Straightening out hooks with 20# braid

[beardown34]

Hey everyone, I have several questions about trying to stop straightening out hooks. I'd love your input.

I use a 7'1" MH spinning reel from 13. From what I can gather, it tends to be on the lighter side of MH. I have it spooled up with 20# powerpro and 17# vicious FC leader on a Pflueger supreme SUPS30 reel. I fish residential ponds -- avg ~ 1.5-2.5 #. Seasonal blooms of algae but no real underwater cover to speak of.

Starting July I really started fishing Texas Rigs. I am using both Gamakatsu (not superline) and BPS 2/0 Round Bend Offset Worm Hooks, as well as both Gamakatsu and BPS XPS Superlock 3/0 EWG hooks. I'm finding that I am bending out my hooks pretty much after 2-3 fish. I usually have the drag fully dialed down, because when I dial it back even 2 clicks, I am hearing the drag slip on hooksets. To avoid dragging the fish through and across the brush that lines the shores, I do lift the fish out of the water (a boat flip, without the boat), but I quickly lip the fish and relieve the pressure off the hook. Again, these are 1.5-2.5# fish.

I have a pretty decent stock of braid to go through so I'm not really considering switching to FC or mono. 

1) My ultimate question is -- do you HAVE to use superline (or equivalent, thicker gauge) hooks when fishing texas rigs with braid?

2) If it is possible to use these regular, non-superline worm hooks with braid, what is the solution? Dialing back the drag until you find a happy medium where you generate enough force for the hook to penetrate, but not such much that it bends the hook? <-- is this happy medium possible?

3) Let's say you have the exact same rod, reel, drag, hook setup, but one setup you have 20# braid and one setup you have 10# braid. And on both setups you feel the fish and perform the exact same hookset -- assuming the drag doesn't slip, do both 20# and 10# setups generate the same force at the end of the line?

I don't expect these regular worm hooks to last forever, but jeez they should last more than 2-3 fish. I'm guessing I have to start dialing back the drag until I actually start losing fish because the hook isn't penetrating the mouth.

[flyfisher]

i have fished braid and the gammy hooks you mentioned and have never once bent out a hook on a fish.  I have on snags when pulling them free but never a fish.  .  I even use heavier braid and still don't bend them out.  Something seems off here to me.

[beardown34]

thanks for your quick input. so you have heavier line, and i presume at least as heavy and likely heavier powered rods. i also presume your hookset mechanics are better and exert more force than mine. so what other variable ... do you have your drag dialed back? are you using a gentle-ish hookset, like a sweep, as opposed to the twist-body-uppercut-rip that i use? are you lipping your fish in the water, and never hoisting them up in the air by the line?

[WRB]

How do you remove the hook from the bass?

[flyfisher]

3 minutes ago, WRB said:

How do you remove the hook from the bass?

that was going to be my next question lol

 

[beardown34]

Great question. That's a variable I hadn't thought of. I think I remove the hook ..normally? Just with my right thumb/index finger while lipping with my left. 

This shows a representative set of fish and hooksets.  

 

I think it's understood, but in case not, I mean my hooks are getting bent, not fully straightened. For example with the EWG, instead of the hook point just being pointed 3 degrees offset from the hook eye, after a few fish the hook point is pointed 10, 15, 20 degrees up. Enough so that it makes it hard to skin hook my plastic. And when I tried bending the hook back into shape, what I found was that I began missing hooksets, I'm guessing because the hook point is flexing open, as opposed to driving into the fish. On those missed hooksets the hooks came back even more deformed than before I had bent them back. 

[beardown34]

btw Tom, I've read many of your posts on other threads about using straight shank hooks for texas rigged worm fishing. I love the idea of it, and the BPS straight shank hooks are definitely noticeably thicker than their offset round bend hooks. But man, for the life of me I cannot keep the hook point weedless after it breaks through the first time. At least with creature baits there is just more plastic to work with, but even with those I have a hard time keeping the hook point from poking through. I use the heat shrink tubing trick and that does a decent enough job keeping the head end from sliding down the shank.

[flyfisher]

As i think about it more, I bet it is your bank flipping that is bending the hooks as that is the only thing that is different than what i do.

 

[beardown34]

durn, i thought i would be ok with these < 3# fish. although it's certainly not impossible to reach into the water to lip these fish without bank flipping them, it would be a little awkward in a lot of spots. especially since i do a fair amount of my fishing at night and in the early. and light or dark out, i like to be able to see where the hook is before lipping the fish.

speaking of not hooking myself though, now that i think of it, i bank flip treble hooked fish and have not yet encountered a bent hook. whopper plopper 90 mostly, with stock hooks. 

regarding the hook removal question above -- how do you damage the hook during the removal? with pliers?

[flyfisher]

yeah you could tweak them by using pliers. I know i have bent some back on trebles after pulling them free from snags and having them get bent out some.

[beardown34]

flyfisher how tight do you set your drag when fishing texas rigged plastics? and do you expect your drag to slip on the hookset?

[A-Jay]

28 minutes ago, beardown34 said:

durn, i thought i would be ok with these < 3# fish. although it's certainly not impossible to reach into the water to lip these fish without bank flipping them, it would be a little awkward in a lot of spots. especially since i do a fair amount of my fishing at night and in the early. and light or dark out, i like to be able to see where the hook is before lipping the fish.

speaking of not hooking myself though, now that i think of it, i bank flip treble hooked fish and have not yet encountered a bent hook.

 

You may want to consider using a net with sufficient handle length to accommodate the conditions you fish. 

Bank flipping 2 & 3 pound bass is totally doable - BUT sooner or later you're going to stick "The ONE" and there will be no bank flipping her.  Of course you could make an attempt to but we've all read the stories here. "She got off right at my feet - and she was Huge!"

A pair of hip boots  is another option which would allow one to safely transit through the shoreline slop (and any reptiles) but I'd agree with you that reaching for a treble hooked bass (especially at night) is a risky proposition.  So a net's a much safer deal.

A-Jay

[beardown34]

OK I will see what life is like not bank flipping these fish. 

so the general consensus is -- i should NOT have to use superline hooks when fishing texas rigged plastics with 20# braid with these <3 # bass? while i'm certainly happy to get away with using the economical 25pk BPS hooks, i guess aside from not bank flipping them i'll have to try dialing down my drag. 

i had also had tremendous success and longevity with zman plastics. i caught 31 fish on a single big TRD (the new 4" ones), before i lost it due to knot failure (i was testing out a san diego jam knot. i'm sure it was user error on the tying). i bought a pack of superline 3/0 EWG hooks to pair with my zman plastics. i may never have to change a hook or plastic again! (sarcasm .. a little)

[WRB]

It's rare for a bass to damage a hook. What usually happens with light wire hooks is they get bent during hook extraction. It's possible with practice to use your finger tip to push out a hook by applying pressure to the hook bend. A good tool like a Rapala extraction tool works good instead of using your finger.

When a hook penetrates past the barb it doesn't bend with a few pounds of force.

Tom

[beardown34]

I will pay more attention to my hook extraction, but I will say that I make it a point to grab the hook eye and push in the same axis as the shank of the hook. if that caused any damage, i would imagine that motion would cause the hook point to deviate downwards, towards the bend of the hook, as opposed to up and outwards towards the sky, like mine are. 

[WRB]

Valadium steel is often used to make hooks because it's stronge and corrosion resistant. Heat treated steels yield when bent too far and weaken, that happens if you push down on the hook eye instead of the hook bend.

You see pro's hit the hook eye to pop it loose, you don't see them retrying a new hook.

Tom

[Catt]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

It's rare for a bass to damage a hook. What usually happens with light wire hooks is they get bent during hook extraction. It's possible with practice to use your finger tip to push out a hook by applying pressure to the hook bend. A good tool like a Rapala extraction tool works good instead of using your finger.

When a hook penetrates past the barb it doesn't bend with a few pounds of force.

Tom

I've never had a hook bend on hookset or while fighting a fish...ever!

But I don't play with whimpy hooks!

I set my drag at 10-12 lbs for 15# Big Game & 65 braid; max drag on my Calcutta is around 15 lbs.

My hooksets are with enough authority to move an 8-10# bass!

[Fun4Me]

Try stepping up your hook size. To my knowledge, I've never bent a 4/0 hook ever, and I land flip almost every fish and hook set hard most every time on T/rigged creature baits, worms, etc.

I usually fish my T/rigged stuff on a M/H baitcaster, with 50# braid, and my drag maxed out. If I hook into something big I will generally back the drag down a bit after the hook set. (Big being something over 3.5-4 pounds) 

 

[1simplemann]

Here's a suggestion. Put a leader on. 6' of fluro or even better mono should give you some  "give". I love braid and won't be switching anytime soon but always fish a fluro leader. I don't do much Texas rigging but I'm catching some 8-12 lb pike that aren't bending my hooks.

[WRB]

26 minutes ago, 1simplemann said:

Here's a suggestion. Put a leader on. 6' of fluro or even better mono should give you some  "give". I love braid and won't be switching anytime soon but always fish a fluro leader. I don't do much Texas rigging but I'm catching some 8-12 lb pike that aren't bending my hooks.

Did you read the OP's detailed discription of the tackle he is using?

[WRB]

Try Owner 5167 Twistlock hook, light wire forged with CPS Spring that should be ideal for you tackle. Stay away from BPS store brand terminal tackle.

Tom

[1simplemann]

47 minutes ago, WRB said:

Did you read the OP's detailed discription of the tackle he is using?

I did but must have missed the FC leader part. my mistake. I thought he was using straight braid in heavy cover. he still could use a mono leader for some stretch. I only bend light wire hooks. My Gammy hooks rarely bend. It may be his BPS hooks. Those do bend for me on my tube jigheads.

[WRB]

47 minutes ago, 1simplemann said:

I did but must have missed the FC leader part. my mistake. I thought he was using straight braid in heavy cover. he still could use a mono leader for some stretch. I only bend light wire hooks. My Gammy hooks rarely bend. It may be his BPS hooks. Those do bend for me on my tube jigheads.

No or very little difference in "stretch" between premium mono and FC line, mono does superior knot strength.

Tom

[1simplemann]

4 minutes ago, WRB said:

No or very little difference in "stretch" between premium mono and FC line, mono does superior knot strength.

Tom

Well heck  I don't know then. It's got to be the hooks. 10lb pike aren't bending my hooks.

[Tmmytomato]

I have not had a problem with straight shank VMC Flippin' Hooks. The Owner Riggin' Hook is a heavier wire wide gap hook also. Both are available in 2/0 and 3/0 on up in size. You might get better success with a straight shank flippin' style hook.