay.  http://www.basspro.com/Economy-Boat-Seat-Pedestals/product/1205150503201/

In the rear I would not remove the bench as it is. I would remove the seat and build a box to encapsulate it using 2x4 vertical supports. I would then remount my seat with one of these  http://www.basspro.com/Boat-Seat-Swivel/product/421852130/

You could also build that box to stretch back to the transom, including a hatch lid to make it work as storage. By doing this the seat will get supported by the 2x4 frame and the top piece of carpeted wood, but you would not actually modify the structure of the boat. All it takes is some imagination and some wood, carpet ,a couple of seat mounts and a little time. One reason I prefer the large diameter seat posts rather than the flat plate and a "Pin type" post is stability in a narrower width hull. If you go back to the pixs of Ed's boat you can see he used them on his boat. He has had the more popular pin type post on many boats over the years, but his 16 foot jon is different. He knew many of the members of his fishing club are over 65 and he designed the seats to be more stable.

OK,  I will encapsulate the rear beach and mount the swivel seat,  that sounds easy.  What about the middle bench I have? I would like that flat floor from the back box to the front.  If I create the deck up front like I currently have which covers the front bench ,  is that where I mount that pedestal you linked on top of that or would that be too high.  Sorry just want to ensure I build this right.  I am thinking of starting next week.  Figure 2 weeks to do it. 

Also should I use the trolling motor up front in the block he made or on the transom since the Suzuki  motor is off? 

Thanks again for everyone's help.  I am a complete beginner with zero knowledge so I am so greatly appreciative of all the advice.  I am learning so much! 

[fishnkamp]

I would design it like this. I am not sure how much room you have in the transom area. If there is enough room to put a portable 3 gallon or 6 gallon tank I would center it. Then I would get two marine deep cycle batteries and mount one on each side. I would deck over that whole area and mount your seat. That will give you some coverage and you could also lay rods on top, using some of the plastic holders with foam in them. I think they hold four rods. Now I am pretty sure you will be fine pulling out just the middle seat. You could easily make a wood frame and install the plywood over it. That could easily be level with or slightly above the existing floor. Do not use pressure treated 2x4 directly in contact with the aluminum, as Ed found out it reacts and caused lots of little pin holes in the hull. He used something called Azek, it is sorta plastic wood. You also could use untreated 2x4s and paint them first.  If you build the floor the way you envision it, it could cover from just in front of your seat right up to the front deck. In fact i think I would make the front deck a tiny bit longer and build a top door to store more stuff, like anchors, life jackets, and a waterproof box to store wallets,keys, phones etc. I would eliminate the middle seat and move dad's seat a few feet behind the the front deck ( behind enough he would have plenty of room for his legs)  In the middle area where you removed the center seat you could build two storage boxes say 14 inches long and 12 inches wide to store stuff like tackle. Obviously how large depends on how things layout. I am miles and miles away so I am just going off the pictures, but I am sure you could make it fit nice.If you look back at the pics of my Polar Kraft it essentially was this floor plan. If you look close the boat had a seat mounted to the rear bench and two storage boxes on the sides going forward to the front seat which was mounted on top of an aluminum box that contained a battery. In the front of the boat was a small front deck. I think it will be safe to remove the middle seat and wood bench since you are not removing the front or back one. With the addition of a flat floor and a couple of storage boxes you will still have a nice wide open area between the seats. 

The rod holder I was thinking about is this one http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Twist-Lock-Rod-Rack/product/1402150935301/

[Anon2578455]

Is it hard to convert the Suzuki to use a tank since right now it only holds a gallon in the engine? Also what do I mount dad's seat on,  build like a wooden column type structure or pole? 

Update : just got home from work and my minn kota power center,  transducer mounting board,  and 5200 3oz tube was waiting for me.  It's coming along

 

[thomas15]

Not to belabor the point but to repeat what fishnkamp is saying. Keep several things in mind when making structural modifications to your boat. The first is weight, the boat is designed to handle a certain amount of weight, this includes all of the building materials you put in the boat minus the items you take out. Second, the existing bench seats are an important structural component, they add strength and keep the boat sides from flexing and going out of shape. Third is the center of gravity, it needs to be low in the hull, this is why the suggestion not to have seats that allow standing. Fourth is flotation. If the boat is swamped there should be enough floatation to keep it from sinking. Finally fifth, overall weight from a propulsion perspective. You don't wan to make the boat so heavy that the motors struggle to move it. I'm sure there are other considerations not just those. Safety is the most important thing.

Speaking for myself, I'm not quite as graceful in movement as I was when I younger. Sudden shifts in body position in a small boat can make for an interesting day. We talk about gaining our "sea legs", this is an actual consideration. In a small boat we stay low and move with as little fuss and with much economy of motion. It takes time and experience to learn how to move with grace in a small boat.

If you hang out at the launch ramp and observe what is happening you will see what I mean, some boaters are in and out quickly, quietly, gracefully and seem to expel little effort. Others are loud, abrupt and look like they are out of their element. They struggle with what may seem to be a simple task. Not that I'm an expert on this but I have launched my boat many times in the last 3 years, using a bunker trailer and have not even one time got even my pinky toe wet in the process. It is possible to do this but you will see people in the water up to their neck trying to get their boat on/off the trailer. I stay away from these types. This is not an insult to anyone who employes this method but just my personal prefrence. Boating is not something that comes natural to most people. I try to visualize every move and look ahead several steps and how that will impact me and the others using the facility. As an example, I have observed people that have launched their boat successfully but neglected to bring any kind of rope to secure the vessel to the dock.

There is nothing wrong with waiting, letting others go ahead of you if there is a line, for things to calm down. I use a very busy lake with a very busy launch ramp. On the weekends there can be a 30-40 wait to use the ramp which can accommodate 3 trailers at a time. When I'm by myself, I have to leave my car on the ramp while I tie up to the dock, then get my car off the ramp as quickly as possible. Same but in reverse when taking out. If there isn't any place for me to tie up my boat I wait for room to do so before I take up a lane on the ramp. Some people are not that considerate of others.

Again not to be a nag but I urge you to get the boat out by yourself first for a shake down ride. Even better yet if you know someone, a friend that is experienced to go with you.  I have a wife and two adult kids. My son is able to pilot the boat and/or back the trailer down the ramp but my wife and daughter cannot. If they can assist in any part of getting the boat in or out then great but I don't rely on them to do any of this. With a small boat like ours it is very possible for one person to do the whole thing unassisted and you should be able to do this with some practice.

OK lecture over I hope you have a great time on the water this weekend.

PS don't forget to put the plug in! And don't forget to raise the motor up before launching and while taking out!

 

[Anon2578455]

I brought the boat/trailer to my lufelong mechanic and he lifted it and the wheels wobbled when he moved them.  He is gonna repack and see if the play goes away.  He said it was a good thing I brought it in.  

Update,  he sent me out for new bearings and seals.  The incorrect bearings were used,  they were too large which caused the play.