Struggling to learn to run a casting rod

[fishwizzard]

Hi,

Maybe 90-95% of the time I fish with a spinning set up and am becoming proficient enough with it that I want to start working on my admittedly pitiful casting rig skills.  My only casting set up is a Lew's BB1 Inshore spooled with 20lb PP on a  6'6" M/FAub Vendetta rod.  I am having an issue finding a lure that casts well with it.  It is rated 1/4-5/8, but I am having trouble with everything in and around that range.  Yesterday I took it out and started with a 3/8 Chatterbait w/ trailer tied on.  This should weight around 5/8 to 3/4 and should be right at the upper limit.  However, while the tip does load, I can't get any distance or accuracy and really struggle to cast it one handed.  Any line release other then a mortar shot ends up with the lure slamming down 15-20' out from the bank unless I use a silly amount of force.   One the other end, a weightless 5" senko, which weighs around 3/8oz, seems like it will not load the tip at all and when I do get it cast out, I cannot feel the lure at all on the retrieve, so even doing a slow lift/drop retrieve is challenging.  Moving up to a 4.8" Fat Impact with 1/8oz on nail weights in it seems to be somewhat of a sweet spot, but I still cannot cast it as far as I can on my M spinning rod and with none of the accuracy. 

I clearly lack practice, but it feels like I am fighting the rod the entire time.  Can anyone comment on this specific rod and suggest a weight that might be good to start with?  I am worried that this rod just has a very stiff tip and maybe moving to a slightly softer rod will help me with casting. 

[buzzed bait]

for practice purposes, i'd invest in a 3/8oz or 1/2oz practice plug or use simply a 3/8oz or 1/2oz weight so that you exactly what it is and get proficient at that.  that's right around the middle of the rod's suggested weights and the consistency of that same weight should help you dial it in.  don't be afraid to do your practice in the yard, in the park, in the parking lot, etc.  i know my neighbors all think i'm some kind of fool for doing it in the yard from time to time, but frankly i couldn't care less!

[fishwizzard]

I tried using a plug in the yard, but found the casting reel to be super unforgiving when the lure hits the hard ground verses the water.  Every error caused a backlash and that was a bit too "tough love" for me.   The way I became even slightly proficient was to head to a local pier with a 3/8oz Kastmaster tied on so at least my mis-casts would hit water and give me a second to clamp my thumb down. 

My issue is getting the tip to load.  That was the thing that got spinning rig casting to "click" for me, once I learned to let the tip do the work I was able to quickly improve both distance and accuracy, with the added bonus of being able to make casts all day with no wrist fatigue. 

Now, going back to the casting rig, I am having trouble getting the tip to load as well as I can on even my cheaper spinning rods.

[new2BC4bass]

Abu rods normally run a bit heavier than listed.  However, your weights should be well within the rod's capability.  I take it you are using an overhead cast since you said the lure is slamming down 15-20 feet in front of you.  First I like to cast with two hands when possible.  Second I like a sidearm roll cast.  It helps to smooth out the cast and to keep the rod tip loaded.  20# braid is not what I would be learning on.  If I were going to use braid, I would use 40# to start off.  20# braid can dig in causing problems....not the least of which is snapping a lure off if the line suddenly stops.  There is a reason why people don't like to use braid with big and expensive lures.  I've snapped a 1/2 oz. jig off using 30# braid when the line wrapped around the tip.

Have you gone through the stickies on "How to cast a baitcaster"?  Lots of good information.  Also do a search as there are quite a few "How to Cast" threads.

[wnspain]

A lot of people have trouble with casting gear. I taught my son to cast sidearm and to control direction with that motion. IMO, it's the best for learning. Most people try directly over the top which tends to result in a poor cast if not proficient. Also, try a medium casting rod, should load easier.

 

[Fishin' Fool]

13 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

Abu rods normally run a bit heavier than listed.  However, your weights should be well within the rod's capability.  I take it you are using an overhead cast since you said the lure is slamming down 15-20 feet in front of you.  First I like to cast with two hands when possible.  Second I like a sidearm roll cast.  It helps to smooth out the cast and to keep the rod tip loaded.  20# braid is not what I would be learning on.  If I were going to use braid, I would use 40# to start off.  20# braid can dig in causing problems....not the least of which is snapping a lure off if the line suddenly stops.  There is a reason why people don't like to use braid with big and expensive lures.  I've snapped a 1/2 oz. jig off using 30# braid when the line wrapped around the tip.

Have you gone through the stickies on "How to cast a baitcaster"?  Lots of good information.  Also do a search as there are quite a few "How to Cast" threads.

I was wondering about the braid comment too. Wouldn't it be easier to learn on maybe 15 pound mono?

[fishwizzard]

Sidearm is about the only way I can cast it at all, but my accuracy is somewhere between the broad and narrow side of a barn. 

I have read most of the sticked threads and watched a ton of videos, the issue seem that I cannot get my tip to load and flex unless I am using a heavy for rating lure and then I don't feel like the rod has enough power to make the cast without a ton of force on my part. 

Am I right in thinking that this rod should be able to cast a weightless 5" senko without issue? 

The issue about line is interesting.  I have a reel I could swap my 20lb braid on to and some 8lb YZ Hybrid on hand to switch too or any number of local stores that will load me up with heavy weight Power Pro. 

[.ghoti.]

Go with the YZ you have on hand. 6lb YZ is actually about 12lb strength so 8 would be around 14 or 15 pounds breaking strength. More than enough for bass fishing, and a lot easier to learn on, not to mention a lot cheaper when you backlash bad enough to require a knife.

[Yudo1]

I have no experience with the vendetta but have heard they are stiff but a rod of that rating should cast a senko without issue.  It sounds like you need to try a different rod and practice alot.  Are you setting up the reel properly?

[fishwizzard]

I believe I have the reel set up correctly and in any case I have fussed with all the breaks and tensioners from running them all the way open (backlash city) to running them all locked down (goodbye $6 lure now sailing into the distance when the knot popped). 

In a lot of the fishing videos I watch it really seems like guys are getting far more tip play then I am currently getting.  Can anyone recommend a M or MH rod under $100 that is known for a softer tip?  I do a bit of salt water trolling from my kayak and can use the current rod for that so I don't mind spending a little money before I retreat back to ML rods and finesse plastics. 

[new2BC4bass]

38 minutes ago, Bunnielab said:

Sidearm is about the only way I can cast it at all, but my accuracy is somewhere between the broad and narrow side of a barn. 

I have read most of the sticked threads and watched a ton of videos, the issue seem that I cannot get my tip to load and flex unless I am using a heavy for rating lure and then I don't feel like the rod has enough power to make the cast without a ton of force on my part. 

Am I right in thinking that this rod should be able to cast a weightless 5" senko without issue? 

The issue about line is interesting.  I have a reel I could swap my 20lb braid on to and some 8lb YZ Hybrid on hand to switch too or any number of local stores that will load me up with heavy weight Power Pro. 

When I moved from spinning reels to baitcast reels, I would have had to be inside the barn to hit the wall. 

Yes that rod should cast a weightless 5" Senko.  My only experience with Abu rods is a ML spinning rod and a MH casting rod.  Although I like the spinning rod, I wouldn't use lures on its low end rating.  The casting rod is rated 3/8 to 1-1/4 oz. and barely casts a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait a decent fishing distance.

[Josh Smith]

Dad used to practice by casting to the neighbor's small dog.

I used to practice by casting to my German Shepherd.

Broke the monotony!

Josh

[DogBone_384]

Did you follow Lews' setup instructions, or threads in this forum?  

When I learned baitcasters I found that smooth arcing casts rather than 'launch' casts worked best with the cast control set pretty tight and backed them off  as I got more comfortable. 

Baitcasters aren't hard to learn with practice.  Keep at it, and best of luck.

 

[Raul]

The truth man, you are not missing anything, there´s a bunch of class anglers in this forum ( Fish Chris & Snook to mention few ) that fish only with spinning gear. I do own a bunch of casting gear but since most of my fishing adventures take place from the bank the kind of gear I prefer is spinning, it does everything casting does and a few things more I can´t do with casting because I can´t or don´t have  enough room to swing the rod.

[buzzed bait]

23 minutes ago, Raul said:

The truth man, you are not missing anything, there´s a bunch of class anglers in this forum ( Fish Chris & Snook to mention few ) that fish only with spinning gear. I do own a bunch of casting gear but since most of my fishing adventures take place from the bank the kind of gear I prefer is spinning, it does everything casting does and a few things more I can´t do with casting because I can´t or don´t have  enough room to swing the rod.

Oye!  What was it you called me the other day......  oh yeah, CHICKEN!!  

[Raul]

2 minutes ago, buzzed bait said:

Oye!  What was it you called me the other day......  oh yeah, CHICKEN!!  

True, I did call you chicken ..... wanna know something -----> me too ! 

[fishwizzard]

I am pretty happy with spinning gear, but want to learn how to use casting gear just to do it.  When I can make a good cast, I enjoy it, it is just taking so much longer then becoming proficient with spinning tackle did, and not have confidence in my equitment is making it harder to know if something is actually amiss or I just need to suck it up and practice more.  It's just that even making false casts to check clearance don't feel as.....I don't know, smooth, natural, as my spinning rigs do.  Every lure I have tried either feels too light to load the tip or too heavy for the rod to cast well. 

It looks like my first step it to either switch my line out with 8lb Hybrid.....or 50lb braid. 

 

[Glenn]

 

[blckshirt98]

Try using a glass casting rod with your crankbaits/chatterbaits.  The rod tips are super soft and you should have no problems loading the rod properly.

[JRammit]

I had to start over on baitcasters... Had one stolen 10 years ago, just got a new one 6 months ago...... And its not like riding a bicycle!

Overhead casts are smoother for me... More range of motion and less "snappy"

I have 2 hands, so why not use em, its not a style contest (i wouldn't win anyway)

I read turning the reel sideways (on its axis) slows the spool down (reducing backlash), dont know if that's true, but a confidence booster none the less (try it)

Increasing distance is not step one... Just get the bait in the water... Over and over and over and over (and over)... Practice makes... You know the rest

Cast in the yard, pitch in the house... I can now put a T-rig in my wifes purse from the fridge in the kitchen 

Guess what it boiled down to for me was... Use the reel!... Find a "comfort cast", go out and fish!

[fishwizzard]

Went out to a pier after work to practice casting.  Ended up slamming a brand new YZ crankbait into the toe rail hard enough to break the bill and deform one of the hooks.  Other then that fine bit of casting, I again tried a weightless senko and a 3/8oz chatterbait, same results.  I can maybe get the Chatterbait 20' out using just my wrist and the senko a bit further.  I was aiming at a dock across from me, trying to land the lures directly between the ~10' spaced pilings.  I could ussualy do it, but I had no control where within that 10' the lure landed.  I went from keeping all the breaks wide open, which would cause a backlash when the lure began to drop, to locking them all down, which forced me to use both hands to even get it to the dock 20' away.

I also had a cheap M/F spinning rod with me, with it I can toss either bait about twice as far and could hit right next to a pilling almost every time, even though the chatterbait is too heavy for the rod.  

Admittedly I have not touched my casting rod since last fall, but I don't remember being this bad with it.  I have been fishing a ton since then, so I am assuredly just a lot better with my spinning rods, but I must have spent two hours throwing a 4.8" FI at those pilings and I can say I didn't make a singe cast that felt "right".  I wish I knew anyone else who fished so I could stick the rod in their hands to just make sure it is me.  

[Yudo1]

That just doesn't sound right.  I wonder if there is something wrong with your reel.  Have you tried something heavier than 3/8?  Struggling to cast 20' is odd.

[new2BC4bass]

Do you know anyone else that uses a baitcaster?  I'm assuming not.  I know you aren't the only guy from Maryland on this site.  Keep an eye open and maybe you can find another member that lives near you.  We are all willing to help whenever we can.  I've had two guys get in touch with me....one local and one with daughters in the area he visits.  Letting someone who is proficient with a baitcast reel try yours would eliminate whether or not something is wrong with your reel.  Might even have you casting like a pro...well....better anyway.    Takes time to get good with one.

[fishwizzard]

13 minutes ago, Yudo1 said:

That just doesn't sound right.  I wonder if there is something wrong with your reel.  Have you tried something heavier than 3/8?  Struggling to cast 20' is odd.

Yes, I have tried with a 3/8oz chatterbait with a trailer that should put the total weight close to 3/4oz.  The only way I can get distance is to emulate a civil war mortar and cast about as high as I need to go far, if that makes any sense.  

2 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

Do you know anyone else that uses a baitcaster?  I'm assuming not.  I know you aren't the only guy from Maryland on this site.  Keep an eye open and maybe you can find another member that lives near you.  We are all willing to help whenever we can.  I've had two guys get in touch with me....one local and one with daughters in the area he visits.  Letting someone who is proficient with a baitcast reel try yours would eliminate whether or not something is wrong with your reel.  Might even have you casting like a pro...well....better anyway.    Takes time to get good with one.

I am going to post a call for help in the MD thread, I have a healthy supply of good beer to offer up.  I suspect is just me needing practice, but seeing someone else make some good casts with my rig would confirm that.  

What is driving me crazy is that I remember being better with this rod last summer.  But I have put enough time in over the last few days that it would be coming back.  

[JRammit]

Speaking on accuracy... One thing i noticed (realized) on a BC, especially on a side arm cast... There is a small bit of centrifugal force applied by the reel

With a spinning reel, there is little to no resistance on the line coming off the spool... On a BC, the line must pull the spool in order to gain distance.. If the spool pulls back, even a tiny bit, it changes the flight path of the lure into an arch....... For a crude analogy, think of a teather ball.. The ball wants to go strait, but the rope and pole pull it into an arch

Same relationship between the spool and lure, on a much smaller scale.... To me it feels like the higher the brake setting, the greater the arch

How does this help??... Not sure, just an observation..... For me, i started thinking more about my let off and brake setting...... In the end, its all feel