Losing Too Many Fish Lately

[.ghoti.]

OK, I'll ask it. How do you play, or fight, the fish once it's hooked? Are you one of those who points to rod up over your shoulder and cranks as fast as you can? If you are, STOP DOING THAT!

Learn how to use the rod and drag to bring in a crankbait hooked fish.

[papajoe222]

What brand and lb. test mono are you using?? I also use a graphite cranking rod with a softer tip and was having a similar problem last year. I switched to 8lb. Yo-Zuri Hybrid from 10lb. Trilene on the same rod/reel. My problem wasn't tearing out the hooks, it was not getting a good hook-set when the took the bait all the way into their mouth. 

[WRB]

Elasticity or memory is the ability of a material to return to it's original tensile properties, i.e. tempered steel spring. Very few plastics have this property; Torlon is one exception. The rod is the primary culprit that unloads is responsible for a weight or lure coming back at the speed of sound, nylon line may add a few ounces towards that velocity.  If you believe braid will not load up a rod a fire a weight back at you, you are mistaken.

We are we way off topic. My point is this; set the reel drag below the yeild strength of the line, 3 lbs or 4 lbs is well below yield strength for 12 lb mono. 

Tom

[Red Bear]

13 hours ago, Team9nine said:

I agree completely with your latter statement on yielding - When a engineering plastic yields it stays elongated or stretched which also reduces it's cross section or diameter, permanently weakening the line, but in the first part of that paragraph, the yield strength or yield limit would be the point at which that permanent deformation occurred, not the point at which the line first started to stretch at all. The line will still stretch some up to that yield point, just not to the point/percentage of permanent deformation. This would be the elastic phase of the material. It's why if you're not careful, a bait suddenly pulled free from a snag might rocket right back at you like a projectile. That wouldn't happen without the elastic nature of the line. For example, braid won't do that (a nice thing)

If you take a length of nylon line (say 12# or 15# test to keep with the discussion) and measure that length, then add a 3# weight (or apply 3 pounds of pressure however you see fit), nylon line will stretch - a good 5-6% depending upon brand, and this would be immediate. As soon as you took the pressure off, the line would return to its original length since you didn't exceed the yield strength/limit. If you left the weight on, creep would eventually set in and that could become a permanent deformation even if you didn't exceed the yield point. In that regard, your point about leaving knots tied is a good one in this regard. Why risk possible deformation and weakness.

-T9

i dont think hanging a weight from line is even close to being an accurate way to measure line stretch, there are just too many variables missing to measure it that way.

[Team9nine]

24 minutes ago, Red Bear said:

i dont think hanging a weight from line is even close to being an accurate way to measure line stretch, there are just too many variables missing to measure it that way.

You missed the point/context of the larger discussion...

-T9

[Red Bear]

Just now, Team9nine said:

You missed the point/context of the larger discussion...

-T9

i dont think even using that scenario aids you in any discussion...

[J Francho]

6 minutes ago, Red Bear said:

i dont think even using that scenario aids you in any discussion...

It applies, here:

11 hours ago, WRB said:

My point is this; set the reel drag below the yeild strength of the line, 3 lbs or 4 lbs is well below yield strength for 12 lb mono. 

It's the reason for the oft recommended "set your drag to 1/3 the break strength of the line" advice.

 

[Josh Smith]

14 hours ago, Sam said:

Have not read all of the replies but my question to you is "are you swinging the rod to the left or right at waist height when setting the treble hook?"

You may also want to use monofilament as it has some stretch to it and it will give you a good cushion when setting the hook. Now let me add that many pros are switching to fluorocarbon for their treble hook baits. Some are using braid with a flouro leader. One is going to the 8.1/1 ratio baitcaster.

Remember, any slack what-so-ever on a treble hook bait and it is bye bye fishy. You have to keep rod tip high and a straight line from the rod's tip to the bass' mouth at all times. No slack at any time.

As for your frog bite, may I make the following suggestion? - Open the hooks a little with two pliers so the hooks are off the body about an eighth of an inch.  Hold rod tip high so that when the bass hits the frog you are giving the bass time to run with the frog before you drop the rod's tip, reel in the slack and make a powerful hook set over your head. This is a pro's trick when fishing a frog so I can't take credit. And remember, if the bass misses the frog you can let it sit there for about 30 seconds before you move it or reel it in and throw a Senko to the location where the bass missed the frog.

Good luck. Now go out and have some fun cranking and frogging.

Sam,

I set the hook on trebles by going from the rod pointed down at about 4:00 (pointing at the water) to up to about 2:00 to 3:00. 

There's never any slack, and the rod is bent when the bass throws it. 

I use straight mono for this.  I've debated braid with a leader, but I've not gone there yet.

Regards,

Josh

13 hours ago, .ghoti. said:

OK, I'll ask it. How do you play, or fight, the fish once it's hooked? Are you one of those who points to rod up over your shoulder and cranks as fast as you can? If you are, STOP DOING THAT!

Learn how to use the rod and drag to bring in a crankbait hooked fish.

I keep the rod at 2:00 to 2:30.  If it's fighting hard, I might put my reeling hand on the rod to keep it pointed up.

I do watch the rod, too, to make sure it stays bent. 

That one bass in the other thread I landed by doing all the wrong things.  It hit near the bank and I just kinda' swung it up onto the bank when it jumped. 

I'm starting to think that maybe it's the drag on this old EON.  I like the reel, but it feels funny to me and the drag can't be upgraded due to lack of parts.  I have a 4600 on the way; if it doesn't have carbon fiber drags already, it's getting 'em.

Regards,

Josh

12 hours ago, papajoe222 said:

What brand and lb. test mono are you using?? I also use a graphite cranking rod with a softer tip and was having a similar problem last year. I switched to 8lb. Yo-Zuri Hybrid from 10lb. Trilene on the same rod/reel. My problem wasn't tearing out the hooks, it was not getting a good hook-set when the took the bait all the way into their mouth. 

12lb Stren.  It's the same stuff I've used since I started fishing.  I went over mostly to braid for a while, then discovered river fishing again, and mono is better in this environment for a few reasons.  I still use braid for several things, but mostly in still water.  My heavy cover jig rod has 65lb braid, my frog rod has 50lb braid (I need to go up in rod power for this application; it's more of a spinnerbait rod); my jerkbait rod has braid.

My worm rod and crankbait rod both have mono.

Regards,

Josh

[Red Bear]

49 minutes ago, J Francho said:

It applies, here:

It's the reason for the oft recommended "set your drag to 1/3 the break strength of the line" advice.

 

im speaking in terms of a viable way to test line stretch, not how to set your drag...

[J Francho]

The post wasn't about line stretch, it was about deformation from line yield.  The example was hypothetical.  Sometimes threads take a turn down the technical, "measurebator" path.  Anyone that has yanked hard enough on a hung lure to break the line has seen deformation from line yield.  Tom's point was that he didn't think that was the problem with a drag setting at 3 lbs. of resistance with 12 lb. line.

[Team9nine]

4 minutes ago, J Francho said:

The post wasn't about line stretch, it was about deformation from line yield.  The example was hypothetical.  Sometimes threads take a turn down the technical, "measurebator" path.  Anyone that has yanked hard enough on a hung lure to break the line has seen deformation from line yield.  Tom's point was that he didn't think that was the problem with a drag setting at 3 lbs. of resistance with 12 lb. line.

Thank You

[ClackerBuzz]

with treble hooks i do two hook sets (or more correctly 'hook sweeps).  it's less common but if they take the lure and are running straight at me i'm more concerned with reeling up line than a hook set. sooner or later they break right or left and i get a hook sweep on them.  as long as a bass isn't making a run the opposite direction i will sweep into them a second time.  after that i just keep pressure the rest of the battle.

hackney is talking jigs but covers so many great concepts about hook sets.  they apply to many techniques like frogging, drop shot, T rig, wacky etc.  the more I fish the less i 'set the hook'.  no more slack line hook sets. for me it's more about reeling up slack, feeling the fish on the tip of my rod, and hook sweeps.  i'm only human so some days i still get over excited and ESPN them

 

[hawgenvy]

One thing that has not been talked about in this thread is the importance of managing the jump, which is where too many fish are lost. As we know, when a bass jumps it shakes its head violently, and the inertia of the lure can pull the hook out.  I have lost less fish in recent years by more actively managing the jump.

When a bass heads towards the surface to jump -- and I think we all know what that looks and feels like -- I lower the rod tip to the water surface, and reel faster so I can point the rod tip partly towards the fish without letting slack in the line. When the fish breaks the surface, I pull the rod sideways with the rod tip still at the surface, like a low sweep set, to keep the line extra taught during the jump. This keeps the hook pinned. Also, I can often pull the bass's head back down below the surface this way, aborting the jump.

It helps to have a fast reel to do this effectively, which is why I like a fast reel even with crankbaits. Of course, you have to be extra careful doing this with light line and big bass, but if your drag is set right there should be no danger in it.

[Josh Smith]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 4:51 PM, hawgenvy said:

One thing that has not been talked about in this thread is the importance of managing the jump, which is where too many fish are lost. As we know, when a bass jumps it shakes its head violently, and the inertia of the lure can pull the hook out.  I have lost less fish in recent years by more actively managing the jump.

When a bass heads towards the surface to jump -- and I think we all know what that looks and feels like -- I lower the rod tip to the water surface, and reel faster so I can point the rod tip partly towards the fish without letting slack in the line. When the fish breaks the surface, I pull the rod sideways with the rod tip still at the surface, like a low sweep set, to keep the line extra taught during the jump. This keeps the hook pinned. Also, I can often pull the bass's head back down below the surface this way, aborting the jump.

It helps to have a fast reel to do this effectively, which is why I like a fast reel even with crankbaits. Of course, you have to be extra careful doing this with light line and big bass, but if your drag is set right there should be no danger in it.

This might be part of the problem. I've never heard of managing jump before... Thank you!

Josh

[Cgrinder]

I would try thin braid and a leader if you're considering it already, especially on a soft rod. 

Sweep down on the set and let the drag work when the fish runs. Make sure your hooks are sharp as well. 

[everythingthatswims]

Their mouths don't get soft, they just fight harder. It's really easy to keep them hooked on cranks in water below 50 degrees because they almost get paralyzed when you hook them.