Considering buying a 1990 GT 200 Johnson V6

[riverbasser]

Looking at a used javelin/stratos with above mentioned engine and just curious if anyone has any opinions on them. Never had anything like it. Owner claims it was rebuilt and bored .10 over with new everything. Seems to run good but had a little trouble starting on river. Had to choke a few times even after warm but once it started it idled fine. Pushed the boat pretty good around 47mph but I noticed at WOT rpm were only 4300. Idk if there is a problem or if its just over propped(26p prop). I haven't done a compression check yet. What numbers should I see? Any other comments please share. Thanks

[iabass8]

4300 RPM WOT....47mph at WOT..200hp 2 stroke..sounds like it could be down a cylinder. I would stay away or at the very least pay to get it checked out. Do a compression test AFTER you run the engine. Compression #s should be within 10 of each other. Bottom 2 might be lower than top 4 and thats ok.  For reference, I had a 175  johnson faststrike v6 /w 25p ss prop and hit 58-60 at 5600 RPM on a 19' ranger. Before I sold that boat and upgraded new, i think my compression numbers were all between 103-105. Those old 2 strokes are great but something sounds wrong with that GT based on your info.

[riverbasser]

That's kinda what I thought but he had paperwork of a rebuild just last year so that's why I questioned if maybe the 26p prop might of been bringing it down. Never ran anything over 19p. I will do a compression and spark test. Those 2 test should show anything that would cause it right?

[Way2slow]

if built properly, good engine.  Just remember GT stands for gas thirsty.

As mentioned, rpm sounds like you are only running on five cylinders.

Compression should be within 5% on all six.

If it has the stock heads, that year ran open chamber heads and they were all the same size. Factory spec was as low as 80psi.  The key is being within 5%

A whole host of problems can cause one cylinder to be out.  Some require knowledge, others require money  to diagnose.

Just a little gee wiz, that's actually most likely a 225.  Most GT 200's were 225's.  Kinda like a 200HO.  If the venture in the carbs is 1.45", it's a 225, 200 carbs are 1.35 something.

compression ain't gonna show what causes most problems.  Timer base and power packs are very common failures.  Magnets coming loose in flywheel is also common.  Trust me, be prepared to spend several hundred dollars.

[riverbasser]

8 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

if built properly, good engine.  Just remember GT stands for gas thirsty.

As mentioned, rpm sounds like you are only running on five cylinders.

Compression should be within 5% on all six.

If it has the stock heads, that year ran open chamber heads and they were all the same size. Factory spec was as low as 80psi.  The key is being within 5%

A whole host of problems can cause one cylinder to be out.  Some require knowledge, others require money  to diagnose.

Just a little gee wiz, that's actually most likely a 225.  Most GT 200's were 225's.  Kinda like a 200HO.  If the venture in the carbs is 1.45", it's a 225, 200 carbs are *** something.

Plugs should tell the story wouldn't you say? If compression and spark is good on all cylinders what else could cause it? Don't want to buy a project. Are yall certain prop pitch has nothing to do with it?

[Way2slow]

I'm not certain the sun will rise tomorrow, but I do have a hellavalot of knowledge and experience with that motor.  Even on a 20' boat, a 26" prop is not going to cause no where near that much loss.

A plug dump will help.  Run it at WOT for few minutes and while holding WOT shut it off.  Do no restart it or let it idle.  Pull the plugs and they should be off white to paper bag brown.  None should be black.

[riverbasser]

Well dont know if I will get a chance to run it off trailer for awhile but will do what test I can tomorrow and report back. Maybe its something simple, if not ill just walk away. Thanks for the replies 

[Way2slow]

Understand, if it has been idled or just run on a hose, plugs are all going to black and won't show you anything.

When doing compression check, it needs to be warm and make sure to have the butterflies in carbs open.  If you get the feeling it's something simple and cheap, I hope you have an extra $500 you are willing to spend after the deal, and that's if you can trouble shoot it yourself.  It can easily cost you that.

 

 

[riverbasser]

11 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

Understand, if it has been idled or just run on a hose, plugs are all going to black and won't show you anything.

When doing compression check, it needs to be warm and make sure to have the butterflies in carbs open.  If you get the feeling it's something simple and cheap, I hope you have an extra $500 you are willing to spend after the deal, and that's if you can trouble shoot it yourself.  It can easily cost you that.

 

 

Yea I understand nothings cheap on an outboard. I just meant maybe a loose cinnection or bad plug giving weak or no spark. Along with the rebuild he claims stator,powerpack and coils are new as well but said he couldn't find paperwork for them. I was surprised that when looking it seems to just have one large powerpack feeding all coils. I imagine that things pretty high. 

[A-Jay]

I do not have the knowledge or experience of members who have responded here already with solid experienced based info.

However, that prop pitch of 26 really jumped out at me - might be too much prop for your application and would certainly explain the loss of rpms; especially if there aren't any other signs of engine trouble.

Before I started any serious engine / compression tests, I'd do the do diligence to ensure I had the right prop. 

That certainly the path of least resistance and wouldn't it be nice if the engine was fine and you just needed a different size screw ?

Good Luck

A-Jay

[Way2slow]

I have a 20' javelin with a 225 ficht, it turns a 26" Raker 5,800 rpm at a touch over 70.

I've seen a couple people trying to turn 26's on 201's with 200's and they still turned 4,800-5,000.  That would have to be one seriously water logged boat for a 26 to kill it that much, no matter the size.  Not being there and my crystal ball not working, I can only speculate, but I doubt it's the prop.

[riverbasser]

1 minute ago, Way2slow said:

I have a 20' javelin with a 225 ficht, it turns a 26" Raker 5,800 rpm at a touch over 70.

I've seen a couple people trying to turn 26's on 201's with 200's and they still turned 4,800-5,000.  That would have to be one seriously water logged boat for a 26 to kill it that much, no matter the size.  Not being there and my crystal ball not working, I can only speculate, but I doubt it's the prop.

I believe you and appreciate the help. On a side note, how do you like your javelin? How does it handle in rough water?

[Way2slow]

Mine's a 99, Renegade 20 DC and bought it at auction eight or nine years ago for about $4,500 and have really like it. Now, a lot of the motor was in the storage boxes when I bought it.  As for rough water, about the roughest thing I've had it in was maybe two foot waves with white caps and it was fine then, and for a big boat, it's pretty dang quick, and it's just down right fast to scary fast when I put one of my modified 325hp motors on it.  I do that from time to time just to embarrass a few Tritons but mainly run the 225. 

[thomas15]

I don't know anything about this particular motor. But I do have an opinion. It appears that there is something not quite right with the motor. I'm not impressed with the fact that it was rebuilt last year because it's not running right now.

If the fix were something simple then the owner would fix it before selling it. If you really have the hot's for this boat then make a deal with the owner, agree on a repair price, lets say $300.00  He gets it fixed for that or a lower and you pay that amount above the agreeded upon price.

Suppose you agree to buy the boat for $2000.00  Agree that you will give him as much as $2300.00 for the boat but it has to be in good running order. My gut tells me he will not agree to this. But as another poster said, my crystal ball is also broken.

Maybe I'm suffering from a bad attitude but it took me from the second week of April until this weekend to get my motor running properly for this year. A 2-cycle outboard motor, it seems, runs on 75% engineering, chemistry and physics  and 25% magic. If your not good at the magic part then you can expect to have a great season watching others catch fish while you study your factory service manual and try this and try that. In it's basic form all you need is fuel and spark. Mostly fuel. The fuel has to arrive to the combustion chamber with just the right amount of air, no more, no less. Dirty carbs, whooped fuel lines, leaking fuel lines, old gas, improperly adjusted carbs, poor performing fuel pump and so forth are generally the problem. The rest is a lack of magic.

[Further North]

I had a 1991 GT 150 on a Lund Pro-V DLX 1800...it'd top out at 52 - 53 MPH...that's something screwy with that set-up.

Great motor, cold blooded, but had a ton of torque and get up and go...you could pull the plug outta the bottom of the lake with that thing and make it back to the dock before the lake drained...

GT=Gas Thirsty...understatement of the month there.  The last year we took it to Canada, we burned $550 in gas.  This June, we burned $69 and change with a Suzuki 4 stroke...

[WIGuide]

14 hours ago, Further North said:

GT=Gas Thirsty...understatement of the month there.  The last year we took it to Canada, we burned $550 in gas.  This June, we burned $69 and change with a Suzuki 4 stroke...

Gas was about twice the price it was last year. The 4 stroke is still WAY more fuel efficient though.

[Further North]

21 minutes ago, WIGuide said:

Gas was about twice the price it was last year. The 4 stroke is still WAY more fuel efficient though.

Actually the last year for the Lund in Canada was about 6 years ago - call it 2010 or there about.

Last year on LOTW was $55, this year was $69.

[WIGuide]

1 hour ago, Further North said:

Actually the last year for the Lund in Canada was about 6 years ago - call it 2010 or there about.

Last year on LOTW was $55, this year was $69.

my mistake, I read it wrong.

[riverbasser]

Well I'll never figure out what might have been wrong with it. He sold it before I could get back to run some test. Thanks for all the help tho guys

[Way2slow]

Actually, unless it was one hellava deal, he probably did you a favor.

[riverbasser]

47 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

Actually, unless it was one hellava deal, he probably did you a favor.

Yea I won't lose any sleep over it. Let me ask you this are the evinrude V engines basically the same as the Johnson's? This might be to vague a question I just saw another stratos for sale with a 150 evinrude and I don't know anymore about it but I can tell its V shaped block.

[Way2slow]

Depends on the year model and size.  If they are both carbureted two stroke engines, they are basically identical.  In about 1997/8 Evinrude started changing over to the ficht DFI motors, starting with the four cylinder motors first.  Even then, a lot of the parts were the same and you could actually convert the ficht DFI to carbureted with the heads and intake system, ecm and a few other parts from a carbureted motor.  Now when Johnson introduced the four stroke, they did not even build that motor so nothing about it is similar to the Evinrude, other than it's an outboard.     

Also, depending on the HP, it could be a 60 degree V or a 90 degree V.  The 60 degree motors are a lot thinner looking as the back than the 90 degree motors.

A 150 before 1992 would be a 90 degree Cross flow, very good motor but not very good on gas or great on power.  In 92 they went to the 60 degree looper, a little better on gas and power. 

[riverbasser]

 

6 hours ago, Way2slow said:

Depends on the year model and size.  If they are both carbureted two stroke engines, they are basically identical.  In about 1997/8 Evinrude started changing over to the ficht DFI motors, starting with the four cylinder motors first.  Even then, a lot of the parts were the same and you could actually convert the ficht DFI to carbureted with the heads and intake system, ecm and a few other parts from a carbureted motor.  Now when Johnson introduced the four stroke, they did not even build that motor so nothing about it is similar to the Evinrude, other than it's an outboard.     

Also, depending on the HP, it could be a 60 degree V or a 90 degree V.  The 60 degree motors are a lot thinner looking as the back than the 90 degree motors.

A 150 before 1992 would be a 90 degree Cross flow, very good motor but not very good on gas or great on power.  In 92 they went to the 60 degree looper, a little better on gas and power. 

Awesome answer. Thanks again

[Further North]

19 hours ago, Further North said:

Actually the last year for the Lund in Canada was about 6 years ago - call it 2010 or there about.

Last year on LOTW was $55, this year was $69.

 

18 hours ago, WIGuide said:

my mistake, I read it wrong.

No, I wasn't clear when I wrote it.  I do that sometimes...