Tacklemaking with Tech!

[DBatey]

thats nice

[.dsaavedra.]

that's a slick looking bait! hope it runs alright. it's gonna suck if it doesn't! after all, shaping the bait is only one part of the job, you still have to figure out the weighting! i've never made a lipless crankbait but i imagine weighting and weight placement are extremely important in this type of bait.

[NateFollmer]

Thanks! That's what I'm worried about. I tore an old lipless crank apart and I'm going to try and get the weight, hooks and line tie all in the exact same areas. I have a feeling I will have the most trouble with this lipless crank, but it will be worth it in the end I think as long as I keep the front wide and flat and the back thin, it should be ok... I hope It looks like the weight is always close to the front, on the bottom, but between the eye and the belly hook (so it will go right where the gill starts on the bottom).

[BobP]

Those are really neat models.  I'd be tempted to make a mold and do the production models from 16 lb foam, which would preserve some detail but would be the same density as "heavy balsa".  I've worked on some baits molded from Alumite.  It produces good detail but is too dense for good bait action on most floating baits unless you add lots of microballoons, which makes molding very difficult.  Of course on the lipless bait, floating is not really an issue. 

[NateFollmer]

Jerkbait! I used a different shader for each shot... I have more fun messing with shaders than anything:

[Vodkaman]

Nate, you have inspired me to do more work.

Just off to the cave to cut the baby sunfish (2.5").

Dave

[BIG M]

Nate,

The lipless baits are easy to build.   Put most of your ballast weight in the front 1/3 and place the line tie at the very back edge of the flat spot on the baits head.

You may have to fine tune the line tie but you want that bait to have a nose down attitude when swimming.   That's the basic formula I've used for my lipless baits and it works.   

You guys are starting to scare me with the computer models.   Vman what is the 2nd pic suppose to be, this red neck can't figure that one out.

[Vodkaman]

Nate,

You guys are starting to scare me with the computer models. Vman what is the 2nd pic suppose to be, this red neck can't figure that one out.

It is a new soft plastic swimbait I am working on. It is 2" long, with a paddle tail. Their is nothing out there in this style that is very small. I designed it chunky, so that it has enough substance to cast and carry a hook. Here is a pic of the master, but I haven't got around to molding it yet.

Dave

[NateFollmer]

Good stuff Dave!

Big M - Thanks for that info. The lipless crank is really the main one I wanted to make. I love them, they always seem to work Don't fear the computer models! I know I won't be able to carve both pieces symmetrical, so I gotta make these the only way I know how. Nothing will ever beat a hand carve though!

Whenever I get these babies made, I'll make sure you all get to try some

[BIG M]

I like the way that you and Vman use your skills to create baits.    I look forward to seeing the finished bait.   

Vman, that's going to be cool little swim bait.   

[Fishwhittler]

All these computer models look very, very good.  When are you going to start building them?

Have you considered molding the baits?  That could be the best way to get the scales/fins/gills etc. on some of these, because if you make them out of wood, you could run into problems with sealing while still retaining the details.  I don't know how well this would work because I haven't done anything like what you're doing, but it might be worth looking into.

[NateFollmer]

I thought about using foam, but I'm going to try some woods first and see how well they do. I cut back on the detailing because of this. When I absolutely know I am going to mold the baits, then I'll go nuts with details. The way I sculpt and work, it's easier to add details later on than it is to remove them. The wake bait design (first one posted) is probably going to lose it's lines and I'll just have to paint them. I don't think something that small is going to hold through wood

[BIG M]

I would suggest you look into PVC board as a material for your baits.   It will save you the extra work of sealing the baits.   You will be able to test your baits faster and without worry water getting to the wood.   I personally do not have much experience with this material but several guys on this board do.

[Vodkaman]

The ideal with computer modelling hardbait bodies, is to have access to a rapid prototype machine. 'Print' off the master and make a mold.

At the moment, I do not have such access, but still looking. I do the 3D CAD thing so I can see what the final lure looks like. Then I print off a few profiles and make a master for the duplicator machine (by hand). The above sunfish body is done, just waiting for the epoxy to harden. Should be able to cut a few bodies in 24 hours, testing proto's in 2 - 3 days. It looks very neat, nice shape.

Another advantage is that I can scale up to another length in minutes. I can even tweak the depth down a tad, if the longer version gets too deep in body.

Once the 'sunfish' body is modelled, I have an infinite size range available, so if someone requests a particular size, the design work is done.

I am currently building up a library of masters, so I could decide to sell bodies in the future or go the finished lure route. Not decided yet.

Dave

[NateFollmer]

I would suggest you look into PVC board as a material for your baits. It will save you the extra work of sealing the baits. You will be able to test your baits faster and without worry water getting to the wood. I personally do not have much experience with this material but several guys on this board do.

Way ahead of you If I pour, it's going to be foam. If not, it's all going to be wood and PVC. Looking into getting PVC scraps now! All my designs are done. I need to split these in half and get them sent to the machinist and I should have 'masters' soon!

[.dsaavedra.]

i want to say that it might be helpful to incorporate the lip slots in your computer generated models, but i'm not sure if these would transfer when you go to make your copies on the duplicator machine. if you were just making molds of the computer generated models then you should think about going ahead and putting the lip slot in the models so you don't have to cut it yourself later.

just something to think about

[NateFollmer]

i want to say that it might be helpful to incorporate the lip slots in your computer generated models, but i'm not sure if these would transfer when you go to make your copies on the duplicator machine. if you were just making molds of the computer generated models then you should think about going ahead and putting the lip slot in the models so you don't have to cut it yourself later.

just something to think about

The masters will be cut in two halves. I was going to cut the lip slot into the master after it was done. It's kind of hard to model something organic like that, then give it a hard cut off edge like that. I could do it, but for all the work I'd have in getting the lip edge modeled in, it would be easier to cut the master later Has do to with the flow of the polygon edges and stuff... boring, so I'll stop my rant here haha

[Captain Obvious]

Is it possible to make a foam lure with a lip? I thought foam lures where more like pre-made wood bodies that had you add the hardware after the fact?

How does foam float? does it make good crank baits?

[NateFollmer]

Is it possible to make a foam lure with a lip? I thought foam lures where more like pre-made wood bodies that had you add the hardware after the fact?

How does foam float? does it make good crank baits?

The way I see it done with foam is by pouring it into molds and letting it set up. I always thought it was a block and you carved it. They say the 16 lb foam is similar to balsa in both buoyancy and durability. Some say the action isn't as good though. I'm not sure though so maybe others can answer better.

[BIG M]

Nate,   Have you built any prototypes of the baits?   

[Vodkaman]

Action has nothing to do with material choice. If two materials have the same density and used to make two identical lures, they will both swim identical.

Given two identical lures, but one using a denser material than the other. The lighter material will make a livelier action than the denser. You cannot say that one is better than the other, it all depends what action you are looking for.

Dave

[whittler]

I'm with Marty on this, do you have any prototypes? Computer design will only take you so far then you have to put something in the water. Weighting and balance on a lipless is critical to get the correct action. From my point of view making a few prototypes to get hardware placement, weighting and the basic shape correct and the action you want, then go to the computer to refine the whole package.

On my bench I have a dozen foam baits which were sent to me from 2 different guys to see if I can make them work. A couple very pretty baits but both molded in the lip slot and did not use any ballast weight which it must be drilled and installed after molding, a waste of time. The lip slot could be filled in and recut correctly all these modifications sort of defeat the purpose of the molding process.

PVC, is a great material to use for protypes. Unlike a wood bait you can cut the basic shapes, install hardware, ballast and lips without having to seal it which makes testing prototypes much faster.

[Vodkaman]

I'm with Marty on this, do you have any prototypes? Computer design will only take you so far then you have to put something in the water. Weighting and balance on a lipless is critical to get the correct action. From my point of view making a few prototypes to get hardware placement, weighting and the basic shape correct and the action you want, then go to the computer to refine the whole package.

Absolutely. But it is pointless prototyping in a material different to your production, they will never balance or swim the same. You have to make a mold and cast a dozen bodies for testing. The body shape generally doesn't need to be proven, as long as the shape is reasonable, it can be made to swim. Fixing the lip position and angle before prototyping is cutting down your options for testing, but again, as long as it is reasonable, a solution can be found. If the mold is made with an over sized lip, then you still have the variables of lip size and shape.

Once the solution is found, the mold is modified or a new mold made (several), incorporating the lip, ballast and harness. Jigs made for making the harness and a lead mold made to fix the ballast onto the harness. This way, the lure should be repeatable.

Dave

[BIG M]

Vman, your point is valid but for me personally I would not want to be modifying the molds very often.

You could figure out all of the variables on a couple of prototypes and save time and cost on building molds.   

[NateFollmer]

I'm going up to cut my master's (templates if you will) Monday night. The PVC should be here sometime next week, but I have a lot of wood to play around with. Not going to get into molds or anything yet, just going to use the replicator for now. I'll document the master making process and post pics then! I don't think I can test the masters though, they will probably be corian or a similar material and will probably sink like a rock... If he isn't busy, maybe I'll just cut a few out of wood to and test those before I waste my time on the replicator...