How much do nylon lines really stretch?

[SNK]

People worry or talk about nylon type lines and the "stretching" factor of mono, fluoro, co-poly, but how much do they really stretch when you have a 1lb fish, 5 lb, or 9lb fish on the line, is it inches or is calculated in feet? And is it really enough to adversely affect you catching the fish? For instance, does it truly stretch so much that it would affect your hookset on a jig to the point that the hook does not penetrate enough.

Personally, I only use mono or co-poly for my moving baits and fluoro and braid for contact baits, but this question about line stretching has intrigued me for awhile now. 

[buzzed bait]

awesome little thread right here from @FryDog62 it should answer your questions....

 

[Raul]

4 hours ago, SNK said:

 is it really enough to adversely affect you catching the fish?

No

4 hours ago, SNK said:

For instance, does it truly stretch so much that it would affect your hookset on a jig to the point that the hook does not penetrate enough.

No

 

[Red Bear]

2 hours ago, buzzed bait said:

awesome little thread right here from @FryDog62 it should answer your questions....

 

i dont see how this is an accurate test though. seems like lots of variables are left out...an actual hookset is not comparable to hanging an 8lb weight from fishing line either...

[Scott F]

15 minutes ago, Raul said:

No

No

 

There are differing opinions on this. Several years ago, a book was written that tested how deep 200 different lures actually ran. During the testing, they trolled lures behind a boat and used a second boat with a depth finder over the trolled lure to record the depth. When they used lighter mono lines (braided lines hadn't been invented yet!) they could see fish hit the lure on the depth finder but the guy holding the rod, almost never felt the strike. When they used thicker lines, 17 pound, that stretched less than the 10 pound line, more of the strikes were felt.

Another thing, why do fishermen need to use huge sweeping hook sets when using mono but not when using braid?

in my opinion, the stretch of nylon lines, effects your ability to get good hook sets

[Raul]

1 minute ago, Scott F said:

braided lines hadn't been invented yet!)

Braided lines were invented before monofilament.

[Scott F]

Just now, Raul said:

Braided lines were invented before monofilament.

OK, superlines like those used today had not been invented yet. Dacron and older lines were not often used for walleye fishing during the period when the book was written and were not part of the tests.

[blckshirt98]

Amount of stretch will also depend on how much line you have out.  I only really use mono for trout but the stretch for me has always been a few inches using 2# or 4# mono but then again I'm not casting too far out for trout, and, it depends on how heavy I have my drag set.  The stretch is really noticeable when trying to get a snag out.  As long as your drag is locked down tight enough you shouldn't have an issue with the stretch causing your hookset not to penetrate.

[buzzed bait]

1 hour ago, Red Bear said:

i dont see how this is an accurate test though. seems like lots of variables are left out...an actual hookset is not comparable to hanging an 8lb weight from fishing line either...

i'd say that given what he laid out, it's pretty darn accurate, but as he said, he's no scientist.  he took the controlled variables that were available to him and published his findings, which answer exactly what the OP had asked.  i agree that it might not compare to a hookset, but i'd also argue that my hookset doesn't compare to yours and vice versa.... my equipment, drag, hook, etc. don't compare exactly to yours and so on and so on.  

[Red Bear]

28 minutes ago, buzzed bait said:

i'd say that given what he laid out, it's pretty darn accurate, but as he said, he's no scientist.  he took the controlled variables that were available to him and published his findings, which answer exactly what the OP had asked.  i agree that it might not compare to a hookset, but i'd also argue that my hookset doesn't compare to yours and vice versa.... my equipment, drag, hook, etc. don't compare exactly to yours and so on and so on.  

you actually list many of the reasons(i bolded) as to why i dont think its an accurate test, too many variables missing for me to even think its remotely accurate. you actually help my argument with that post. in addition to those, dead hanging a weight isnt the same as a hookset that would jerk on the weight and move it forward. a hookset is a swift motion, takes like a second or two, how long did that weight hang there on the line during testing? and how many people are actually setting the hook into 8lb bass on the regular? etc etc etc...

[IndianaFinesse]

20 minutes ago, Red Bear said:

you actually list many of the reasons(i bolded) as to why i dont think its an accurate test, too many variables missing for me to even think its remotely accurate. you actually help my argument with that post. in addition to those, dead hanging a weight isnt the same as a hookset that would jerk on the weight and move it forward. a hookset is a swift motion, takes like a second or two, how long did that weight hang there on the line during testing? and how many people are actually setting the hook into 8lb bass on the regular? etc etc etc...

Do you have any suggestions on how to do it better, or are you just going to complain about its supposed lack of accuracy?

[Red Bear]

15 minutes ago, IndianaFinesse said:

Do you have any suggestions on how to do it better, or are you just going to complain about its supposed lack of accuracy?

yeah, account for all of the missing variables...

also, you see it as complaining for some reason, i see it as me simply disagreeing with the method used...

[IndianaFinesse]

4 minutes ago, Red Bear said:

yeah, account for all of the missing variables...

also, you see it as complaining for some reason, i see it as me simply disagreeing with the method used...

Well, then set up your own tests.  He did as well as he could with out fancy equipment, but you are right in saying that it is impossible to actually test it in real life circumstances but he got about as close as realistically possible.  

[buzzed bait]

1 hour ago, Red Bear said:

you actually list many of the reasons(i bolded) as to why i dont think its an accurate test, too many variables missing for me to even think its remotely accurate. you actually help my argument with that post. in addition to those, dead hanging a weight isnt the same as a hookset that would jerk on the weight and move it forward. a hookset is a swift motion, takes like a second or two, how long did that weight hang there on the line during testing? and how many people are actually setting the hook into 8lb bass on the regular? etc etc etc...

i hear ya.... and agreed with you!

oddly enough, FryDog does his samples like the "pros" do over on TT....  with controlled variables (the way most legitimate "scientific" studies would be done)

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html

 

[Catt]

I've caught 33 double digit bass on mono & 27 were at depths below 15'!

So it's my opinion mono does not effect hook set!

[Scott F]

12 minutes ago, Catt said:

I've caught 33 double digit bass on mono & 27 were at depths below 15'!

So it's my opinion mono does not effect hook set!

Nobody said you can't get a good hookset with mono but the stretch does have an effect. The lack of stretch in braid also has a different effect. As long as you make the adjustment, to accommodate for the stretch or lack of stretch you can land your catch.  Most everyone learned using mono so you don't think about it. When you switched to a braided line, you should have had to adjust. Guys who use the same hookset with braid as they do mono tend to rip lips.

[Team9nine]

8 hours ago, SNK said:

People worry or talk about nylon type lines and the "stretching" factor of mono, fluoro, co-poly, but how much do they really stretch when you have a 1lb fish, 5 lb, or 9lb fish on the line, is it inches or is calculated in feet? And is it really enough to adversely affect you catching the fish? For instance, does it truly stretch so much that it would affect your hookset on a jig to the point that the hook does not penetrate enough.

Most all these tests have been done and documented. The short answer is yes, it does affect your hook set...but there are variables. I don't have a ton of time to go into details at the moment, but keep 30 ft in mind as the magic number. The majority of the differences lie in distance to your bait upon hook set, combined with the overall diameter of your line (i.e., heavy vs light). At 30', everything is about equal. Less than 30 ft., heavy line will get you a better hook set. Over 30 ft, and lighter line will get you a better hook set. There will be some stretch at all distances, but slack in the line also plays a part as you rarely have a true straight line connection to your bait. At 100 ft vs. 20 ft., hook setting power is halved for lighter line. But for heavier line at the same distances, it is cut down to about 1/3. Proper hook-setting technique, as Catt has alluded to in other threads, can make a big difference in how much force is actually generated. Keep in mind this is all in regards to nylon lines.

-T9 

[roadwarrior]

7 hours ago, buzzed bait said:

awesome little thread right here from @FryDog62 it should answer your questions....

Pretty strong argument for at least giving Yo-Zuri Hybrid a shot.

 

[Catt]

2 hours ago, Scott F said:

Nobody said you can't get a good hookset with mono but the stretch does have an effect. The lack of stretch in braid also has a different effect. As long as you make the adjustment, to accommodate for the stretch or lack of stretch you can land your catch.  Most everyone learned using mono so you don't think about it. When you switched to a braided line, you should have had to adjust. Guys who use the same hookset with braid as they do mono tend to rip lips.

My question is what is the effect?

My hook up ratio is in the upper 90%

With that said I know guys with a hook up ratio of under 60% with braid.

I think it's like sensitivity, it depends on who is holding the rod.

[Cgrinder]

A lot.

Also I appreciate the work that Frydog puts in but I question the external validity of his studies, i.e. are we effectively measuring line stretch during normal fishing activities or simply line stretch under the conditions of the experiment?

[Scott F]

3 minutes ago, Catt said:

I think it's like sensitivity, it depends on who is holding the rod.

Exactly.  You've been fishing for so long that setting the hook with mono is second nature, you don't have to think about it. Guys who have the 60% hook up ratio with braid have not made the adjustments necessary to working with a line that does not stretch. I've been using braid for so long that if I went beck to mono, I'd have problems at first until I readjusted to the different characteristics of mono. The big difference is stretch. I don't put in nearly the number of hours on the water that many guys do so If I had some rods with braid, some with fluoro and some with mono, it would be hard for me to fish all of them effectively without enough practice to getting used the the different feel of each line. Those differences to me are the effects I was talking about.

[Catt]

21 minutes ago, Scott F said:

Exactly.  You've been fishing for so long that setting the hook with mono is second nature, you don't have to think about it. Guys who have the 60% hook up ratio with braid have not made the adjustments necessary to working with a line that does not stretch. I've been using braid for so long that if I went beck to mono, I'd have problems at first until I readjusted to the different characteristics of mono. The big difference is stretch. I don't put in nearly the number of hours on the water that many guys do so If I had some rods with braid, some with fluoro and some with mono, it would be hard for me to fish all of them effectively without enough practice to getting used the the different feel of each line. Those differences to me are the effects I was talking about.

That's why I tell my students to pick one & stick with it until the grain experience enough to try others. I think trying to master all 3 for a novice is an exercise in futility!

I do have one rod with fluorocarbon & one with braid & everything else is mono. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Mono, co-poly and braid will all catch fish with regularity. Each has pluses and minuses and requires its own technique. Only hands on experience can teach you your personal preference. All we can do is share opinions. I like Catts idea of focusing on one at a time. 

[buzzed bait]

3 hours ago, Cgrinder said:

A lot.

Also I appreciate the work that Frydog puts in but I question the external validity of his studies, i.e. are we effectively measuring line stretch during normal fishing activities or simply line stretch under the conditions of the experiment?

i get what you're saying, but i can't logically think of another way you'd do this under those "normal fishing conditions" when there is no such thing as normal fishing conditions.  

it's much like the miles per gallon rating in the window of a new vehicle.  they didn't test every single possible way the car would be driven, on every road, with every driver, with every tire, with rain/snow/wind, etc etc etc.  they took a controlled study and put every vehicle on the same playing field, same as frydog's study.  i think he's about as close as one can get to answering the op's questions about stretch with his experiment.

[Josh Smith]

Is it December again?