Trokar flipping hook

[TxHawgs]

I picked up some Trokar flipping hooks and it looks like there's no room to snell these. Anyone else using them? If I can't snell them do u think it will affect my hook up ratio?

[Catt]

50 minutes ago, TxHawgs said:

 If I can't snell them do u think it will affect my hook up ratio?

Absolutely not!

I quit snelling my hooks cause I saw no increase in hookup ratio!

[ErikmonBillsfon]

Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP

[Oklahoma Mike]

The Trokar "Monster" hook? There should be plenty of room there for tying a snell knot between the bait-keeper and the eye. If not, can you post a pic of the hook you're using?

I disagree with Catt - I do believe that using a snell knot here will improve your hookup ratio. 

[Airman4754]

There is plenty of room and a Snell will increase your hookup ratio, it's simple physics. 

[TxHawgs]

33 minutes ago, Oklahoma Mike said:

The Trokar "Monster" hook? There should be plenty of room there for tying a snell knot between the bait-keeper and the eye. If not, can you post a pic of the hook you're using?

I disagree with Catt - I do believe that using a snell knot here will improve your 

[gardnerjigman]

44 minutes ago, ErikmonBillsfon said:

Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP

I don't like the Trokar for flipping because they are too sharp. They pull through on water willows and other thick stuff and snag up. Hack attack for me. 

[TxHawgs]

18 minutes ago, gardnerjigman said:

I don't like the Trokar for flipping because they are too sharp. They pull through on water willows and other thick stuff and snag up. Hack attack for me. 

I have had these for a while in one of my terminal boxes. I must have a 100 of em between the 4 and 5/0. So i either want to use them or sell them. These Mustads are comin tomorrow, they look like what I will be sticking with, this and the monster 3x hook they make.

[Catt]

The selling point of using a snelled knot is the hook will lever or pivot in the bass's mouth on hook set.

Do y'all actually believe your setting hook hard enough to cause this to take place in 4, 5, 6 lb or larger bass's mouth?

It is also stated you'll have the hook penetrate the roof of the bass's mouth with a snelled hook, I do that now with a Palomar knot.

I really don't like Trokar flipping hooks because the plastic keeper tears up the lure.

[Oklahoma Mike]

19 minutes ago, TxHawgs said:

There is room there for your snell knot. It all happens between the eye and the top of the bait-keeper. 

[Montanaro]

24 minutes ago, Catt said:

The selling point of using a snelled knot is the hook will lever or pivot in the bass's mouth on hook set.

Do y'all actually believe your setting hook hard enough to cause this to take place in 4, 5, 6 lb or larger bass's mouth?

It is also stated you'll have the hook penetrate the roof of the bass's mouth with a snelled hook, I do that now with a Palomar knot.

I really don't like Trokar flipping hooks because the plastic keeper tears up the lure.

A small weight is enough to get the hook to pivot.

And if it doesnt in one instance you have same hook up chance as any other knot.  Ive hooked many bass through roof of mouth with snell knot that were hooked in corner of mouth with SDJ.

[Catt]

Think about this for a minute!

Close your mouth & tell yourself how much distance there is from the roof of your mouth to your tongue. 

Now imagine a 5-6# bass just inhaled your lure thinking it's food. Do you think she will lightly clamp down on it or will she clamp down with enough force to ensure it will not escape?

Do ya really believe your lure is gonna pivot in that bass's mouth?

The things nonbelievers have to believe in order to remain nonbelievers amazes me!

[Tim Kelly]

I don't believe the snelling thing either, also I don't like the bait pivoting when you're jigging it up and down, much rather have the weight pegged with a peg-it a couple of thou away from the bait as I found that kept the bait from being bashed by the weight, so it lasts longer, and the the whole bait stays streamlined. Works in my mind, the snelled bobber stop version works for others, so I don't believe it makes any practical differences, so fish however your comfortable!

[RichF]

Been using the Palomar for years with zero problems.  The snell is just a pain to get it perfect and I'm not "sold" on its effect enough to take the time to use it.

[TxHawgs]

I did read that the Mustads I ordered can be snelled. So I will try both knots Palomar and Snell and see if there's a difference for me. I have some Havoc craw fatty's and Pit boss's but ordered some D bombs finally and can't wait to pitch those this Thursday. 

[Oklahoma Mike]

 

 

 

 

^^^Just wanted to add a couple more to the many experts already on this thread 

[Mike L]

Been useing the 4/0 or 5/0 TK 130 with a snell for punching matt's for a few years now and really don't have a problem with tying the knot or hook up's.

When I do miss a fish, I really can't attribute it to either one. I just blame myself for not paying closer attention. Maybe I need to pay closer attention to the actual reason. 

 

Mike 

[fissure_man]

10 hours ago, Catt said:

Think about this for a minute!

Close your mouth & tell yourself how much distance there is from the roof of your mouth to your tongue. 

Now imagine a 5-6# bass just inhaled your lure thinking it's food. Do you think she will lightly clamp down on it or will she clamp down with enough force to ensure it will not escape?

Do ya really believe your lure is gonna pivot in that bass's mouth?

The things nonbelievers have to believe in order to remain nonbelievers amazes me!

If this applied to every hook set, no one would ever miss a fish!

Obviously there are occasions where a sharp hook point manages to escape the bass' mouth without hitting any meat.  That tells me there was at least a little space around it.  Perhaps a bit of pivot action would have put that hook point in a better position to hook up.  We're not talking about prying the bass' mouth open, just closing the gap if a bit of "space" does appear.  That space could come from the bass opening its mouth when it decides not to swallow 1.5 oz + plastic, or when that same big weight is popped violently out of its mouth.

There are a lot of great flippers that swear by the pivot; and I don't think any of them have a knot sponsor

At best, the improvement is small.  But the downsides are miniscule - the snell is plenty strong and it's a cinch to tie (  )

[RyneB]

I have never had a problem with room to snell a knot with a trokar flipping hook

[Catt]

2 hours ago, fissure_man said:

There are a lot of great flippers that swear by the pivot; and I don't think any of them have a knot sponsor

At best, the improvement is small.  (  )

There are many more great flippers who do not use it than ones that do!

If the improvement is small why spend the additional time required to tie it?

I can tie a Palomar knot by the light of a full Moon! 

Well with the aid of my reading glasses

[WRB]

Most anglers using this type of hook rig them for punching using pegged heavy bullet weights with 25 lb+ line. The snell knot doesn't help the hook cam outward with enough force to overcome pressure of a big bass flattening the hook over sideways when crunches the soft plastic. The assumption is the bass always strikes facing directly towards the hook point and your are hook setting vertically.

If you believe it helps...it helps!

Tom

[fissure_man]

14 minutes ago, Catt said:

There are many more great flippers who do not use it than ones that do!

If the improvement is small why spend the additional time required to tie it?

I can tie a Palomar knot by the light of a full Moon! 

Well with the aid of my reading glasses

Those guys' eyes must be too old to tie it too! ( I jest )

But really, it's not a super hard knot to tie, at least not the version I'm familiar with.  Check out the Ike video posted above.  If you can get past the kindergarten tone ( I jest again ), he does do a good knot demo.  He's talking through it super slow and it takes about 30-40 seconds.  In reality it would be half that time.  

If we're talking heavy braid around weeds (punching), I won't be retying THAT many times through the day, and it won't take much improvement in hookup % to justify the extra time.

If there was actually some reasonable way to prove that it made a difference, what percent improvement would it take to make someone switch?  I'd guess for the typical person reading this site it wouldn't take much.  Knots are free.

(hmm... maybe we need to ask Ike where the 20% figure came from in his video lol)

 

14 minutes ago, WRB said:

Most anglers using this type of hook rig them for punching using pegged heavy bullet weights and the snell knot doesn't help the hook cam outward with enough force to overcome pressure of a big bass flattening the hook over sideways when crunches the soft plastic. The assumption is the bass always strikes facing directly towards the hook point and your are hook setting vertically.

If you believe it helps...it helps!

Tom

Even if the hook is sideways, wouldn't an increase in the hook's "effective bite" (due to pivoting) still be a benefit?  There's stuff to hook on the sides of the mouth too

I think a possible flaw with the pivot theory that I haven't seen mentioned is this:

The outward cam action can (in theory) push the hook point away from the line of pull, improving (in theory) the likelihood of grabbing some flesh.  But at the same time it causes the hook point to no longer lie parallel to the line of pull, which would decrease the efficiency of penetration (is it like setting the hook with a circle hook?).

In summary, none of this matters.  Or does it?

 

 

 

[Bluebasser86]

19 hours ago, ErikmonBillsfon said:

Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP

This is the exact problem that I've seen with them. If the hook point is exposed at all, it will slice through the plastic and start catching on everything and quickly wallows out a big hole in the plastic, sometimes without even catching a fish.

 

I've never bothered snelling a hook and never will until I start having a hard time hooking fish while I'm flipping.  Not saying it doesn't maybe catch an extra fish or two when the stars align and the perfect textbook situation plays out, but I'm happy with my results and a Palomar is a lot faster to tie. 

[gobig]

I think snelling makes a difference. I also think that the trokars are the sharpest hook on the market. People new to punching will hook fish that they never knew were biting. They do however hang up in thick cover because they are so sharp and you will go through more baits. 

[Catt]

8 hours ago, fissure_man said:

Those guys' eyes must be too old to tie it too! ( I jest )

But really, it's not a super hard knot to tie, at least not the version I'm familiar with.  Check out the Ike video posted above.  If you can get past the kindergarten tone ( I jest again ), he does do a good knot demo.  He's talking through it super slow and it takes about 30-40 seconds.  In reality it would be half that time.  

If we're talking heavy braid around weeds (punching), I won't be retying THAT many times through the day, and it won't take much improvement in hookup % to justify the extra time.

If there was actually some reasonable way to prove that it made a difference, what percent improvement would it take to make someone switch?  I'd guess for the typical person reading this site it wouldn't take much.  Knots are free.

(hmm... maybe we need to ask Ike where the 20% figure came from in his video lol)

 

Even if the hook is sideways, wouldn't an increase in the hook's "effective bite" (due to pivoting) still be a benefit?  There's stuff to hook on the sides of the mouth too

I think a possible flaw with the pivot theory that I haven't seen mentioned is this:

The outward cam action can (in theory) push the hook point away from the line of pull, improving (in theory) the likelihood of grabbing some flesh.  But at the same time it causes the hook point to no longer lie parallel to the line of pull, which would decrease the efficiency of penetration (is it like setting the hook with a circle hook?).

In summary, none of this matters.  Or does it?

 

 

 

There are so many flaws with this "pivoting" theory that no one fully answers.

When demonstrated on videos the anglers holds the weight between their thumb & forefinger, pulls the line showing the hook pivoting. But in most all videos I've seen the weight aint pegged! Aint the reason for pegging to keep the weight in place? Would this mean the line aint sliding? 

No one has fully addressed how this "pivoting" take place in a closed mouth!

Y'all gonna tell me ya never set hook, fought a bass only to have it simply open it's mouth & your lure fly out!

It's the theory of using straight shank hooks because on hook set the force is in a straight line with the hook point?

Why ya wanna change it?