FG Knot

[Shak Muscles]

So I used to be a regular Mono user, using 12lb straight mono. But for some reason the line kept breaking out of nowhere and I didn't like the slack feel to the line since I mainly fish senkos and I could barely tell when the bass bit it. So a few days ago I switched to a braid with fluoro leader combo and I went out and got 20lb power pro braid and 14lb berkely vanish fluoro. I have been trying the FG knot since I heard its the strongest knot out there, but it keeps coming loose and breaking off. The line is fine but I keep losing my leader at the knot and all my senkos too! 

Am I just tying the knot wrong or is it a problem of my braid being heavier than my fluoro? I didn't realize that the braid had to be lighter than fluoro whenever I saw a forum about braid to fluoro leaders everyone had much heavier braid than their fluoro leaders so I went out and did the same. But I read the the fluoro has to be thicker than the braid for the FG knot to work. So is the FG knot breaking off because I'm tying it wrong or is it because my braid is a heavier pound test than my fluoro?

[MassYak85]

The fluoro does have to be thicker. But 20lb braid is CONSIDERABLY less thick than 14lb fluoro. Don't go by the lb test, go by line diameter. It is a tricky knot to learn, and many on here would advise more simple connection knots. It is great when you finally master it, so if you are committed to learning I would sit down in the living room for a while while watching TV and just tie it, over...and over. Until you get it down. There are a lot of little details that all go into making the knot as good as it is, but you need to make sure you get them right. There are some good videos on how to tie it on YouTube, I'd recommend this one. Helped me a lot. 

 

 

[Shak Muscles]

Thanks for the help. So what you're saying is that there really shouldn't be any problem with the line since the braid is still much thinner than the fluoro correct? It's just all about practice. I think I might look into the finishing to the knot. What would you suggest? I've heard overhand knot, and in the video he said hitch knot to keep the fg knot in place. I also know that I have been forgetting to wet the line when I'm done doing the finger trap part, so could that be a problem also? It seems so weird because when I cinch the knot and pull on it it seems so strong but when I put it in the water for the actual test it comes undone pretty fast. Today I was out and only caught 3 bass before losing the leader line altogether. 

[swandog]

Tried the FG knot a few times and I also struggled with it. Having to keep tension on the line while trying to tie it in a small moving boat just doesn't seem practical for me. However (after much practice) I feel confident in the Alberto knot and have yet to break it. Have also heard that the uni to uni is pretty good as well.

[WalkerJD]

no i see the problem, trust me i had the same issue until i found this video and i finally realized how strong it is and what i was messing up

 

[Brett's_daddy]

The Alberto is almost as strong and a lot easier to learn IMO.

[MassYak85]

1 hour ago, Brett's_daddy said:

The Alberto is almost as strong and a lot easier to learn IMO.

True, I would say for on-the-water knot tying it may be the better choice. But setting up your gear at home before a trip I like to the use the FG. 

 

18 hours ago, Shak Muscles said:

Thanks for the help. So what you're saying is that there really shouldn't be any problem with the line since the braid is still much thinner than the fluoro correct? It's just all about practice. I think I might look into the finishing to the knot. What would you suggest? I've heard overhand knot, and in the video he said hitch knot to keep the fg knot in place. I also know that I have been forgetting to wet the line when I'm done doing the finger trap part, so could that be a problem also? It seems so weird because when I cinch the knot and pull on it it seems so strong but when I put it in the water for the actual test it comes undone pretty fast. Today I was out and only caught 3 bass before losing the leader line altogether. 

I do not wet the knot at all when tying or cinching it. Reason being is you are not worried about the knot burning itself due to the friction. All the strength comes from the braid digging into the fluorocarbon. I would say wetting it could actually inhibit it from effectively doing so. It seems to me that your issue may be coming from how you finish the knot. All those fingertrap lashings are useless unless the knot is finished properly. The finish is the only thing stopping the tag end from unraveling and undoing every single one of those lashings. Experiment with what works best for you, but what I do is this. After the main lashings I tie a single overhand knot, AT THIS POINT I cinch down the knot. Once you have done this the knot is as strong as it's ever going to be, anything you do afterwords is only going to be to prevent it from unraveling. What I do afterwards is 3 more overhand knots going around BOTH the braid mainline AND the fluoro/mono tag end. Then I do 3 more overhand around JUST the braid mainline. I cinch each of these down individually as I tie them. This builds a kind of "ramp" so that the knot goes through your guides easier and is less likely to come undone. Then I clip the tags.The reason you want all those extra overhand knots is say you only tie one or two, if those overhands come undone the entire knot is compromised and will unravel quite easily, which I suspect is what is happening in your case. If you have 5-6 then if one or two come undone it's not a big deal and the knot is in no danger of unraveling. Watch some videos on how people end the knot, it will probably resolve your issue. 

[Shak Muscles]

Alright guys so I have been having a much better time with the FG knot now. Recently I got my hook snagged on a log or something and I pulled as hard as I can and the fluoro snapped, the knot was perfectly fine! Now if the 14lb fluoro snaps then the knot really is strong. I finally have confidence in my FG knot, thank you guys for your help. IMO best knot out there, my casting distance is farther than ever and the knot is basically unbreakable if tied correctly. 

[MickD]

In my opinion the FG is well worth learning.  It has been tested as the strongest line to line  knot.  Mine last until I have retied the lures so much I have little leader left.  I have a couple that have lasted this whole season, on rods that get used a lot.  They just don't seem to get damaged by guides, or anything else.

They are much easier to tie on flouro that is about 15 pounds and over than on lighter flouro, and tying onto 10 pound braid can be troublesome for me.  I use the method that doesn't require constant tension, so maybe the constant tension method will tie better than my way.

One thing you could be encountering is bad flouro.  We used to kid about Vanish, it was the lure and the fish that would vanish.  If new Vanish, I have no idea if it's OK, but the old Vanish was very easily damaged.  All FC is susceptible to weakening when kinked, but the FG does not kink the flouro like many knots do.  I suggest you try a setup with some mono and see how it goes.  If it does not work well, then I think you may not be tying the knot correctly.  One thing also is testing the knot before using it.  If you tie the FG and it slips when testing it in your hands, it is not tied correctly.  It should be like a rock in your hands, and you should test it to very high stresses.  Make sure you lube the knot as you pull it tight, also.  This is VERY important to all leaders, but especially for flouro.

I just reread your original post and you say it is 'coming loose and breaking off."  If it is really coming loose, unraveling, then it is not tied correctly.  A correctly tied FG does not unravel.  You are using the half hitches as the last steps, right?  I am interested in hearing how you work out of this.

The video above is absolutely dead nuts on.  One way you can tell if you are getting it right is to disassemble one after you tie it.  If it is done right, the flouro will have the "notches" he mentions. It will have been permanently deformed and it is the mechanical interlocking of the braid loops with the flouro notches that make it work.  The half hitches prevent the braid from simply "coming loose."  

But if you are not getting the notching, you are not pulling it tightly enough and it will not be reliable.

 

[Shak Muscles]

@Mick 

Yeah I wasn't tying it correctly. I wasn't making enough half hitches at the end and I didn't bother to check it or cinch it down enough. Now that I really paid attention to details the knot is working out great for me! I tie a bunch of half hitches at the end and one that goes through the loop a couple times as the finisher. I also make sure to pull as hard as I can to cinch it before cutting off the tag ends and I lube it up while doing it too(with my saliva). So far its holding up. I just retied today because my leader was getting a bit short and the first time when I pulled on it after tying and cutting off tag ends etc. it unraveled right away, I might have messed up on one of the steps. But the next knot I tied is looking perfect. It won't budge at all. 

With this knot the little things matter the most!

[MickD]

Good news.  Take a sharp razor blade and take the braid off the next one you discard and notice the "notches" in the flouro.

[MassYak85]

On 7/19/2016 at 9:36 PM, Shak Muscles said:

Alright guys so I have been having a much better time with the FG knot now. Recently I got my hook snagged on a log or something and I pulled as hard as I can and the fluoro snapped, the knot was perfectly fine! Now if the 14lb fluoro snaps then the knot really is strong. I finally have confidence in my FG knot, thank you guys for your help. IMO best knot out there, my casting distance is farther than ever and the knot is basically unbreakable if tied correctly. 

Great to hear! Sounds like you've got it down. That's one of the great things about this knot, it is NOT a weak point. If tied correctly it should NEVER break, period. Either a fray in the line, the knot to the bait, or the leader itself snapping should end up being the cause of a breakoff. 

[snake95]

Just wanted to bump this thread and throw a comment into here about the FG knot.

 

I started with the Uni-uni and found it to be understandable for a newbie, and strong enough.

 

Then learned the Alberto and loved it for two years.  Also pretty easy to tie.

 

Was VERY intimidated by the FG knot that seems both very popular, and dreaded for complexity.

 

This month I committed to trying it.  I reviewed the Saltstrong video a couple of times and then gave it a shot for about 15 minutes.

 

So far, the FG it is vastly easier and faster to tie than I feared.  I mean vastly.  Just keep in mind you are doing a simple stitch with the lines.  Keep 'em tight as you wrap.  If you've been hesitant to try, watch the video a couple to times and give it a shot.   Before you know it, you'll be braiding lines together into a fingertrap in under 30 seconds, finishing the knot in a minute.  

[Graham]

Alberto knot.