Trokar flipping hook

[Tim Kelly]

The bit of the hook you want heading for mouth flesh is the point. The pivoting demos show the bend being pushed up and actually masking the point to some extent. I'm sure you can hook fish with either method, but I don't think there's anything worth taking from the demos of the rig mechanics!

 

 

 

[Mike L]

On 5/24/2016 at 7:53 AM, ErikmonBillsfon said:

Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP

 

5 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

This is the exact problem that I've seen with them. If the hook point is exposed at all, it will slice through the plastic and start catching on everything and quickly wallows out a big hole in the plastic, sometimes without even catching a fish.

 

I've never bothered snelling a hook and never will until I start having a hard time hooking fish while I'm flipping.  Not saying it doesn't maybe catch an extra fish or two when the stars align and the perfect textbook situation plays out, but I'm happy with my results and a Palomar is a lot faster to tie. 

 I've been useing the TK 130 for years with a snell knot on 65# braid. I use this setup for punching through matt's exclusively. I use 1 bobber stop up to 1oz weights and 2 up to 2 oz. I do not texpose for the reasons you guys said. 

Matter of fact before I started useing these, I never texposed any hook when punching. 

When rigging a plastic useing these hooks do not push the point through. Stop before you break the skin.. The point is sharp enough that it doesn't matter. At least none that Ive seen. 

 

Mike 

[fishwizzard]

I am more of a finesse guy so a lot of this is going over my head, is this the snell knot you guys are talking about? I have done a little backyard testing of it and while it seems to hold well, it looks like it could loosen up very easily.   

 

[WRB]

The snell knot is very old and has been around over 100 years used to tie gut leaders then mono to bait holder turned down eye style hooks. It's a reliable knot. The claim is when tied to a straight eye hook, the line will pull the hook point outward. The line exiting the hook eye may flatten long before the force can rotate the hook point outwards when in a big basses mouth. 

It's mute discussion, those who are believers willing to pay $2+ for a Eagle Claw Tokar hook, $5+ for a tungsten weight plus skirt and trailer are invested in this rig.

Tom

[Catt]

Can someone show me how to "texpose" a straight shank round bend hook?

I only "texpose" EWG hooks!

[Bluebasser86]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

Can someone show me how to "texpose" a straight shank round bend hook?

I only "texpose" EWG hooks!

Not really texposed, what I'm guessing he was referring to was leaving the hook point just barely exposed. I like to have a path cleared for my hook with the point just barely exposed to make hook sets a little easier. The main weeds I flip are water willows that don't catch on the point much as long as there isn't too much exposed. 

[S. Sass]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

Can someone show me how to "texpose" a straight shank round bend hook?

I only "texpose" EWG hooks!

You can do it but the "Pro" will tell you how a plastic worm must be strait as an arrow to work. I guess the "Pro" has never seen a real live worm in or out of water.  

[Mike L]

8 hours ago, Bunnielab said:

I am more of a finesse guy so a lot of this is going over my head, is this the snell knot you guys are talking about? I have done a little backyard testing of it and while it seems to hold well, it looks like it could loosen up very easily.   

 

That is one version 

I have never had one lossen...However, I am in the habit of checking my line from the hook to about 6 ft up, and then inspect and test the knot after every catch, hit or snag. 

 

Mike 

[fissure_man]

10 hours ago, Catt said:

There are so many flaws with this "pivoting" theory that no one fully answers.

When demonstrated on videos the anglers holds the weight between their thumb & forefinger, pulls the line showing the hook pivoting. But in most all videos I've seen the weight aint pegged! Aint the reason for pegging to keep the weight in place? Would this mean the line aint sliding? 

Pegging with a bobber stop prevents the weight from sliding up the line, not down toward the hook.  Still works.

No one has fully addressed how this "pivoting" take place in a closed mouth!

Y'all gonna tell me ya never set hook, fought a bass only to have it simply open it's mouth & your lure fly out!

I tried! lol.  If there's no space, no pivot (but any bit of pressure keeping the hook point from hiding behind the big weight is a good thing).  If there is space, then perhaps you're about to miss a hookset, and some pivot action would help.  

If I miss a hookset because I couldn't budge the bait in the bass' mouth well enough to penetrate, then that's a technique/equipment issue, regardless of the knot.

It's the theory of using straight shank hooks because on hook set the force is in a straight line with the hook point?

Why ya wanna change it?

I disagree.  The advantage with a straight shank is that the point is NOT in a straight line with the pull point (parallel, yes; in line, no).  Using a snell knot maximizes this benefit, even without a weight.  Pulling from the shank rather than the eye encourages the shank to follow the line, increasing your odds of exposing the full bite of the hook (and any pivot-action would add to this effect).

Snell knots are popular with turned-up eye hooks, in part because of how attaching to the shank improves the line of pull relative to the hook point.  Picture a flipping hook, rigged straight with plastic and hanging vertically.  The hook shank and point are not parallel to the line.  Under force, a snell knot helps correct this.  Tying to the eye does not.  

 

7 hours ago, WRB said:

It's mute discussion, those who are believers willing to pay $2+ for a Eagle Claw Tokar hook, $5+ for a tungsten weight plus skirt and trailer are invested in this rig.

Tom

Expensive hooks and weights aren't an investment in the snell knot.  The same allegedly faulty logic can be applied to cheap hooks and lead, just like Trokars and tungsten can handle palomars.  

[WRB]

The original question was about the Tokar hook having too short an area between the rebarb keeper and hook eye to effectively tie a snell knot. With 25 mono or FC leader you need 6 turns for the snell knot to hold, 5 is marginal and the space is too short to easily tie this on Tokar hook. Using FC line the Palomar knot is about 75% knot strength, SD jam has better knot strength around 85-90%, all 3 are marginal knots tying braid and all good knots with mono/ coploy line.

Cheaper straight shank hooks without welded eyes cut the line when using a snell knot, that is the reason a snell knot hook has a turned down eye. Welded eye punching hooks are more expensive, Tokar being the highest fresh water priced hook on the market and their prices have come down.

Try offering the OP some useful solution to his question.

Tom

[fissure_man]

From the original post:

 " If I can't snell them do u think it will affect my hook up ratio? "

Clearly some debate on this topic still exists.  Is it closed to discussion?

Regarding the rest of his question, it seemed like it had been answered pretty unanimously.  Those flipping hooks were designed to accommodate a snell knot, so yes, it works.  Admittedly, I haven't tried using 25+ lb mono or flouro on a Trokar so I'll trust your guidance on that.  When I tie on a hook like that I'm using 50 or 65 lb test braid and have experienced no problems with running out of space.

 

[Oklahoma Mike]

I'm surprised at the number of comments in here regarding the difficulty of tying a snell knot. I find it one of the easiest and fastest knots to tie, second only to a palomar but not by much.

I'm also surprised that people are so passionate about this topic; I'd have never guessed this would have turned into such a spirited debate! I've seen plenty of responses from those like myself championing the snell and laying out the benefits. I've seen plenty of responses on here from posters who are using a palomar (or whatever other knot) with no problems and as such are not inclined to make a change. And that's cool - everyone should find his own preference and do what makes him comfortable. 

What I haven't heard in this thread is the disadvantages of the snell knot. So for those who feel so strongly about not snelling, I'd be very interested to hear what you think are the cons.

[Catt]

1 hour ago, Oklahoma Mike said:

What I haven't heard in this thread is the disadvantages of the snell knot. So for those who feel so strongly about not snelling, I'd be very interested to hear what you think are the cons.

I don't think the snell is in any way a disadvantage!

I also don't think there is an advantage!

My hookup ratio with Texas Rigs (yes a punch rig is a t-rig on steroids) & Jigs is in the upper 90 percentile range.

If ya think it gives an advantage then by all means tie it.

As to the OP, I tied a Snell knot on all the hooks below with the smallest being a 3/0.

As to not using a Snell knot affecting you hookup ratio no it will not!

[Mike L]

 

11 hours ago, Oklahoma Mike said:

I'm surprised at the number of comments in here regarding the difficulty of tying a snell knot. I find it one of the easiest and fastest knots to tie, second only to a palomar but not by much.

I'm also surprised that people are so passionate about this topic; I'd have never guessed this would have turned into such a spirited debate! I've seen plenty of responses from those like myself championing the snell and laying out the benefits. I've seen plenty of responses on here from posters who are using a palomar (or whatever other knot) with no problems and as such are not inclined to make a change. And that's cool - everyone should find his own preference and do what makes him comfortable. 

What I haven't heard in this thread is the disadvantages of the snell knot. So for those who feel so strongly about not snelling, I'd be very interested to hear what you think are the cons.

I am one of those guys on here who love's to punch. I'd rather punch than do anything else. In tournaments having no say in where we go, I always try to encourage my boater to try a few especially if either of us are struggling. Believe me it has saved our butt's more than once.

 After reading OK Mike's question I sat for minute trying to think of any reason, condition or senario to not tie a snell and not to use a Trokar hook in unison...I honestly can't think of one reason. 

I tie a snell when punching because it hold's, is easy to tie and I am convinced it has increased my hook ratio. 

I use Trokars BECAUSE of the sharpness, the hook keeper and the room it gives me to tie a snell up to and including 80# braid. 

I don't care about the science behind it, I'm not as smart as some of these guys so when a discussion gets to this point I just read and move on. 

Use what you have confidence in and what you have proven to YOURSELF what works for you. 

 

Mike 

 

[Catt]

35 minutes ago, Mike L said:

Use what you have confidence in and what you have proven to YOURSELF what works for you. 

 

Mike 

 

Merci Beaucoup.

[gardnerjigman]

15 hours ago, WRB said:

 Using FC line the Palomar knot is about 75% knot strength, SD jam has better knot strength around 85-90%, all 3 are marginal knots tying braid and 

Marginal??? 

[WRB]

11 minutes ago, gardnerjigman said:

Marginal??? 

Yes for braid unless you use double knots braid tends to slip due to coating used to lubricate most super braids.

Tom

[gardnerjigman]

54 minutes ago, WRB said:

Yes for braid unless you use double knots braid tends to slip due to coating used to lubricate most super braids.

Tom

Gotcha, totally agree.